Midwest Tactical Inc Sold me a BROKE BAD STEN and will NOT FIX or TAKE it BACK!

[22eley]

Called MIKE at Midwest-GUNSPOT and told him the Sten they sent me, i had to take a Wood rod and Beat the bolt out of the back of the Receiver to get it out? and the ONLY way you get it BACK together is to take the Nylon hammer and use it and beat it back it! ( once all the way in its runs ok) its sticks at the REAR? but the rear cap and spring dont. he said i will get back with you we will stand behind it, week later Nothing! called again, i will talk to the guys. nothing called again, left message, my guy is off? then he did call and said gun ran fine  i'm sure it did as long as you don't take it apart i told him. and he then said we took it apart and it was just fine ( YEA RIGHT) so now they working on a Phone fix! they got MY MONEY and SCREW ME and i GOT A piece of TRASH, and i got a MG i'm AFRAID to SHOOT and never will. john

Edited August 3, 2023 by 22eley
Cant Pell

[johnsonlmg41]

If you want to sell it let me know.

[22eley]

GOT to go see  my LAWYER 1st and tell him and did not even get a REACH AROUND ( offered a PHONE repair NO TAKE BACK or replacement ) i can't wait! 

Edited August 2, 2023 by 22eley

[Got Uzi]

I’d be curious to see it in person and look it over. Possible it was damaged in shipping?

[StrangeRanger]

The only thing that would be likely cause the issue you are describing is if the rear end of the receiver were somehow bent out of round.  Given that the tube is welded inside the collar atop the trigger housing and supported by the casing head it seems far too well reinforced to be damaged in shipment or handling.  Very strange. 

[22eley]

3 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

I’d be curious to see it in person and look it over. Possible it was damaged in shipping?

You would of thought with there 100% GUARANTEE they would have it Picked up or had me send it back instead of play Phone tag waiting for someone else to get back with ( MIKE ) i think they knew it was Bad and Found a Sucker ME!

[lonewolftactical]

If something is wrong with the gun and it won't disassemble correctly, why would you beat it apart, beat it back together, fire it and then call to complain.

The minute the gun wouldn't disassemble is when the call should have been made and photos/video sent IMO.

[MontanaRenegade86]

@22eley

Do you have some more pictures of the problem area?

Was the shipping box/container damaged on arrival?

Are you the transferring FFL/SOT or is somebody else handling the transfer for you? 

I get that you're upset, I know I was pissed when one of my MGs didn't work right out of the box, but we need to know a little bit more to better understand the issue and help you get it resolved. 

 

[D Edwards]

given the escalating prices of machine guns we are foolish not to have a detailed written contract to protect both parties. we should not be relying on good will. people will disagree on what is fair. i consider myself lucky to have both bought and sold transferables over 30 years without a disagreement. i believe this record speaks well for the integrity of the individuals and dealers that have our sickness. however, no other business i know of these days routinely make deals based on oral agreements involving many thousands of dollars. for example, a person buys a $50,000 machine-gun with a $25,000 deposit. after several months either the buyer or the seller can't complete the deal-what happens to the deposit?

now if a lawyer in our group drew up a standard contact we could all use-hint, hint.

responses are welcomed.

darwin edwards

[tal35]

I went over and checked it out today since he is a friend, definitely messed up. Looks like someone before him tried to grind the bolt down to make it clear. I think that the tube is warped or something, cannot believe that Frank Goephert sold something like this, definitely wasn't a shipping problem! Looks to me like when it was made, the tube warped in the back where the weld is possibly. After we were able to remove the bolt by tapping the bolt out with a nylon hammer we tried another bolt that had not been ground on, would not even fit!!! Gunspot definitely must not CARE about it being correct and their customer service is severely lacking!! It is probably going to take someone to go in and hone the back of the receiver and hopefully get it to fit with a regular bolt. It was an Indiana made gun .  How would Franks place EVEN think about correcting this on the phone?? Really???? In my opinion, Frank should either take it back or fix it or give $500-1k back to make it right! I would think twice about ever buying Anything from them considering that their customer service is lacking like this. BAD on THEM!! I told him he should file a complaint with the BBB to get it corrected. I do know that the bolt should not have to be pounded out with a nylon hammer to get it to come out of the gun, it should drop right out. Maybe they figure its not an expensive gun and they dont care?? An MG is an MG regardless of how much it costs!  I have had several Sten's and this is NOT correct! On top if it all, he shipped it UPS or Fedex which wont honor a lost shipment or can sieze the guns since it is against the rules of UPS or FEDEX . CHEAP!!! My .02 cents

Edited August 3, 2023 by tal35

[D Edwards]

another reason for a written contract. has the seller successfully test fired the gun or otherwise checked for function? when selling i have offered potential buyers to come to my gun range to inspect and test fire the gun. on some expensive guns i have offered to pay for their airfare if they buy the gun. in this case the onus is on the dealer to resolve this problem. words are powerful and the sellers reputation is at stake.

darwin edwards

[tal35]

When I looked at it today, the tube did not look out of round, but all of the welds looked sanded or cleaned up on the outside. We DID NOT beat it out with a 4lb hammer, just tapped it out with a nylon tap hammer and a piece of nylon rod. Nothing done wrong on his end, just more than likely the welding the back on distorted the tube. I am just guessing that maybe not a lot needs fixed, maybe a brake cylinder hone MIGHT be a fix, but I told him that the seller should pony up and fix it, since he guaranteed it to be a working nice gun for what was paid for it. The manuf. was someone I never heard of either. I would expect no less from someone of Franks status.  And yes, words have meaning and something like this should have been checked before the sale not by the SOT that bought it.

[Frank from MWT Joplin MO]

Mike here from Midwest Tactical.  Very disappointed to see your comments on here, John...as they are just not accurate whatsoever.  I hate even responding this way, but when I see these things it's hard NOT to.

John, you know very well that we communicated via email, phone, and gunspot chat many, many times.  We tested this gun and it ran FLAWLESSLY when it arrived at our shop.  The best Sten we've ever shot.  And I know for a fact that this bolt slid out as easily as ever.

When you called, we chatted multiple times about your issue...and we made a fix suggestion over the phone that should have worked as we thought, as suggested in this thread, that something might have happened during shipping.  I TOLD YOU THAT IF WE COULDN'T TROUBLESHOOT THIS OVER THE PHONE WE WOULD BRING THE GUN BACK IN HERE FOR MY GUYS TO LOOK AT. That is where we left everything...

Then I see this...sigh....everyone please forgive my response here, but it is so very frustrating to be characterized like this when we have been taking very good care of this customer.  

[rhouston8]

talk to them - again or first- before going all lawyer .

i've found them to be very reasonable folks concerning such.

i've bought a pile of tranf mgs from them over the yrs. they've always stood by whatever minor issues may have existed on any particular purchase of mine.

stens arent complicated. mwt has a standing 3 day inspection, money back option on purchased guns if i recall.

 

in short.....i know its frustrating as heck...the wait, the $, etc....but take a breathe then call them. they;ll take care of it im sure 

[Got Uzi]

Something else to consider before going all lawyer is that what you post online is considered public record and can be taken into account in a defimation suit if the issue in question is proven to be false.  Been down this road before and yes I had to get my lawyer involved due to flat out falsehoods being posted online about myself and my company.

 

Just take a step back and look things over, its clear that MWT is trying to help, always have, and if this now clear esclation is something that is unwarranted.  I PM'd and asked some simple questions to just see if it was something simple that could possibly be overlooked, and was met with attitude.  That tells me all I need to know at this point as to the temperment of the OP here.  

[Chasingprecision]

Midwest Tactical is a STAND UP top notch company, once an item gets shipped it is in the shippers hands. WE all know UPS, FEDEX, USPS do not like shipping firearms. I have received boxes that have been ran over. The tire marks were on the box, its a risk we all take when shipping.  

[22eley]

5 hours ago, Frank from MWT Joplin MO said:

Mike here from Midwest Tactical.  Very disappointed to see your comments on here, John...as they are just not accurate whatsoever.  I hate even responding this way, but when I see these things it's hard NOT to.

John, you know very well that we communicated via email, phone, and gunspot chat many, many times.  We tested this gun and it ran FLAWLESSLY when it arrived at our shop.  The best Sten we've ever shot.  And I know for a fact that this bolt slid out as easily as ever.

When you called, we chatted multiple times about your issue...and we made a fix suggestion over the phone that should have worked as we thought, as suggested in this thread, that something might have happened during shipping.  I TOLD YOU THAT IF WE COULDN'T TROUBLESHOOT THIS OVER THE PHONE WE WOULD BRING THE GUN BACK IN HERE FOR MY GUYS TO LOOK AT. That is where we left everything...

Then I see this...sigh....everyone please forgive my response here, but it is so very frustrating to be characterized like this when we have been taking very good care of this customer.  

Never 1 time was i Told to send IT BACK! or i would of! ASAP. Mike said he would try to phone fix it 1st and i am FED UP! with phone tag and hes not hear and ill get Back to you and a song and dance, i bet it would shoot now BUT that BOLT NEVER came out of that gun with out driving it out! thats why its all ground down to fit in the gun in the 1st place, he drove it in and left it in! YOU should of HAD the gun Picked up or sent me a Call tag as soon as i told Mike the Bold would Not come out of the gun! NOT keep putting ME OFF! john

[Frank from MWT Joplin MO]

John, I guess you're not going to call me as I requested and left yet ANOTHER voicemail on your phone to do just that....instead you're just going to keep commenting on here?

[Got Uzi]

Maybe YOU need to take a course in proper GRAMMAR too….at this point I’ll ask if you should even own or deal in machine guns as you lack the common sense on how to carry on a rational conversion or how to conduct yourself in a professional manor. 
 

It would appear that MWT has tried to respond via phone call and on this platform as well. It would appear that you are h&ll bent on trash talking and not looking to have the issue resolved so at this point, you have lost all credibility in this argument. You say you had to BEAT the bolt out, while your friend who looked at it, posted on here that the bolt was TAPPED out….tapping is not beating. I’ll allow you to be upset that it isn’t as what you expected when you purchased it, but when I had something similar happen, I handled it one on one, now if I decide to post an AAR on it, that’s up to me. Coming on a public forum to trash talk doesn’t do anyone any good and in the end makes you look like an idiot (and honestly doing a good job)

[Thumpy]

John, Mike is a really good guy. I’m sure if you just call him it will go your way an this will get resolved. Publicly attacking him / an the company he works for this quick I think it is a little uncalled for personally… they seem to be actively trying to find you a solution. I’ve found them to be beyond reasonable in my dealings with them over the years. Mike has always been upfront an very honest when I’ve spoken with him. Try getting ahold of him again I’m sure they will get you taken care of.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Thumpy

[chicom]

I've done three deals with Frank, Mike and Chris and they have always been honest and upfront. Take this off-line and get it sorted out. They won't do you wrong.

[JoshNC]

On 8/3/2023 at 9:35 AM, rhouston8 said:

talk to them - again or first- before going all lawyer .

i've found them to be very reasonable folks concerning such.

i've bought a pile of tranf mgs from them over the yrs. they've always stood by whatever minor issues may have existed on any particular purchase of mine.

stens arent complicated. mwt has a standing 3 day inspection, money back option on purchased guns if i recall.

 

in short.....i know its frustrating as heck...the wait, the $, etc....but take a breathe then call them. they;ll take care of it im sure 

Agreed. Have done many deals with Mike at MWT. He’s a standup guy.

Further, a sten isn’t complicated. I’d probably send it to Andrewski for an overhaul if it has issues.

[Saxonthebeach]

Mike & the guys at MWT are some of the best in the business.  I've personally done 5 MG deals with them (Sten, 1919, M16, AK47, & FAL), and countless more title 1 purchases, and they've been flawless.

 

[Nation68]

Mike at MWT is top notch on every mg purchase! From my million questions on my 1st Mac purchase to my 6 most recent transferable from them! I’ve had my fill of questions and they always 100% take care all my questions and HONESTLY go above and beyond!!! People forget that running a business you can’t always stop what you’re doing and fix something like magic and everyone feels entitled to RIGHT now!!!! If you really had issues and concerns and addressed mtw like a man 100% they got your back, now you just have egg on your face. Do yourself a favor and delete this before you burn bridges! I appreciate MTW for everything they have done for me speak EXTREMELY HIGHLY of Mike and crew….try getting ahold of any “other” transferable dealers…good luck

[United Surplus Arms]

I have done over 100k of business with MWT and they have always done right by me. The one time I had an issue they made it right, no questions asked.

take a deep breath and talk on the phone to get this resolved.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by shiklg

[Greasegunner]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:35 AM, rhouston8 said:

talk to them - again or first- before going all lawyer .

i've found them to be very reasonable folks concerning such.

i've bought a pile of tranf mgs from them over the yrs. they've always stood by whatever minor issues may have existed on any particular purchase of mine.

stens arent complicated. mwt has a standing 3 day inspection, money back option on purchased guns if i recall.

 

in short.....i know its frustrating as heck...the wait, the $, etc....but take a breathe then call them. they;ll take care of it im sure 

Agreed. Have done many deals with Mike at MWT. He’s a standup guy.

Further, a sten isn’t complicated. I’d probably send it to Andrewski for an overhaul if it has issues

 

 

John, the next day after your accusatory angry post Rhouston gave you great advice but I guess you just kept venting

I had my logbook out when I read 22Eley's trash talking totally uncalled for and unprofessional comments.

Since late 2018 , I have bought 22 SMGs and 2 silencers and their service and communications were

the BEST. I bet MWT would still go above and beyond for you 

[Ryo]

Done only one dealing with MWT and I am a happy customer. Sorry to hear your having problems.

If there's some clearance issues on the back of the tube, that should be a easy fix. It sounds like it just needs to be reamed out a bit (not aggressively). Welds do warp metal, learned from personal experience from a Suomi build where I had to rereamed it when completed.

[geefal]

"that should be a easy fix"

 

This.  Correct sized brake hone and portable drill and 10 minutes and gun is fixed

[JECIII]

I don't know they seemed to stand behind thier stuff.  I've done repairs on a couple guns for them.  They have always taken care of it even covering prepaid shipping etc for the customer.   I think you should be able to work this out with them.  My experience they paid about 1.5k to fix a lightning link they got screwed on that had been broken and they weren't told and didn't know until it came in.   We fixed it and returned it happy customer.  

Thanks

John C 

07 sot

[SGT Fish]

On 8/24/2023 at 6:03 AM, Ryo said:

Done only one dealing with MWT and I am a happy customer. Sorry to hear your having problems.

If there's some clearance issues on the back of the tube, that should be a easy fix. It sounds like it just needs to be reamed out a bit (not aggressively). Welds do warp metal, learned from personal experience from a Suomi build where I had to rereamed it when completed.

Could also be that the tube was clamped and bent out of round. My sten backplate was like that. Had to tap it back in shape with a mallet or else the bolt wouldn't come out 

[Kophjager]

I bought my first machine gun from them years ago. It was a form 4 and when my dealer received it I never did a test fire. Eight months later when I receive my tax stamp I took it to the range. It did not go well. Called Mike and asked him if they test fired prior to shipping to me. He said “no” and despite he asked me if I test fired when it arrived at my dealer. My negligence/ lesson learned was not testing when it arrived to my dealer per their 3 day inspection could have been a costly mistake. Fortunately Mike sent me a shipping label and contact of a gunsmith to do the repair. They paid for the repair and I cannot say anything bad about someone who did what technically they did not have to.  
 
 

I understand you saved your money and when the time came to use it you felt let down and feel you got ripped off. I can relate to that. 
 

 

Try calling them again if they do not help you out express your frustration. If they do help you out I think it’s only right you let it be know.  
 

Hope all goes well for you

[Bigmike]

I have no horse in this race. Seems the seller appears to be a stand up guy. The OP feels wronged (backed up by a friends statement of the guns condition) and so would I have been. Maybe the simplest thing to do is agree on someone to repair it. Send it straight to to them for evaluation and repair. Have him keep both parties involved updated. Seems simple and fair. Just my .02

[BDMERC]

I did a lot of business with Frank at MWT when he use to post videos of the guns he was selling, doing a mag dump. I didn't expect anything different when I would receive the gun and it would look like someone just used it for a mag dump! He did have the best prices and well worth a good gun cleaning.

I remember my last transaction was for a nice Savage 1928A1 Thompson. No shooting video was provided. I was thankful after receiving the gun, that it was not shot, since the compensator was not in line with the barrel and needed to be pinned.

I did get a great deal on it though!

How is Frank doing? Does he still "fly in" and appraise collections?

[22eley]

On 8/2/2023 at 5:39 PM, MontanaRenegade86 said:

to better understand

Box and case were 100%, it was Send bad. they keep saying the was going to FIX it over the phone? (BS) there 100% guarantee is ass wipe! and when they did take it back they KEEP 15% of MY money for a gun i Received that was JUNK!  if you got a Great 1 from them Your LUCKY i did not even get a REACH AROUND. john. the END

[MontanaRenegade86]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:08 PM, 22eley said:

Box and case were 100%, it was Send bad. they keep saying the was going to FIX it over the phone? (BS) there 100% guarantee is ass wipe! and when they did take it back they KEEP 15% of MY money for a gun i Received that was JUNK!  if you got a Great 1 from them Your LUCKY i did not even get a REACH AROUND. john. the END

You got an 85% refund?

Hope you find another STEN. It's a very fun gun when everything is running correctly. 

[StrangeRanger]

Diagnosing and attempting to fix problems over the phone is a completely normal procedure.  When it's successful it can save time, aggravation and money.

The Sten in question was a homebuild from some amateur, whose mfgr. information was shown clearly in the pictures. Discussing it with my local SOT we christened it the "Rat Sten."  If that didn't set off alarm bells as to the possibility of it having issues then you need to look up "caveat emptor"

MWT tried to work with you to fix it but you got your attitude all over the floor.  That had to lessen their willingness to go out of their way to satisfy you.

Did you even try to return it for repair or did you only demand a refund?  I'd bet that if you had asked for it to be repaired Mike would have done so at no cost to you.

Has it occurred to you that you are the only guy on this board and quite possibly the planet who thinks that they were screwed by MWT?  You suppose it has anything to do with your attitude?

Edited October 27, 2023 by StrangeRanger

[JM in La.]

Well stated, StrangeRanger.  I couldn’t agree more. Your statements are on point. Over the years I have had several transactions with Midwest and they have always been above board and accommodating.. They are great people to work with and a great asset to our NFA community as well as Sturm... Thank you Buddy!!

[HHollow]

MWT +1 

OP -1

 

[Thumpy]

I’m surprised they didn’t give him all his money back? I thought the did a 3 day guaranty. Maybe I’m wrong. Either way. Sucks y’all couldn’t make a deal both of you were happy about.   

Edited October 29, 2023 by Thumpy

[Got Uzi]

Had he worked with them and not been the way he was with his attitude, I’m sure he would have had the issue fixed. There was another guy on here that did damn near the same thing-bought an HK G3 registered receiver then got all upset and came on here saying they were playing games and he wanted his money back due to it not shipping when HE thought it should. In both cases it seems more like cases of buyers remorse and wanting to get their money back as they jumped in with both feet and didn’t think things over. 
 

I personally called Mike at MWT and discussed this gun with him. I’d considered buying it myself and making it into a beater/shooter, but ended up with an M16 falling into my lap so I couldn’t do it. I wasn’t scared of the gun at all, but then again I understand how they work and how to fix issues instead of coming online to cry about them. When I reached out to the OP and asked about it and offered suggestions I was met with attitude over it. Sure am glad we are all morons by comparison to the OP as he knows all and is the expert. 
 

Do things happen and issues get missed? Yes. Was this a bottom of the barrel/entry level home built Form 1 gun? Yes. Was it bound to have issues because of this and realistically had a complete rebuild including some welds redone? Absolutely! This gun was a home build and is 37 years old at this point (if built in 1986 before the cut off) and any idiot who knew anything about a STEN gun could see the issues that would need addressed right off the bat….so it would stand to reason it could have few more underlying issues that were not seen. A gun can function and fire but still could use work and this was the case with this one for sure. IMO the OP bought it thinking he got a steal and then got buyer remorse which lead to where it is now. 
 

Oh and btw a 15% restock fee is standard anymore. I’d have done the same given the drama and bull$hit involved with this transaction.  

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Got Uzi

[Thumpy]

I hear what you’re saying got uzi… I definitely get it. I’m not agreeing with how the op went about this either. I feel like he should have handled this offline personally I’m not a fan of jumping online that quickly over a deal that was probably easily fixed… especially knowing the mwt folks pretty well they’ve always have been very accommodating to me.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Thumpy

[johnsonlmg41]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:08 PM, 22eley said:

Box and case were 100%, it was Send bad. they keep saying the was going to FIX it over the phone? (BS) there 100% guarantee is ass wipe! and when they did take it back they KEEP 15% of MY money for a gun i Received that was JUNK!  if you got a Great 1 from them Your LUCKY i did not even get a REACH AROUND. john. the END

The bigger problem is likely you?  See post #2 where I offered to buy it.  You would have gotten your money back, but you chose to see a lawyer, create drama, and return the gun for a stocking fee which then appears to make you look "not so smart".  I hereby rescind my offer, and now laugh at you for giving up $1500 for no reason and for assuming NFA items are like an amazon return of a $2 chinese toy.