coolrider Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 Sorry if this is the wrong forum to ask about this if it is let me know and I will delete it. I have a HK94 converted to an MP5SD by RDTS I do not have the suppressor for it, but Ralph does still make them. I have searched sales of these but most of them are older listings or they were not built off of an HK94. There are some currently on Gunbroker and Side arm Sams but for big money. The closest to what I have that I have seen recently went for $14,000 on Gunbroker with a suppressor and an optic. What would a realistic amount be for me to ask for mine? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbntex Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) While a German HK94 host is a bonus for the price, the challenge with this gun is its not a factory correct SD conversion. The other bonuses is the remark is clean, it has a paddle installed, and has an A3 stock. The downside is it still has a modified HK94 cocking tube vs. a true SD cocking tube, the barrel if its RDTS is almost certain to be a HK94 barrel cut down and ported that won't accept a factory M18x1 thread pitch suppressor (so you are more or less locked into an RDTS suppressor), and the SD cage is most likely a RDTS made cage and not German OEM cage. It also has what appears to be a PTR grip frame on it. The unknowns are the bolt carrier (welded up or factory full auto), the locking piece (modded/ground HK94, RCM, or Factory German MP5SD), Bolt Head (standard, A3, or F), is the semi-auto trigger group PTR or German? Value, the HK94 is worth say $6500 with the A3 stock. The conversion cost from RDTS for SD like the one you have is ~$3000ish including the suppressor. Lets say there is a factory full auto carrier ($500) and some other misc. bits. All in the sum of the parts and labor is maybe $10K to $11K. The other detriment unless you are a FFL/SOT is this is going to be a two F4 transfer gun for most buyers. You could start the price in the low teens and see if there are any takers that have to have a HK94 for their sear and don't want to bother with a build themselves and will pay a premium for an existing built gun. Then drop $500 every two to four weeks until you find a buyer. The higher dollar SDs you see for sale in the upper teens to approaching $20K are generally all factory German parts conversions and include a high end suppressor. An MP5SD front end with the factory cage, barrel, and cocking tube is a $6K to $8K component depending upon condition and buyers at the time. Good luck and hope this helps. Edited June 2, 2023 by jbntex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolrider Posted June 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, jbntex said: While a German HK94 host is a bonus for the price, the challenge with this gun is its not a factory correct SD conversion. The other bonuses is the remark is clean, it has a paddle installed, and has an A3 stock. The downside is it still has a modified HK94 cocking tube vs. a true SD cocking tube, the barrel if its RDTS is almost certain to be a HK94 barrel cut down and ported that won't accept a factory M18x1 thread pitch suppressor (so you are more or less locked into an RDTS suppressor), and the SD cage is most likely a RDTS made cage and not German OEM cage. It also has what appears to be a PTR grip frame on it. The unknowns are the bolt carrier (welded up or factory full auto), the locking piece (modded/ground HK94, RCM, or Factory German MP5SD), Bolt Head (standard, A3, or F), is the semi-auto trigger group PTR or German? Value, the HK94 is worth say $6500 with the A3 stock. The conversion cost from RDTS for SD like the one you have is ~$3000ish including the suppressor. Lets say there is a factory full auto carrier ($500) and some other misc. bits. All in the sum of the parts and labor is maybe $10K to $11K. The other detriment unless you are a FFL/SOT is this is going to be a two F4 transfer gun for most buyers. You could start the price in the low teens and see if there are any takers that have to have a HK94 for their sear and don't want to bother with a build themselves and will pay a premium for an existing built gun. Then drop $500 every two to four weeks until you find a buyer. The higher dollar SDs you see for sale in the upper teens to approaching $20K are generally all factory German parts conversions and include a high end suppressor. An MP5SD front end with the factory cage, barrel, and cocking tube is a $6K to $8K component depending upon condition and buyers at the time. Good luck and hope this helps. Wow thank you! That was a lot of helpful information. You pretty much nailed every aspect. Yes, good eye that is a PTR trigger group. This gun came with my sear pack so since I am keeping that I put a spare PTR lower on it that I had. The gun is setup for full auto. The bolt has the same marking on it that my other HK94 had. Yes, the barrel is a RDTS the old style. So, when I bought this the sear, and sbr were on a form 3 and the suppressor was on a form 4 all out of state. So, since the suppressor would be $400 in transfer fees, I told them to keep it and I ordered a TPM suppressor. Once the TPM suppressor and the HK arrived I realized the threads were different. Not too long after that my TPM built MP5SD arrived too, so I just stuck the HK in the safe and that is where it has been since which is why I am considering selling it. I will attach photos on the internals below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbntex Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) The bolt head is an IG date code so its the original HK94 bolt head so its not an upgraded Action 3 or F bolt head. The carrier also looks welded up to me as well as the ramp took the parkerizing differently and you can see the line between the added ramp area and the original carrier. The locking piece is isn't in the right orientation to see the markings on the other side to determine what LP it is but it sort of looks like it may be a reground 94 LP from the roller engagement angles. IMHO, these guns are a bit of a tough sell in todays market. Most non-sear owners who want a SBR semi-auto only German MP5SD will just start with a ~$2700 SP5 as a base gun have all the same mods done by RDTS, Ralph Jr, etc. for ~$3K and be into an identical "German" receiver host MP5SD for ~$6000 to $7000ish including the suppressor. For a few dollars more they can have it built with a B&T SD barrel that will have the factory correct threads so it will take a standard SD suppressor as well. You have a relatively rare/expensive HK94 host receiver that most non-sear owners who want a semi-auto gun are not going to pay a premium for. So your target market is the sear owner who wants the HK94 without the complications of making an SP5 based SD host sear compatible. However this gun has bunch of modified, non-standard and/or US made parts in the mix. Even the benefit of all German trigger pack / no-922r parts required is negated as it has a US made PTR trigger group on it. The potential future owner is also going to have to get RDTS (or some other custom builder) to make them a suppressor as well which is going to be a time-consuming PITA. Just about anybody who bought a sear in the past decade has at least $30K or more in the sear and most likely if they are going to spend five digits on an SD will also have the financial ability to spend in the upper teens on a factory correct conversion. So you are most likely going to need to find a sear owner in your State who wants a budget German HK94 based SD host but is also willing to pay a premium price over an almost identical SP5 based build to get away from the bolt on trip ramp carrier or having a full size shelf put on to cut the block out. My best guess to sell this SBR its most likely going to need to be at $10K or under to get somebody to bite. Much more than $10K and most budget oriented sear owner based buyers are just going to do an SP5, TPM, or PTR based MP5SD host. Go much more than $10K and the premium buyers are just going to spend a bit more money and get a factory correct conversion with all German parts and that will take a B&T or Knights suppressor. Edited June 2, 2023 by jbntex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolrider Posted June 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 55 minutes ago, jbntex said: The bolt head is an IG date code so its the original HK94 bolt head so its not an upgraded Action 3 or F bolt head. The carrier also looks welded up to me as well as the ramp took the parkerizing differently and you can see the line between the added ramp area and the original carrier. The locking piece is isn't in the right orientation to see the markings on the other side to determine what LP it is but it sort of looks like it may be a reground 94 LP from the roller engagement angles. IMHO, these guns are a bit of a tough sell in todays market. Most non-sear owners who want a SBR semi-auto only German MP5SD will just start with a ~$2700 SP5 as a base gun have all the same mods done by RDTS, Ralph Jr, etc. for ~$3K and be into an identical "German" receiver host MP5SD for ~$6000 to $7000ish including the suppressor. For a few dollars more they can have it built with a B&T SD barrel that will have the factory correct threads so it will take a standard SD suppressor as well. You have a relatively rare/expensive HK94 host receiver that most non-sear owners who want a semi-auto gun are not going to pay a premium for. So your target market is the sear owner who wants the HK94 without the complications of making an SP5 based SD host sear compatible. However this gun has bunch of modified, non-standard and/or US made parts in the mix. Even the benefit of all German trigger pack / no-922r parts required is negated as it has a US made PTR trigger group on it. The potential future owner is also going to have to get RDTS (or some other custom builder) to make them a suppressor as well which is going to be a time-consuming PITA. Just about anybody who bought a sear in the past decade has at least $30K or more in the sear and most likely if they are going to spend five digits on an SD will also have the financial ability to spend in the upper teens on a factory correct conversion. So you are most likely going to need to find a sear owner in your State who wants a budget German HK94 based SD host but is also willing to pay a premium price over an almost identical SP5 based build to get away from the bolt on trip ramp carrier or having a full size shelf put on to cut the block out. My best guess to sell this SBR its most likely going to need to be at $10K or under to get somebody to bite. Much more than $10K and most budget oriented sear owner based buyers are just going to do an SP5, TPM, or PTR based MP5SD host. Go much more than $10K and the premium buyers are just going to spend a bit more money and get a factory correct conversion with all German parts and that will take a B&T or Knights suppressor. Thank you much appreciated. I will go ahead and list it now that I have a realistic price range for it. Thanks again and have a great weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 I agree with the comments above. The big thing now is if it’s an Hk94 converted into an SD, it has to have all German parts to bring the big money. You can buy a a TPM built SD or a PTR SD conversion between $4k-$5k with suppressor and they are correct based on appearance. The cocking tube not being a true SD unit does take away from your gun. Given the comments above and knowing the “SD clone” market, I’d say your selling number is going the be between $8k-$9.5k and even then I’d almost lay money it’ll be someone who has a sear will buy it and send it to someone to have it done up correctly-barrel, cocking tube, etc. Just my humble opinion for what it’s worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaels Machines Posted June 7, 2023 Report Share Posted June 7, 2023 I sell brand new German SP5 (better guns than a 94) SD conversions with German correct parts and my spec barrel or B&T barrel with German spec new transferable can for $7K. The new German guns have put a hurt on the old 94 gun market. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 On 6/6/2023 at 8:48 PM, Michaels Machines said: I sell brand new German SP5 (better guns than a 94) SD conversions with German correct parts and my spec barrel or B&T barrel with German spec new transferable can for $7K. The new German guns have put a hurt on the old 94 gun market. MM Do you remove the sear block and weld a legacy 9x shelf on those so they can be sear hosts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGTedFL Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) Great analysis. concur with all. Thank you all! JB, MM, etc. I have learned much from reading this thread...or most likely been reminded of details lost to the fog of time. Can't remember which....... FYI, I do not think you can remove the carrier block, but I just bought one of the carriers that has a removable trip. Funny, I don't have an SP-5, but in the world of HK, things can be here today....and gone tomorrow, so I grabbed one. BTW, my favorite MP5 platforms were all built by Mike Turner from AZ, IIRC he worked for Todd Bailey (SW) or possibly T. Dyer at one time. Best weld-work of any HK's I have (even better than OEM). (Full disclosure, I do not have any of MM's guns....yet; though we have talked extensively at the Creek) I have three Turner MP5's, a MP5k-PDW and a MP5 Reverse Stretch: K-front, standard rear. All are built on LSC flats using German parts, where availablle....the RS barrel is RIM Co., and special-length recoil rod) They all just run and run and run. All my HK94-derived stuff stays in the safe, except for the RDTS MP5SD.....as I have no clone for that gun. Now, back on topic......I have almost the exact same RDTS MP5SD (vice HK94) as pictured above, I picked-up years ago. Properly remarked, refinished...and the F4 line 4h even says "Germany" as the maker...ATF will catch it the next go-round, but I'll be gone by then As customary, Ralph used his unusual American thread (11/16" or 3/4" x 16???), so only a RDTS suppressor can be used, unless you re-barrel with the correct ported German barrel (18x1). Mine has "all-German" internals, F-style bolt head, MP5 carrier and F-style stock. Pretty sure the cage is a RDTS fabrication, with a German foregrip/overgrip -- but still better than the radiator hose that HTA used in the day on their SD's. The can has a FJV-XXX serial #, as it was a part of a group supposedly built for Fred Vollmer. SD never misses a beat, and ssshhhh quiet with 115gr, S&B SB9A. Ralph's special "in the groove" spiral porting is terrific...he also did the special barrel porting for my DLO-DGS-KGB Sterling Mk.V. My SD transfer was a 3-stamp transfer (RDTS MP5SD SBR, FJV-Can and DLO box) ..... wait for it .......$25K. circa 2013-ish.... FWIW, Ted Edited June 14, 2023 by MGTedFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaels Machines Posted June 16, 2023 Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/8/2023 at 10:05 AM, JoshNC said: Do you remove the sear block and weld a legacy 9x shelf on those so they can be sear hosts? Removing the block has never been an issue. People in the business that shouldn't be start rumors as they have no idea what they are talking about. I digress...... MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, Michaels Machines said: Removing the block has never been an issue. People in the business that shouldn't be start rumors as they have no idea what they are talking about. I digress...... MM I personally don’t see why removing the block would be an issue at all if a standard 9x semi shelf is added. A guy on arfcom has a letter about this in the context of mke or pof front pushpin guns and ATF states it’s fine to remove the block so long as a shelf is added prior to removing the blocking bar. Edited June 17, 2023 by JoshNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Side Arm Sams Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 11:10 PM, JoshNC said: I personally don’t see why removing the block would be an issue at all if a standard 9x semi shelf is added. A guy on arfcom has a letter about this in the context of mke or pof front pushpin guns and ATF states it’s fine to remove the block so long as a shelf is added prior to removing the blocking bar. On 6/6/2023 at 8:48 PM, Michaels Machines said: I sell brand new German SP5 (better guns than a 94) SD conversions with German correct parts and my spec barrel or B&T barrel with German spec new transferable can for $7K. The new German guns have put a hurt on the old 94 gun market. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.