Greasegunner Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 Hello All: I have a SOT and received a gun to transfer. I have done only one form 4 in 10 years- All my dealings are on Form3 with other dealers Buyer has not gotten me prints or photos yet. He gave me a drivers license from another state. His trust is registered here in my state.I doubt I can use his prints and photos What do I need to file the form 4? If co trustees are in my state , i would think I need their prints and phototographs Thanks in advance for any input Thanks Haris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnh Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 There has to be a responsible person named in the trust who is a resident of your state to take possession. Where is trust was formed is irrelevant. You need to submit a responsible person questionare (With pics & prints) for every responsible person 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greasegunner Posted September 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 Hi Matt: I bought lage uppers or other stuff from you I get it that a RP must be resident of my state to take possession Do i need prints and photos of the responsible parties who are not in my state as well ?? Thanks Haris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnh Posted September 14, 2023 Report Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) Yes, You need to submit photo & prints with the responsible person questionnaire for EVERY responsible person (not just the person picking up the item). If there are 10 responsible persons, then 10 RP forms each with photo & prints… This should help you generate all the paperwork… https://eform4.silencershop.com/ Edited September 14, 2023 by mattnh 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted September 15, 2023 Report Share Posted September 15, 2023 The transfer goes to the state where the entity exists. Where the RP resides is not relevant. The RP does not need to be a state resident to take possession of NFA items, but to leave the state it will need a 5320.20. You can use his prints and photos and no DL is needed until pickup and filling out the 4473 after the transfer is approved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamebit21 Posted September 15, 2023 Report Share Posted September 15, 2023 You can thank Carl Marx disciple Nobama for all the extra paperwork. He initiated more “NFA Safety ACTS” AKA “Political Safety ACTS.” It’s like we’re criminals even going to submit anything to the government or Law Enforcement?? Can’t have any “Irresponsible” persons having access. Well you can be if your Hunter Biden with guns I guess…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted September 15, 2023 Report Share Posted September 15, 2023 On 9/14/2023 at 8:56 AM, mattnh said: Yes, You need to submit photo & prints with the responsible person questionnaire for EVERY responsible person (not just the person picking up the item). If there are 10 responsible persons, then 10 RP forms each with photo & prints… This should help you generate all the paperwork… https://eform4.silencershop.com/ for a MG pickup on a trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnh Posted September 15, 2023 Report Share Posted September 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, taylorwso said: for a MG pickup on a trust? When transferee is a Trust (trust is getting the item), the F4 submission to the ATF (of any NFA item) requires a complete RP questionnaire for EVERY named RP (not just the RP picking it up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 I've done this for 4473 where they had to provide a government issued utility bill to show they lived in state for the transfer... Not sure if that is the same for Form4s. Like everyone said.. You must get all documents filled out for other people on the trust. Has anyone seen a one shot trust? I've heard about those but none of my customers have ever used it. Curious how they worded it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 21 hours ago, mattnh said: When transferee is a Trust (trust is getting the item), the F4 submission to the ATF (of any NFA item) requires a complete RP questionnaire for EVERY named RP (not just the RP picking it up). i get that, but we are not taking about the form, and no one does that anyway so it moot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 On 9/14/2023 at 8:21 AM, Greasegunner said: Hello All: I have a SOT and received a gun to transfer. I have done only one form 4 in 10 years- All my dealings are on Form3 with other dealers Buyer has not gotten me prints or photos yet. He gave me a drivers license from another state. His trust is registered here in my state.I doubt I can use his prints and photos What do I need to file the form 4? If co trustees are in my state , i would think I need their prints and phototographs Thanks in advance for any input Thanks Haris you need alt id from him to establish residency, or just get a instate rp. if neither, then he needs to add a trustee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 17 hours ago, Ryo said: I've done this for 4473 where they had to provide a government issued utility bill to show they lived in state for the transfer... Not sure if that is the same for Form4s. Like everyone said.. You must get all documents filled out for other people on the trust. Has anyone seen a one shot trust? I've heard about those but none of my customers have ever used it. Curious how they worded it basically 2 different actions, filing a form 4 and picking up. only the latter (4473) is a concern. the form 4 is a trust so only the RPs listed on the trust can pick up. the form 4 can have anyone on it, but for the 4473 a listed rp must pick it up Ive done a tone of oneshots, only rps can pick it up and on the one shot 99 percent of the time its just a settlor/grantor and the after pickup people add trustees to the trust so as to share items Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greasegunner Posted September 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 Taylorwso Trust is in ARkansas Resp Party Nevada Resident and only the one on the trust I think transferring to him on 4473 violates federal law Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted September 16, 2023 Report Share Posted September 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Greasegunner said: Taylorwso Trust is in ARkansas Resp Party Nevada Resident and only the one on the trust I think transferring to him on 4473 violates federal law Correct? Well you can buy a rifle and shotgun in any state regardless of what the id says… if he’s trust is in your state your transferring to the trust that is set up in your state… your transferring it to the trust not to him… if he leaves the state he’d be in violation possibly but I don’t think you’d violated any law. I could be completely wrong I guess… but the trust is in your state as far as I’m concerned the trust is the owner. I think you’d be okay honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNBUGS Posted September 17, 2023 Report Share Posted September 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Thumpy said: Well you can buy a rifle and shotgun in any state regardless of what the id says Not entirely true. An FFL holder must comply with the laws of the state that he is licensed in, plus the laws of the buyers home state. Sometimes that is not possible. Such as, I'm in Alaska, where we don't have any state restrictions for sales, but if my buyer is from a state that runs their own background checks, or has a state mandated waiting period, or some other convoluted state hoo-hah, then it's not possible for me to do that. The buyer is "out of luck" in that case, regardless if it is a long gun. Military service members that are PCS to the state are viewed as defacto residents and get a pass, regardless of their home state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted September 17, 2023 Report Share Posted September 17, 2023 17 hours ago, Greasegunner said: Taylorwso Trust is in ARkansas Resp Party Nevada Resident and only the one on the trust I think transferring to him on 4473 violates federal law Correct? You're not transferring on a 4473, you're only gathering the information on the RP that was not filled out on a form 4 for the trust that is the actual owner (all the questions, ID, and a signature testifying to how you answered the questions). There is no NICS check because the RP has already had a BC via NFA branch including prints, so the 4473 info never gets called in. You're not transferring to an out of state person, the person is moving to the state as an overseer of the trust and cannot move the item out of the state without the trust filling out a 5320.20, because while he may be in control of the item, it's not his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted September 17, 2023 Report Share Posted September 17, 2023 9 hours ago, GUNBUGS said: Not entirely true. An FFL holder must comply with the laws of the state that he is licensed in, plus the laws of the buyers home state. Sometimes that is not possible. Such as, I'm in Alaska, where we don't have any state restrictions for sales, but if my buyer is from a state that runs their own background checks, or has a state mandated waiting period, or some other convoluted state hoo-hah, then it's not possible for me to do that. The buyer is "out of luck" in that case, regardless if it is a long gun. Military service members that are PCS to the state are viewed as defacto residents and get a pass, regardless of their home state. Interesting stuff here… but the trust would act as the owner wouldn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted September 17, 2023 Report Share Posted September 17, 2023 23 hours ago, Greasegunner said: Taylorwso Trust is in ARkansas Resp Party Nevada Resident and only the one on the trust I think transferring to him on 4473 violates federal law Correct? As far as the rules for nfa items, yes it must be rp and it must be in the state. I'm not a lawyer but I would only do it that way. I know you can transfer longarms to non residents but I rember reading the atf ruling/faq about trust and it can only go to a perosn on the trust. I would just have the dude add a person, have them pick it up. Just get a copy of the trust and the notarized addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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