Dean Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 I went and looked at a host for my registered M2 kit yesterday. It was a plainfield marked M2 with no full auto parts except the stock. Owner was older gentleman who said he had since the 70's. I wanted to get some clarity before I purchase. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abody711 Posted June 27, 2023 Report Share Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) All M2s are considered NFA by ATF from what I have read. Can't say if true or false. Edited June 27, 2023 by Abody711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted June 27, 2023 Report Share Posted June 27, 2023 Some of those m2 mark carbines were once sold by the cmp and are exempt. I wouldn’t worry to much about it honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okrana Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Do you have any written confirmation that M2 carbines were sold by the CMP? TIA Okrana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x50plt Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Yes having proof that the CMP once sold them would be very helpful because I've always heard once a machine gun always a machine gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted June 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 On the other hand what if it is a transferable M2? How would you find out? Even then without knowing who was on the original form how could it be transferred? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-history/u-s-government-sold-nearly-a-quarter-million-illegal-rifles-to-citizens/# Start here with this one it address 250,000 that illegally surplus m1’s I’m still looking for the article about the cmp selling m2 semi auto carbines it’s been posted here before once upon a time. So it might help looking threw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflejunky Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guide-identification-firearms-section-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflejunky Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 If the gun Dean looked at was a Plainfield M-2 then it would be a commercial gun and not anything the CMP ever sold. So regardless of any exemption that may or may not have been made for the CMP the Plainfield gun marked M-2 would run afoul of the ATF. ATF plainly states that any carbine marked M-2 is to be considered a machinegun. If you are curious about a particular gun then get the serial number and call the NFA branch. They can tell you if it's on the registry. This being said I would keep the part about the M-2 markings to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 hour ago, riflejunky said: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guide-identification-firearms-section-1 Do you know any one who’s ever been convicted for having a m1 that was semi auto that some one over stamped a 2? I’ve never heard of it or seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Find a firearms savvy lawyer and have them contact ATF to see if it's in the registry. That way your identity and that of the current owner if he is not the owner of record remains unknown to ATF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflejunky Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Thumpy said: Do you know any one who’s ever been convicted for having a m1 that was semi auto that some one over stamped a 2? I’ve never heard of it or seen it. Would you want to be the first? I wouldn't when there are literally millions of others readily available. Not to mention I personally would never buy a commercial carbine from the seventies or eighties as they were notoriously poorly constructed. We had a factory full auto commercial carbine years ago and it was a total POS. If I had a registered kit I would find a nice cmp carbine with an M2 stock and use that with my kit. That's just me. I don't have any desire to push the boundaries of the ATF concerning NFA items. I know a guy who thought he could do what he wanted. His eight years in federal prison ends in 16 days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, riflejunky said: Would you want to be the first? I wouldn't when there are literally millions of others readily available. Not to mention I personally would never buy a commercial carbine from the seventies or eighties as they were notoriously poorly constructed. We had a factory full auto commercial carbine years ago and it was a total POS. If I had a registered kit I would find a nice cmp carbine with an M2 stock and use that with my kit. That's just me. I don't have any desire to push the boundaries of the ATF concerning NFA items. I know a guy who thought he could do what he wanted. His eight years in federal prison ends in 16 days. What did your friend do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okrana Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 Actually, this is a topic that will sooner or later come up. I suspect it will be an interesting court case. Some facts: 1-"Once a machine gun always a machine gun" Not true, in at least two cases. There is the case, in California IIRC, that a surplus British semiauto FAl was deemed by the judge to indeed be a true semiauto, even though it apparently was made on an FAL receiver that considered a machine gun. More recently, Fleming registered right at the 1986 cutoff date, some factory semiautos HK91s as machine guns. For some reason he wanted to CHANGE THEM BACK TO SEMI (talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!) He prevailed and the guns were allowed to be semiauto again. Matter went to court and he won. 2-Sooner or later (say maybe from Korea?) a whole bunch of M1 carbines will come in. It is an outdated military weapon, shooting an obsolete caliber and, aside from a few countries where collectors may buy a few, they are destined for the ever hungry US market. The figur I keep hearing is about 600,000+-...Yes, that is a butt/boat load of them. I would be willing to bet that a number of the are M1s overstamped into M2. Now, the fun begins. The gun was born a semiauto. Some parts were added to make it a full auto. Think of this as adding an M2 parts kit.A new marking was added in the form of a number 2. If, the full auto parts are removed, then it becomes a semiauto, as it was made originally. But, what about the extra 2 markings? Well, if you mark them with, say, your grandmother's nickname, it does not change the fact they were born a semiauto. 3-I suspect that the Big Dogs in the importing business have thought this out and must be waiting for Korea (and others, with lesser amounts of carbines) to release them. Having two precedents as mentioned above should help their case. It should be interesting. Okrana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 3 hours ago, riflejunky said: .... If I had a registered kit I would find a nice cmp carbine with an M2 stock and use that with my kit. Actually full auto fire is known to sometimes stretch Carbine receivers. Keeping the nice CMP gun for display purposes and putting the M2 kit in an otherwise worthless Plainfield makes all the sense in the world. Putting it in a Plainfield M2 that is an unregistered is begging for trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflejunky Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Thumpy said: What did your friend do? Took possession of a NFA gun before the paperwork cleared and then offered the gun for sale on his website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 3 hours ago, riflejunky said: Took possession of a NFA gun before the paperwork cleared and then offered the gun for sale on his website. What happened to the firearm? Confiscated and destroyed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 8 hours ago, riflejunky said: Took possession of a NFA gun before the paperwork cleared and then offered the gun for sale on his website. I don’t believe you. No way he got 8 years for that what else did he do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
United Surplus Arms Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, Thumpy said: I don’t believe you. No way he got 8 years for that what else did he do? https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdga/pr/local-firearms-dealer-convicted-possessing-unregistered-destructive-device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, shiklg said: https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdga/pr/local-firearms-dealer-convicted-possessing-unregistered-destructive-device From the looks of it If your friend would have paid his bill an not tried to scam some one he would Be a free man today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted June 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 Also I understand you cant remove or change serial numbers. What about filing off the M2 and touch it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflejunky Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Thumpy said: From the looks of it If your friend would have paid his bill an not tried to scam some one he would Be a free man today. I said I know a guy. I never said he was my friend. I am aware of the circumstances, rumors, stories and what not surrounding his case. He owed me a gun at the time. However he didn't get prosecuted for bad checks Edited June 29, 2023 by riflejunky grammatical error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 18 hours ago, Dean said: Also I understand you cant remove or change serial numbers. What about filing off the M2 and touch it up? You'd be better off just putting a spot of weld over the "2" and carefully filling it down and stamping a "1" in it's place and then refinishing it. I would think the missing number would be a red flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Wales Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 You'd be better off having your lawyer call ATF to arrange it's surrender without penalty. I don't know why reading comprehension is such an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaRenegade86 Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 Personally, I'd just avoid the headache and wouldn't dick with it. Instead, I'd buy one of the seven Plainfield M1s off of GunBroker and call it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted June 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 Cause his price was $450 with 6 30rd mags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaRenegade86 Posted July 1, 2023 Report Share Posted July 1, 2023 31 minutes ago, Dean said: Cause his price was $450 with 6 30rd mags. I get that the monetary savings (50%) is appealing, but is it worth the headache to you if it should it turn out to be: 1.) A papered machinegun that isn't registered to you? 2.) An un-papered machinegun? At the end of the day, it's up to you to decide if you get it or not. My understanding is that Plainfield didn't manufacture semi-auto M-2's. That would be enough to give me pause if I were presented with such a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike in pa Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 8:57 AM, shiklg said: https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdga/pr/local-firearms-dealer-convicted-possessing-unregistered-destructive-device Yep I remember that incident very well. I have a Lahti and remember that type of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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