Zach219 Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 Hello, been looking at buying a mac11 (with lage upper). However there is a 5k difference roughly between that, and a group industries Uzi. I am looking to shoot it, but also have it as a collectible. Should I spend the extra money on the Uzi for the sheer collectibility aspect? I prefer to shoot the mac. But like having the idea of the Uzi. Help spend my money. Or save me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 Depends do you want a mac or an uzi? If you just want a great smg out of the box uzi…. If you want to change what your shooting an the feel of it all the time get a mac… Mac’s out of the box are a bullet hose super fun… challenging to shoot trow a lage upper totally different gun trow a different lage upper another different gun trow a rifle caliber upper on it an now it’s a got a completely different feel. Uzis your kinda stuck with 22/9mm/45 with Mac’s 22/9mm/45/223 (7.62x39 when the guy finally gets it to market an many more) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 Unless you buy an actual, real UZI that was made as a SMG from the factory, by either FN or IMI, (not a Vector or converted IMI semi auto) there is no "collectability" that is going to be associated with it. There are a lot of UZIs available on the market and their prices are rather stagnant while MACs values are climbing. Not because MACs are cool or collectable, but just because they are entry level MGs that now have a lot of attachments available for them to let people have a more versatile "MG experience" on a tight budget. And the more conversions and gizmos that are being made for them, the more sought after and valuable they will become. So from an investment standpoint, you're better off buying a MAC. But if you're going to buy a MAC, don't hesitate because they aren't getting any cheaper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBR Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Owned both, currently only have an RPB 10/9. Both are iconic guns but the Mac has way more options and more spare parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootnDull Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 Better balance, accuracy and overall is definitely the Uzi. The only thing the MAC comes in ahead is on concealability, which isn't a concern for most legal owners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 I disagree. The Lage Mac upgrades make a HUGE improvement. The Uzi is a good shooter, but I get very good 5.56 and 9mm systems with Lage options. The 9mm system that I have (Max 11 MK2) shoots very well for me. Adjustable rate of fire, options for drums on other uppers (lost on me since I have a Swedish K), stocks, fore-grips, optics, etc make the 9mm kit one of my go-to guns for fun. My factory pre-sample Uzi stays home now. I just wish someone would rework the trigger group to get a nicer trigger for the M11/9. I have the Lage trigger but there's still room for improvement there. Shoot each and decide what YOU like. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggar Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 As someone that was very recently in the market myself for a first MG, the choice was super clear. The Mac is just a super flexible platform with so many upper options. If you buy a .45 ACP Mac, you will have 9mm, .45 and 5.56 mm options. What other MG's except for transferable AR lowers offer that kind of flexibility? And at the $10k-12k price point its just such an obvious choice. I love Uzis but even transferable bolts in semi auto host are going for $20k+ now. You can still find Macs for $10k or so and buy a few Lage uppers and now you have a great gun that can play so many roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 15 hours ago, Juggar said: As someone that was very recently in the market myself for a first MG, the choice was super clear. The Mac is just a super flexible platform with so many upper options. If you buy a .45 ACP Mac, you will have 9mm, .45 and 5.56 mm options. What other MG's except for transferable AR lowers offer that kind of flexibility? And at the $10k-12k price point its just such an obvious choice. I love Uzis but even transferable bolts in semi auto host are going for $20k+ now. You can still find Macs for $10k or so and buy a few Lage uppers and now you have a great gun that can play so many roles. Transferable UZI bolts are worth less than RR UZIs, and RR UZIs go for around $17 for an IMI and $18 for a Vector in VG condition. So a bolt with a fullsize host might pull $15k on a good day if it's mint. And I don't know when the last time I saw a MAC go for $10k, maybe a year ago? They are in the $11-$12k range now. And the choice for you seems to have been super clear, but only from a "sending as many different caliber bullets downrange as fast as possible" viewpoint. Something you might fail to realize is that of all of the reasons people choose to to own a MG, that is not the primary one. As an example, I will submit the M3 greasegun. It is one caliber only, (45) and it's the slowest ROF subgun there is. It has 0 ability to be converted to any other caliber (unless you possess one of the rare, WW2 9mm conversion kits) and yet it is one of the most expensive transferable subguns there is. So why would people want to spend $45k on such a weapon when for that same money, they could get 4 MACs? Because MACs have no collector value, no historical value and are uncomfortable to shoot and ugly AF. They are more like the "cybertruck" of the MG world. If you see someone shooting one at the range, the thought that goes goes through your head isn't "Oh wow! That's so cool! It looks like the same one used in all those cool films!", or "it's just like what my father carried in the war!" No. It's more like "Ew, what kind of home made junk is that?" unless you're a kid and get easily impressed just by the sound of FA fire. The MAC has 0 ergonomics and doesn't give off a vibe of being finely engineered, designed or well built. If a MAC was a handgun, it wouldn't be a Colt, S&W, HK or even a Glock. It would be a HiPoint. They are only sought by people with little disposable income who want to shoot FA for as cheaply as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) I vote UZI. I own a Group/Vector full-size, have had it for over 20 years. I had a m11/9 and sold it. Shot plenty of Laged out MACs and while nice, they don’t do it for me as a collector. The Uzi does it for me as a collector and a shooter. It’s not flexible like a MAC, but I don’t care. I have an M16 and HK sears for flexibility. I appreciate the Uzi for what it is, an iconic SMG that’s a great shooter in its own right with inexpensive widely available mags and (at least for now) good availability of spare parts. It really comes down to what YOU want. Do you have the ability to buy more MGs in the future? Are you a collector, a shooter, or both? If you will only own one and want maximum flexibility, the MAC is it. Edited April 3 by JoshNC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GK8041 Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 Investing ~$80 in The Mac Man, and UZI SMG Examined books could be useful for insights. And who gives af what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggar Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) 9 hours ago, Chef said: Transferable UZI bolts are worth less than RR UZIs, and RR UZIs go for around $17 for an IMI and $18 for a Vector in VG condition. So a bolt with a fullsize host might pull $15k on a good day if it's mint. And I don't know when the last time I saw a MAC go for $10k, maybe a year ago? They are in the $11-$12k range now. And the choice for you seems to have been super clear, but only from a "sending as many different caliber bullets downrange as fast as possible" viewpoint. Something you might fail to realize is that of all of the reasons people choose to to own a MG, that is not the primary one. As an example, I will submit the M3 greasegun. It is one caliber only, (45) and it's the slowest ROF subgun there is. It has 0 ability to be converted to any other caliber (unless you possess one of the rare, WW2 9mm conversion kits) and yet it is one of the most expensive transferable subguns there is. So why would people want to spend $45k on such a weapon when for that same money, they could get 4 MACs? Because MACs have no collector value, no historical value and are uncomfortable to shoot and ugly AF. They are more like the "cybertruck" of the MG world. If you see someone shooting one at the range, the thought that goes goes through your head isn't "Oh wow! That's so cool! It looks like the same one used in all those cool films!", or "it's just like what my father carried in the war!" No. It's more like "Ew, what kind of home made junk is that?" unless you're a kid and get easily impressed just by the sound of FA fire. The MAC has 0 ergonomics and doesn't give off a vibe of being finely engineered, designed or well built. If a MAC was a handgun, it wouldn't be a Colt, S&W, HK or even a Glock. It would be a HiPoint. They are only sought by people with little disposable income who want to shoot FA for as cheaply as possible. I bought mine for $10,500 a month ago, so yes you can get them around the $10k mark if you are capable of some negotiation. A Powder Springs .45 ACP model in great shape even. You sound very elitist and I disagree with you on almost everything you've said. To say there is no collectability in a MAC is just completely false. You dont even know about the Lage uppers and thats saying something, Macs dont have to be uncomfortable to shoot, thats why the Lage uppers exist. Macs dont have to be bullet hoses, thats why the Lage uppers exist... Macs were first made/intended for the US military (i.e. "Military Armament Corporation"), intended to hopefully be a replacement for the 1911 (at least thats what they told the investors), the military did buy some and they saw some use in covert ops in Vietnam. Suggest watching Ians video on them here: Acting like these are not collectable is patently absurd, along with the garbage dig at "people with little disposable income". You're so elitist and pompous that its painful to read. Edited April 3 by Juggar 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 I'm well aware of all the lage stuff available. And it all looks like something a person constructed in shop class rather than a high quality firearm with a lot of time spent on ergonomics and refinement. UZIs are historic and useful, MACs were a novelty before lage and now, they are just abominations. Like I said previously, if all you want to do is shoot as many different calibers downrange as fast as possible and on a budget, a MAC is just the thing for you. As far as your comment about being elitist goes, you won't offend me by categorizing me as such. I believe in owning the best of what's available. Quality is worth paying for and I feel no shame in that at all. Some people have full wrench sets in both metric and imperial sizes, open and box end, with many other variations. Other people have just a Cresant wrench. Will the Cresant wrench do the job? Probably. But not well and not professionally. A MAC with lage stuff is the Cresant wrench of the MG world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffshot Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 I love them all but prefer the uzi. The lage uppers are nice and the cfw bolts make them even better, but now you're approaching Uzi prices. Also, the lage uppers have an aluminum charging handle which is a negative. Had one bend so not exactly robust materials. Doesn't really matter which you choose because these are both good options. Get whichever one you can afford at this time and then get the other one down the road. They are both worth owning and will make you super cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPFAZ Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 I recommend that you buy what brings you the most happiness: some are happy to shoot their MGs, some are happy to own and occasionally shoot a MG that brings back a strong memory of a time period or friend, others are happy to create their own personal museum that they curate with what they believe are the best available versions of MGs, and still other are happy to use their MGs as a hedge against inflation or a potential investment. For me, I only own three MGs: the first I bought was a M2HB as I always wanted one and I have many other Browning designed firearms, the second was a M11/9 that I purchased so that my family and friends would be exposed to the most variety in a MG at the lowest cost point as I have a lage upper in 22LR, 9mm, and 5.56, the last one was an UZI bolt gun that I purchased because it was an iconic MG and I won it at an action for under $10k with a UZI model B host. As to shooting them, I personally enjoy shooting the UZI suppressed the most, however when I go shooting the M11/9 is always the most popular among others. The M2HB I enjoy shooting but it takes a lot more planning and preparation to take out and thus sees less trigger time. I believe MGs will continue to hold value as there does not seem to be any likelihood of allowing more transferable MGs to be added to the registry in the current political climate. However, I am cautious about paying too much for some collectible MGs as I question if the market will still be there in the future. As an example with the boomer generation aging out I expect the hot rod/classic car market will experience a price correction as younger generations do not share the same affinity or attraction to that style of automobile (ie. a little due coupe). I suspect the same will happen eventually with the high end priced Thompson, grease gun, and MP40 market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark5 Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 This is sort like going to the boatyard and asking if you should buy the big boat or the bigger boat. The most expensive part usually ends up being the recurring costs like putting fuel in the boat and slip fees. Get what you can afford or get what you want if you can afford it. Availability is the biggest limitation for a lot of buyers. Highly reccomend a 22lr conversion if you're looking to save some nickels. Limited quantity combined with limited access generally means value goes up over time either way you jump in the NFA world, but I wouldn't bank on it as an investment. The reality is that it is all a signature away from being worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45pulse Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 20 hours ago, Chef said: Transferable UZI bolts are worth less than RR UZIs, and RR UZIs go for around $17 for an IMI and $18 for a Vector in VG condition. So a bolt with a fullsize host might pull $15k on a good day if it's mint. And I don't know when the last time I saw a MAC go for $10k, maybe a year ago? They are in the $11-$12k range now. And the choice for you seems to have been super clear, but only from a "sending as many different caliber bullets downrange as fast as possible" viewpoint. Something you might fail to realize is that of all of the reasons people choose to to own a MG, that is not the primary one. As an example, I will submit the M3 greasegun. It is one caliber only, (45) and it's the slowest ROF subgun there is. It has 0 ability to be converted to any other caliber (unless you possess one of the rare, WW2 9mm conversion kits) and yet it is one of the most expensive transferable subguns there is. So why would people want to spend $45k on such a weapon when for that same money, they could get 4 MACs? Because MACs have no collector value, no historical value and are uncomfortable to shoot and ugly AF. They are more like the "cybertruck" of the MG world. If you see someone shooting one at the range, the thought that goes goes through your head isn't "Oh wow! That's so cool! It looks like the same one used in all those cool films!", or "it's just like what my father carried in the war!" No. It's more like "Ew, what kind of home made junk is that?" unless you're a kid and get easily impressed just by the sound of FA fire. The MAC has 0 ergonomics and doesn't give off a vibe of being finely engineered, designed or well built. If a MAC was a handgun, it wouldn't be a Colt, S&W, HK or even a Glock. It would be a HiPoint. They are only sought by people with little disposable income who want to shoot FA for as cheaply as possible. Huh? I purchased multiple macs cause they are great with lage uppers and have a great aftermarket for replacement parts and ARE collectible… Id prob try out a few different setups with lage uppers before forming an opinion. I recently purchased an uzi as well and hold them in the same regard… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPFiveO Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 Lots of good points made in this thread and some more opinionated than others. I've been collecting machine guns since 1992. I currently own over a dozen various types. Over the years I've discovered a lot about the joy and pitfalls of NFA ownership. Here's a few points to consider... While MAC's ( MAC 10, MAC 10/9, MAC 11, M11/9's, etc) are usually the lowest priced machine guns in the market it doesn't necessarily mean that they're only for the poor's. No machine guns are priced reasonably today as far as I'm concerned. They actually offer a lot of flexibility thank to the efforts of Richard Lage. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. While some may not care for the looks of the Lage products, one cannot argue that they don't perform as advertised. One of my M11/9's has a Lage upper and it is one of my favorite ones to shoot. The slow rate of fire makes it easy to introduce to novice shooters and it's not intimidating like the stock M11/9 with it's high rate of fire and limited real estate for controlling it not to mention the flimsy factory stock. As covered ad nauseam, there are caliber conversions for the MAC's that most other Subguns do not enjoy. A .45 caliber MAC can be converted to 9mm and 5.56mm. Those conversions work quite well. I have a Fleming .22 conversion for the M11/9 that uses 10/22 magazines and it works pretty well but the rate of fire makes it useful at a very limited distance. Many of the .22 conversion kits have been discontinued for one reason or another and the prices on the secondary market have increased commensurately. The thing about .22 kits is they either run out of the box or they require a certain amount of tinkering to get running right. Many folks just don't have the patience for that. A for caliber conversions, the Uzi lacks the ability to shoot 5.56mm but it does shoot 9mm, .45 and .22 with exceptional reliability. Well, except for .22... I recently acquired a Group Industries kit for my Group/Vector Uzi and it won't run in my gun yet. There's a tight spot somewhere. I tested the kit in a post sample Uzi and it was flawless with the two magazines it came with. My Uzi is flawless in 9mm and .45 ACP however. My .45 lower was built by Chris Humphries and the bolt and barrel are IMI. It uses Grease Gun magazines so it has plenty of capacity and availability of magazines. I can't say which of the two I would prefer to own since I own both and they each fill a slightly different role. As pointed out so eloquently, the poor man's bullet hose MAC has a lot going for it if you want to be able to change calibers and shoot them fast. On the flip side there's the battle proven Uzi which is iconic due to it's press coverage. But honestly, most of us buy these guns to shoot, not because it showed up on the evening news. The MAC is just as recognizable from the movie industry. Pro's and con's aside, I like them both. If I had to invest in one it would be the Uzi. If I wanted one that offered the most flexibility it would be the MAC. This was only briefly touched on, but if this is your first machine gun it probably won't be your last. Start out with whichever one you want the most for your own reasons. Then start saving up for the next one. My first SMG was a HK MP5 but I still wanted more even though most consider it to be the best SMG as far as shootability. At one point I had over a half dozen MAC types. I still wanted different ones though. Later came the Uzi. Then a MK760 and then another. The most recent acquisition was a M3 Grease Gun. Bonus because I already had plenty of magazines for the Uzi kit and MAC's. Even though I have some of the most highly regarded and sought after SMG's I'd still like to add a few more to the collection. A Sten, Reising and maybe a M1 Thompson. A Sterling if the right deal came along. These are holes in my collection because they shoot differently than the others. I enjoy the various mechanically different aspects each has to offer. I don't think you'd go wrong purchasing an Uzi or a MAC. They're both tremendously fun to shoot. They each have their own cadence. Try out one of each and see which one speaks to you. Let your conscience be your guide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhouston8 Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 I own a bunch of Uzis and Mac variants. I always take an Uzi along with me to the range and rarely take a Mac. So there's that. Real life experience. I don't crap on either about quality and all that jazz. Look....what you are buying is the stamp of legality. Both guns have only a few hundred bucks of design/metal in them, etc. They are both stamped and were produced cheap. Both have their own storied history too. I'd say THE decision point IS: do you intend and want to shoot different cals- specifically rifle cal like 223 in it? If cal change ability is valuable to you then get the Mac and feel good about it. IF however you plan to shoot only 9mm ...then get the Uzi. Long ago I was BIG into cal changes/options on various mgs...and over the years I found that I just really best enjoy shooting the mg in the cal. it was originally designed for. Screw cal conversions basically. But if you have a tight budget, don't plan on buying more mgs, and want various cals....then get the Mac for flexibility. There. It's that simple as I see it. Cal changes or Not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Wales Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 UZI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflejunky Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 Uzi with a wood stock and suppressor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootnDull Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 Having shot both...I must say that there is no comparison. The Mac 10 just is not in the same class as the UZI. However they are both submachine guns and are both inferior to the MP5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 16 hours ago, ShootnDull said: Having shot both...I must say that there is no comparison. The Mac 10 just is not in the same class as the UZI. However they are both submachine guns and are both inferior to the MP5. You're not the sharpest stick, are you. Who asked anything about a Mp5? Why don't you compare the MAC and UZI to minigun while you're at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2 Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 But what works for you and enjoy it. As said the MAC and M16 are probably the most accessary friendly hosts out there. Mp5 is definitely the Gold Standard in SMG’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2 Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 38 minutes ago, Mark2 said: Buy what works for you and enjoy it. As said the MAC and M16 are probably the most accessary friendly hosts out there. Mp5 is definitely the Gold Standard in SMG’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don. Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 I like how someone’s indecision always devolves into an internet pissing contest to prove the other guy’s opinion wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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