DINK Posted December 2, 2023 Report Share Posted December 2, 2023 Has anyone ever had any luck welding up chipped locking lugs on M60 bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted December 2, 2023 Report Share Posted December 2, 2023 I asked a couple of gunsmiths this question when Miss Piggy turned hers into a paperweight. Both said it wasn't doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted December 2, 2023 Report Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) The bolts are too hard to weld on and those lugs would be the last place you would ever want to touch with a welder. Manuals call for honing. All I run are chipped bolts, not really a big deal. Edited December 2, 2023 by johnsonlmg41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdmardiv Posted December 3, 2023 Report Share Posted December 3, 2023 johnsonlmg is correct. once the sharp edges of a chipped bolt are removed by honing, they work fine. I get it that most people would prefer a NOS bolt, but they are becoming more and more scarce and expensive. A properly polished bolt will function the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron in Mohnton Pa Posted December 4, 2023 Report Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) @DINK , The camming surfaces of the barrel can get trashed from jacked up bolts .... Will a chipped bolt run? absolutely... Will it do irreversible damage to the barrel if the edges are not stoned and reshaped properly? YES ... And with that being said, not all bolts that chip can be stoned and repaired. Some have chips that are to severe.. The lugs can only be reshaped so much before there is not much of a lug left.... When the Side of the lug is taken down to get rid of the chip it reduces the mating surface area with the barrel extension and can eventually deform the camming surface of the barrel by peening the edge over.... When enough damage is done to the barrel extension it too will be unserviceable. Photos below of a barrel that was run with a bad bolt. This barrel is an e6 commando barrel and was purchased new. So the service history is known..... Many have tried rewelding chipped bolts... Skilled industry people too with full time welders etc... The welds don't hold up.... Bolts have dried up.... We will have new ones available soon. Aaron - Mohnton, Pa Sales@BeltFeds.Com this barrel was purchased new. It is an e6 commando barrel. It was run with a jacked up bolt until it stopped running. This is the surface where the bold lug cams in (the side that chips) this is the other side of the barrel extension. This side lug was not chipped. But it deformed the camming radius of the barrel because the deformed lug on the other side.. Edited December 4, 2023 by Aaron in Mohnton Pa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DINK Posted December 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2023 Thanks for the responses guys. I don't know dick about welding, but a buddy of mine has somewhere around 40 or 50 years of experience and he was asking me why they couldn't be welded. He has done some fantastic work in the past, including some that the experts said couldn't be done but I thought I could get some good feedback here. I'll pass along the general consensus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Cox Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 I wonder why no one has redesigned the barrel and bolt to prevent this issue. Seems like with all the other upgrades they would fix this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DINK Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 It does seem to be an issue related to the M60 only and yet it goes unresolved even with the latest incarnation of the design (the E6) which incorporated many improvements all through it. One thing that has puzzled me is the use of that strong spring in the bolt that forcibly pivots the bolt into battery as it goes forward. I had a Lewis Gun for a while which incorporated the granddaddy of the M60s gas system and bolt. There was no spring involved and the bolt just cammed into battery as the bolt carrier/gas tube moved forward. No chipped lugs there. Why was that spring added? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 (edited) Aside from the bolt chipping, as Aaron noted there's also wear on the corresponding locking recess in the barrel extension. Most of the damage occurs when the bolt slams home on an empty chamber after the last round has fired. The fix is simple: put a blank at the end of the belt. It can even be a fired blank; its only job is to soften the impact. It won't cure the problem but it will significantly extend the working life of both bolt and barrel extension Edited January 8 by StrangeRanger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Pretty sure there is a company making new m60 bolts? Dtv I believe is the name of the company? Maybe I’m wrong thing he posted about them recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Cox Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 I'm talking about a redesign of the barrels and bolt to something more sustainable. Making new bolts or using blanks is a band-aid. I want to see the issue corrected. Though I do know this would probably result in a loss of backwards compatibility with the existing barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
har1690 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 9 hours ago, Thumpy said: Pretty sure there is a company making new m60 bolts? Dtv I believe is the name of the company? Maybe I’m wrong thing he posted about them recently. Maybe this company applies a coating to existing M60 bolts? Gun Manufacturers - Custom DLC Coatings - Hollow Cathode - ArmorLube (armorlubecoating.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT Fish Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 10 hours ago, Thumpy said: Pretty sure there is a company making new m60 bolts? Dtv I believe is the name of the company? Maybe I’m wrong thing he posted about them recently. Aaron had new bolts made and had them listed recently. May still have them but I didn't check today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron in Mohnton Pa Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 We have some new DLC coated bolts. Will be interesting to see how the Diamond Like Coating holds up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Just curious, what effect to you expect the coated bolt to have on the wear of the op rod drive lug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron in Mohnton Pa Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 @StrangeRanger I don't forsee any more wear to the oprod tower than it normally sustains with parkerized bolts.... The area of the bolt that the oprod cams in does not wear. So the mating surface contours that contact the oprod tower are the same weather they are DLC coated or parkerized. Aaron - Mohnton, Pa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnh Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 (edited) @StrangeRanger fwiw, I've found a liberal application of grease to the tower/bolt interface significantly reduces / eliminates wear. @Aaron in Mohnton Pa I'm super excited to see this new source of bolts come to market & hope folks will post some range reports and/or pics after shooting a few thousand rounds (bolt + before/after pics of the barrel extension that used with the bolt would be helpful as well!). Edited January 10 by mattnh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron in Mohnton Pa Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 @mattnh Some of these are currently out at big rental ranges getting hammered on. Will post range report when they have significant round counts on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbntex Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 Aaron, Are these new DLC bolts going to be a one time produced item or does the manufacturer plan to continue to make them going forward? Out of curiosity do you have any insight on why US Ord doesn't sell complete bolts? They must make them on sort sort of regular cadence for military orders but in my experience it is exceedingly rare for Bob to ever have any standalone spare bolts (or op rods, etc.) for sale when I talk to him. I have never pressed US Ord on "why" they never seem to have critical spares available but it seems to me like they could sell the shit out of bolts/op-rods, etc. if they wanted to but choose not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron in Mohnton Pa Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 @jbntex, As of right now it was one production run. However, they will continue to be made if they continue to sell. These are not an easy part to make. The machining is complex, they all then have to be heat treated to USGI spec, and then go out for DLC coating. I feel pretty confident that sales will be consistent with them. Lots of companies like rental ranges burning through bolts. I am not affiliated with USO in any way, so of course I can't speak with certainty on that.... But, I know enough to know that USO does not sell to anyone or any company outside of official gov sales or foreign military sales etc....Contracts come first.... and they are supplying quite a few nations with M60s, M2s, M240s, Mk19s etc.... So I believe their machines are running year round. Likely around the clock given the state of the world today.... I am sure Desert Ord also is reliant on machines being available to produce these parts as well..... Again, this is just my guess on it. Aaron - Mohnton, Pa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbntex Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 (edited) Thanks for the reply. I have a cache of spare bolts I feel pretty comfortable with given my M60 only get shot once or twice a year. However putting another bolt or two on the spares pile is never a bad idea. I just sorta wanted to see some first hand reports on how they held up before buying extra "extra" spares I will probably never need in my lifetime. Granted in this game "if you snooze you can lose" so if this was a known one time and done production run deal it might be worth the risk to buy a couple before any field reports are available. I just sorta always assumed US Ord and Desert Ord were kinda one in the same thing and Bob worked for both entities. i.e just two separate FFLs in the same building/facility separated by a fence, etc. with one focused on Mil and one on commercial sales. Dessert Ord being the "commercial" arm of those sales when they choose to sell stuff (which seems to be pretty rare over the past 10ish years) My impression based of conversations with them was the Dessert Ord didn't actually make any parts themselves and they always got them from US Ord's manufacturing side whenever they did have any parts for sale. i have been fortunate to get some spares out of Desert Ord over the 15+ years I have owned my M60 and after a couple years of asking/waiting I was finally able to get a complete E6 kit from them last year. However, 9 times out of 10 if you make an inquiry on M60 parts to Dessert Ord they don't have any major wear items like bolts/op-rods/barrels/etc. for sale which always seemed odd since I just presumed the sister company "US Ord" on the other side of the FFL fence in the building had machines carving out M60 parts that both companies could sell to their respective markets. However, I guess the M60 parts supply chain mystery sort of continues. Thanks again for helping get the community new bolts as a new source was desperately needed and it will help keep folks from paying exorbitant fees on gunbroker. Edited January 12 by jbntex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron in Mohnton Pa Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 You are not wrong on them being in the same building and being affiliated..Desert Ord is the civilian side of USO.... I am proud to say Bob is my friend and has ALWAYS treated me well.... There was once a time where he had an website that you could hit add to cart and by most all of the M60 wear components from their internet store....I know Desert Ord is in need of Operating Rods just like the rest of us and I'm certain hes trying to get restocked.... But there are also people waiting for that time to come and buying 10-20 at a time from him when he does get stuff like that in stock... His inventory goes fast... The size and scope of things being produced by USO is enormous... Sometimes the scale of the contracts they are filling requires years to produce and deliver ... due to the shear quantities.... We were having operating rods made at one point and it took a serious amount of time and engineering to get them done to spec, proper heat treat etc.... They sold out every-time we listed them for sale. Unfortunately the company we used to make them shut down. So back to the drawing board.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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