secondofangle Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 (edited) I just received what was described as a “new in wrapper“ M-16 upper. Colt Gray 1980s vintage it was listed as a 653 upper but it’s really a 723 upper because it is a 1:7 twist. That makes it an Israeli dispense forces upper. it matches an M-16 A2 factory full auto gun that I have. I received it today from a well-known Pennsylvania dealer. The thing is in decent shape, but it is hardly new in wrapper. There is wear on the bolt carrier, the inside of the receiver, nobody even bothered to clean the weapon, there is carbon everywhere. The dealer said we stand behind our product when I emailed immediately after receiving it. He said Send it back, which is fine and probably what I will do. I’m just disappointed that it could be so poorly described. I mean who titles an ad “new in wrapper” and then sells a dirty used product? The other conflict I have is, where am I ever going to find another upper like this? it’s not that I really need it and I never shoot that M-16 A2, but I figured it would add to the value if I had a matching, spare upper with it. I don’t have an online photo service or I would post a photo of the obviously worn internal upper receiver and bolt carrier and a handful of pieces absolutely covered in carbon What would you do? Edited March 16 by secondofangle 703–> 723 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 just send it bac k, it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondofangle Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 That’s what I’m likely to do it is worrisome however when a dealer of $50,000 machine guns is so careless in describing an item. I’m getting PMs from people guessing exactly who it is because this apparently is not a first occurrence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkg3k Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, secondofangle said: I don’t have an online photo service or I would post a photo of the obviously worn internal upper receiver and bolt carrier and a handful of pieces absolutely covered in carbon What would you do? A mistake was made and the dealer is willing to make it right. You really can't ask for more than that, regardless of whether it's an easy or hard to find item. If you paid "new in wrapper" money, but received excellent condition used...I'd definitely send it back, unless it matches or betters the condition of the A2. In that case, you need to decide whether you're willing to eat the premium. BTW...you don't need a photo service to post pics here. You can upload them straight from your computer. The option "Drag files here to attach, or choose files..." is on the bottom of the text box. Good luck with whatever you decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondofangle Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 Thanks for the insight guys. Admirably, you all are in invoking Hanlon’s razor: never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. And I suppose that’s the right attitude to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron in Mohnton Pa Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 (edited) This is not in any way a shot at any dealers …. But, just because somebody is a dealer (even a long time dealer) , does not mean they are experts on the items they are selling… It isn't uncommon for guys to list something as new (when it is in extremely nice condition) , when it is in fact used (I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it happens)….. Sometimes this is intentional deception, BUT, sometimes it is also just a mistake due to lack of technical knowledge on a specific machine gun and where to look for even the slightest wear to see if something was used. I see M60s listed as unfired now and then and I can immediately tell they were fired. I think most of the guys selling them just don’t know and are repeating what they were told by the person they bought it from. As others have mentioned, if the dealer offered a full refund and makes it right then I would be satisfied and maybe think twice about buying something from them listed as new ….. If I was charged a restocking fee or something due to their misleading post then I would be mad and take issue with it. Hope it works out for you and is a painless transaction whether you keep it or not. Aaron - Mohnton, Pa Edited March 15 by Aaron in Mohnton Pa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 Personally, I’d keep it if it matches your A2 lower. I assume you mean it’s a 723 upper, not a 703? Is the upper receiver a C7 with brass deflector or an A1? Pencil contour 1:7? It’s a rare upper, regardless of whether it was correctly represented/described. Unless you grossly overpaid for “new”, I say keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondofangle Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 (edited) One and seven twist, pencil barrel, teardrop forward assist, no brass deflector. “2” marked flip sights on the Carrie handle. ETA you’re right I meant 723 not 703. I had my #s confused. I paid $875 shipped for it Edited March 15 by secondofangle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 4 minutes ago, secondofangle said: One and seven twist, pencil barrel, A2, hand, guards, teardrop forward assist, no brass deflector. A1 sites on the Carrie handle. Early model 723 carbine upper. Great upper. I have one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltm723 Posted March 16 Report Share Posted March 16 (edited) 12 hours ago, secondofangle said: One and seven twist, pencil barrel, teardrop forward assist, no brass deflector. “2” marked flip sights on the Carrie handle. ETA you’re right I meant 723 not 703. I had my #s confused. I paid $875 shipped for it I have a transferable colt M16a2 model 723...that $875 price for a complete 14.5" upper (IMO) is a good deal. I would keep it if it matches and all else is equal It's about principle...and the description vs actual sucks. Being the dealer is standing behind the deal and offered to refund your money, I'd keep the upper and move on with life...no sense cutting off your nose to spite your face. That said, I'd probably not do business with that dealer in the future unless you got consideration for this deal Edited March 16 by Coltm723 clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Posted March 16 Report Share Posted March 16 Dealer made a mistake. Proves that he is human. Offers to take it back to fix situation. Other than some disappointment and a little time back and forth to the post office what are you really "out"? From my perspective I would not see this as a big deal. I would chalk it up as a disappointment that was fixed and move on. I'm not sure that I would expect any special treatment / consideration from them. They're already out the cost for sending it back and forth, and their time for the same. I'm sure that they're not happy about it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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