Alpine

I don't understand it?

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Been on Sturmgewehr from the beginning.  Had bought and sold over the years with no issues.  Been out of the semi-auto scene for a few years as I was heavily into long range shooting and competition.  Recently I signed up for an account, and posted a few rifles for sale.  Then I get people wanting pictures, and after sending (emailing) pictures, The usual response is... I can't afford it, or it costs to much.  Why the hell ask for pictures, waste everyone's time, when you cannot afford it in the first place or have no intention to buy?  The price is clearly marked in the post.

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It happens in the NFA game too. Not making excuses as it pisses me off too, but as I get older instead of exploding with a rant ripping the perp,(which I did regularly here and on Snubguns when a deal went bad) I just relist it and NEVER do business with this person again. (In private of course I warn all of my current buyers abut this wanna b turd to prevent another failed deal)

I think it makes them feel like they are a heavyweight in the hobby by pretending to be financially viable and "in the game", when all along they know they are not. 

I like to refer to this type of buyer as  5lbs of sxit in a 10 lb bag.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

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19 hours ago, Alpine said:

Why the hell ask for pictures, waste everyone's time, when you cannot afford it in the first place or have no intention to buy?  The price is clearly marked in the post.

Ask for a picture of their money. That will show 'em. :D 

I agree 100% with you. Negotiation is acceptable but just wasting a guy's time is bullshit. 

-KristopherH

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Wasting someone's time is not cool.. unless I'm next on the list for a purchase.  ;)

So far I have never back down from a purchase, though I have asked photos of NFA items to determine if I wanted to buy it.. but I've always (well to my knowledge) let them know that I would pass on it. I've definitely bought things I felt I shouldn't have, but never backed down from it because I committed to it.  

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Being a man of your word was the "currency" we used to do business decades ago in the NFA world. A call , a handshake, or just your word over the phone, "I'll take it" was all that was needed.

Bought thousands and thousands of dollars of NFA that way. It's a different world now.

Don't let that change you. As long as YOU keep your word, your rep will be sterling.

Of course that doesn't help much not getting super pissed having to deal with people with no integrity... I still get pissed, I just react differently.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

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Forgive me if I misunderstood the OP but tire kicking and welshing are two distinctly separate things.  Tire kicking (asking for pics, negotiating, etc) and not coming to an agreement for various reasons is an expected part of doing business though communicating the end of negotiations is the polite thing to do. While not necessarily enjoyable for the seller, it doesn't tie up the item in question for any other interested buyers.  Welshing on a deal wastes both the seller's time and potentially spikes any other buyers who may have been interested but moved on when a deal was "pending".

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Not trying to be a nit picker, but it's "WELCH", not Welsh.

That might give people of Welsh ancestry a bad name..like me. I am Welsh,

R.L.

AKA known as Welsh Warrior!

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Sounds like the OP just hates people who can't afford the NFA item contact and ask for more info.. like photos of the item for sale.. but have no intention of purchasing it.

Another method could be list the item and first person who says "I'll take it" gets it..  Though then that may bring out the Welshers.. err.. I mean welchers.

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as always, there are two sides to this coin obviously one is not a nice or productive as the other. I have been active on STURM since day one as much as anyone. until DAVID changed how things are handled, I never managed to please the moderator and 99.9% of my posts were blasted so  my activity was limited to buying . since the change I managed to do it all, ell a bit , and post some thoughts. my MAIN GOAL was make sure each and every post got some type of reply. some of those posts would sit totally ignored days on end and then the hawks would rap all over my response usually with a ton of quotes they scrounged from some other internet source and it got personal way too many times. the computer only allows the extreme ends of a human emotion to be expressed and the actual intent of the post or reply can be lost once I cleared that hurdle I started posting items for sale and the constant pic requests became a serious PAIN ! I could not understand  the need.  b-4 the net we managed to use  SHOTGUN NEWS and GUN WEEK and I bought and sold sight unseen more than 30 years without much problem. of course we wont forget the guy from TEXAS that constantly offered the holy grail assault rifle or access with a price, that was ALWAYS SOLD, but same guy same item offered again increased 20% or more. he haunts this site to this very day. when I learned of all the new scammers that haunted the net , only then could I see the need and did my best to provide them even though I have few tech skills and could not bring the 2 separate systems together.  after a while , I noticed not getting any response after pics went out several times and learned about all the "pic collectors" that haunt the net and got mad.  what worked best for me was , answer all pic requests with the demand we speak direct and have a little chat and if we had a positive interaction,  I would send pics.  in the rush to pass judgement please consider the new comer trying to get started wont know how we do things cheers mike


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, b_san said:

Forgive me if I misunderstood the OP but tire kicking and welshing are two distinctly separate things.  Tire kicking (asking for pics, negotiating, etc) and not coming to an agreement for various reasons is an expected part of doing business though communicating the end of negotiations is the polite thing to do. While not necessarily enjoyable for the seller, it doesn't tie up the item in question for any other interested buyers.  Welshing on a deal wastes both the seller's time and potentially spikes any other buyers who may have been interested but moved on when a deal was "pending".

A boring little story for all you fine gentlemen who care to read it...

It was the Fourth of July, my favorite holiday, and I was visiting family at my grandmother's place. Grandma gave us permission to shoot off fireworks on her property, so a bunch of us loaded up in my uncle's car, and we headed to a fireworks stand a couple of miles down the road. Anybody who knows me knows that I love mortar shell fireworks - the more obnoxious they are, the better. When we arrived at the fireworks stand, I asked the attendant what she had for obnoxious mortar shells. She pointed over to a wall and said, "those are what you're looking for". There before me was a big-assed package of awesome looking mortar shells. There was a problem, though. Some assclown was in "negotiations" with one of the other attendants over said mortar shells. The assclown wanted the shells but only if "the fire department said it was okay". This assclown actually insisted that the attendant call the fire department, and get approval for assclown to use these fireworks. If the local fire department said those shells were okay, he'd take them. This shit went on for a couple of minutes. Finally, being the bastard I am, I thought to hell with it and said to the attendant waiting on me, "I'll take those obnoxious shells you suggested".  She went over, retrieved them, and put them in with my pile of other goodies. Assclown turns to me and sarcastically says, "I was going to buy those". I can't remember exactly what I said to him, but I more or less told him he was full of shit. He was so pissed at me for calling him on his bullshit that he committed to buying a HUUUUUUUUGGGGEEEEEE box of (slightly less obnoxious) mortar shells, fire department approval be damned. I guess at that point, assclown had to prove that his trouser salami (and credit card) was bigger than mine. It was pretty damn funny. 

Long story short, I don't like tire kicking or welching. Make a decision to take it or leave it and stick with it.

Are there times when you should walk away? Absolutely. If you have no intention of buying it in the first place, or have all kinds of unreasonable conditions, should you waste the seller's time? Absolutely not.  

Just the rambling thoughts of a jackass Renegade. :D 

-KristopherH

Edited by MontanaRenegade86
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The BIGGER the better. Yep I love dark salute mortars. The colored shells are great too. I used to have a connection to get commercial 5" dark salutes that were just the loudest you could get for 5" shells.They left no trail on the way up, so you could not tell where they were coming from. but when then went off it would shake windows for miles.(I drove the local FD crazy one year. We have our tubes buried so I'd run out send up a volley, run back inside and then the FD would run around trying to see was setting em off. Drove em crazy for hours! I'd finish the display with a 100 rnd 2" mortar "cake". Last time I did that I almost got my ass caught. I just had dropped the expended cake in the dumpster as the fire Marshall drove down the driveway.He knew it was me but never asked to look in the dumpster.

It's all fun and games until you get caught!

 

R.L.

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I remember seeing Alpine on snipers hide, he has some very nice stuff. A kown good guy.

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, R.L. said:

Not trying to be a nit picker, but it's "WELCH", not Welsh.

That might give people of Welsh ancestry a bad name..like me. I am Welsh,

R.L.

AKA known as Welsh Warrior!

The phrase originated as a disparagement on dishonest Welshmen (of which I'm also descended, though hopefully not the dishonest kind...) so I use the original spelling instead of the modern bastardized spelling.  Much like the phrase being "gypped" derives from transactions with dishonest Gypsyies/Romani, which many people misspell jipped.

Edited by b_san

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Interesting...What part of Wales? My family is from the Lower Gower in Swansea.

 

R.L.

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On 8/4/2020 at 10:56 PM, Alpine said:

Been on Sturmgewehr from the beginning.  Had bought and sold over the years with no issues.  Been out of the semi-auto scene for a few years as I was heavily into long range shooting and competition.  Recently I signed up for an account, and posted a few rifles for sale.  Then I get people wanting pictures, and after sending (emailing) pictures, The usual response is... I can't afford it, or it costs to much.  Why the hell ask for pictures, waste everyone's time, when you cannot afford it in the first place or have no intention to buy?  The price is clearly marked in the post.

You can avoid about half of the pain-in-the-a$$ queries if you initially post some pics with your WTS items.  Many people want to see pics of the WTS items to see if there may be something special about item. This is especially true with SIG 55X rifles.  A pic also shows the seller actually has the item to be sold and it's not a scam.

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58 minutes ago, R.L. said:

Interesting...What part of Wales? My family is from the Lower Gower in Swansea.

 

R.L.

Part of the family is from Abergele, Denbighshire.

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If it wasn't so liberal, and you could own guns I'd move there. It is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been, and I've traveled a lot of the world. I visit every now and then after staying with friends in England driving across the Severn River.

They won't even carry gun rags in the stores there. Told me they don't NEED guns in Wales.

WTF happened to the Celtic Warriors of long ago.

They turned into Celtic soy boyz and girlz!

The whole world is going nuts.

 

R.L.

AKA

Welsh Warrior

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50 minutes ago, pstidan said:

You can avoid about half of the pain-in-the-a$$ queries if you initially post some pics with your WTS items.  Many people want to see pics of the WTS items to see if there may be something special about item. This is especially true with SIG 55X rifles.  A pic also shows the seller actually has the item to be sold and it's not a scam.

Actually the scammers are stealing pics and posting those genuine photos for fake sales.. you can't even trust that anymore.  The

We do live in the age of eBay.. where everyone is use to being able to see the photo of what they want to buy. I tend to list with a photo just to make it easier for them to determine if it is what they want.  I can't remember a time where they requested a photo of an item when i did that.

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2 hours ago, R.L. said:

They turned into Celtic soy boyz and girlz!

The same thing happened to my Scandinavian tribe. 

Lefse and lutefisk must be full of soy.  

KristopherH aka Floki 

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Ya know I love Sweden, or used to. Such a beautiful country. We used to buy a lot of Swedish drilling equipment. I'd visit the factory once a year on vacation...that is until the influx of sub Saharan moslem trash people were ushered in. Unbelievable problems in Sweden now. It's shameful. Malmo is a disgrace now. Areas even native born citizens cannot enter there.Finland is holding fast so far, but expect the same to happen there. Helsinki is also very beautiful. Been thre many time sin the past.I'm glad my world travels were done when I was young and Europe was a place to visit in the 80's and 90's. I wouldn't visit now if the tickets were free. Italy is an absolute open latrine. Very sad.

 

R.L.

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On 8/7/2020 at 4:31 PM, Ryo said:

Actually the scammers are stealing pics and posting those genuine photos for fake sales.. you can't even trust that anymore.  The

We do live in the age of eBay.. where everyone is use to being able to see the photo of what they want to buy. I tend to list with a photo just to make it easier for them to determine if it is what they want.  I can't remember a time where they requested a photo of an item when i did that.

I started to think that also and that's why on guns that are pricey I put my initials or email in the picture with "paint" and submit that, it's kind of hard to list it on another board/site and it not be obvious it isn't yours. Now I list 1 or 2 pics and am open to requests for more. I agree it's troublesome but with all the fraudsters and scammers in the wind it's understandable.

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15 hours ago, MEW said:

I started to think that also and that's why on guns that are pricey I put my initials or email in the picture with "paint" and submit that, it's kind of hard to list it on another board/site and it not be obvious it isn't yours. Now I list 1 or 2 pics and am open to requests for more. I agree it's troublesome but with all the fraudsters and scammers in the wind it's understandable.

Watermarking your ads is a good idea.  I do that for some of my photos when I post. 

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please forgive my tech skills with this danged box i use so much, but I can never figure out how to capture and quote in these forums. KRISTOPHER IE;montana renegade, I cant help it , I just have to respond to your post in this thread. 999,99% of the time me and you come from the same side of the leaf we eat breath and struggle much the same and unlike me you seem to think things out b-4 you type. I have zero tolerance with inconsiderate IDIOTS also and by your description he fit there pretty well.  however ,(sigh) I dont believe its ever ok to get in the middle of a buyer and seller  no matter what! or how long you have to wait. I learned this stuff at a very early age and many times other buyers were 30 to 40 years my senior at gun shows most have money and are used to doing what the want. I have been cuffed maybe 12 times, booked and charged 7 times and not proud of any. 5-ag assault 2 attempt murder. all 5 ag assaults happened at gun shows or in the parking lot.  during a fri nite setup a vendor (a local church minister) was unloading a huge estate load and i bought most of what he had brought spending more than $8k.  some of that was left behind the table until sat morning he was bringing more and I brought a lot more money. he helped me truck goods to my place and we talked about what was coming and made several more deals for the next day. I always try to be first to arrive and i just sat at his table until he came. when he landed i paid him for what was behind the table, stacked it in the isle to truck and started on the new stuff which was another full pickup load he would bring out what we talked about, I would look and he marked down what we did. as I was looking in a box he handed me, another dealer reached in a pulled stuff out of the box I had my hands in and he asked the seller how much is this? I turned to him and said we did this last night and if anything is left when I am done he can deal for it , but only when I am finished.  he gave me a dirty look and muttered something then turned to my boxes (several) stacked in front of the table already paid for. as nice as I could , I explained all that was paid for and belonged to me. he then stood up and took something out of the box i was in and I had to say it again.  the third time, I asked the seller to try and tell him what was going on, but all he did was the der in the head light look and shrug his shoulders he was lost.. so now it was up to me,   when I got in his face, he started slobbering spittle that I did not have a monopoly on things and need to back off. one last time , I pulled out my notes about the new stuff and said there is a lot more we didnt talk about and that would be first come first served but all the previous stuff, I had first right of refusal b-4 he could look. he slapped my note book and on the way up shoved me so hard I fell on my ass. I could not get up with out turning to use my hands and knees to stand but he jumped on my back . I cant relate blow by blow, but he ended up with a large gash from his right nostril across the eye  and at the forehead it went to the bone about 2". mesa police was security and they detained both of us while he asked people the facts. it was agreed it was mutual combat and both were at fault so he went away and I continued with the goods. while questioning us paramedics came and out a large compress on his right side and he went behind his tables. about an hour later I could see his wife and arrived, looked him over and the paramedics returned and took him away. this all started about 7:15 am. at just after 1 pm 2 mesa pd officers came and said he was injured worse than thought and I was under arrest for ag assault.  the officer hired by show people showed me his interview sheets from people and all said I was always there and a grenade with the pin pulled. remarked yes all THOSE people dont care for me because I am the main competition when buying. I said ask other people not present what I really do at the shows. buying tables just to display unique MG's , helping get the right piece or grading things etc. at the prelim hearing that officer that decided i should be charged had asked around and the majority of the show people had I respect for me and he would testify to that at the trial. when the prosecutor talked to him, the all went to the judges chamber and it was decided to drop the charges without prejudice . i can assure you  hudreds of times the last 60 years I let many treasures go away that i could have chimed in I will give you more and bit my tongue to keep it fair and square. KRISTOPHER , dont get mad at me PLEASE ! its just the way I was taught to be!  cheers all

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I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Posted (edited)

It's all good, Mike. It's all good. 

I'll be the first to admit I'm an A-Hole sometimes. Well, maybe most times. :D It's not an endearing quality and I attempt to keep it in check. Sometimes the bad wolf overpowers the good one, though.

Hope you're doing well, Amigo. Take care. 

-KristopherH

ETA: Great story, Mike. Thanks!

Edited by MontanaRenegade86
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It sucks but happens all the time but i try o to be offended by it. Some people are picture hunters, Some just want to see pictures and wish they could afford it. serious buyer will always state their interests.

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