SPF - WTT/WTS High Std C&R M2HB - SPF

[carversc]

WTT/WTS High Standard C&R M2 with mounts, 2x barrels, ammo, links, spares and accessories as shown.

Reduced to $65k (or offer?) for the entire package, or make offer for individual items you want.  Also interested in combination of $ & trade for transferable 1919 (gun or RHSP) or maybe HK21?  Or transferable M16 lower, lightning link, DIAS, or 9mm MACs possible as well.

Package includes

- High Standard receiver SN 1065xxx in M2HB config.  Reweld/weld repair RHSP.

- 2x barrels, one might be stellite

- M3 tripod, pintle, T&E

- M31-style pedestal mount with M23 equilabrator cradle w/ extra pin, ammo can tray and canvas cover.

- 200 rounds linked APIT

- M7 linker/delinker & bucket of links

- Headspace & timing gages

- Spares: 2x extractors, 1x stripped bolt, 1x driving spring rod assy 

- Misc accessories: heat resistant mit, ruptured case extractor, cleaning rods & brushes.

This is not an all-original gun, but it is a great shooter!   Condition of all items is as pictured. 

Buyer pays transfer(s) (for the M2HB) and actual shipping/transportation costs from SW FL.

All terms and conditions subject to agreement by both buyer and seller.

All NFA, federal, state, local or other applicable laws, rules, regulations, etc. apply.

I have a C&R FFL and can transfer to C&R licensees.

Thanks

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by carversc
Sold pending funds. Thanks.

[Maddog7580]

Can you point out the weld repair on the RH side plate?

[carversc]

Sorry don’t have better photos but if you look just forward of the retracting slide handle you can see irregularities in the surface.  Previous owner described this as a weld repair when I bought it 20+ years ago.  He didn’t elaborate.  As I recall it looks like an angled line across the plate, different shade of gray from the adjoining areas.  Not sure if that means it was cut and rewelded or replaced or what.

i submitted a FOIA request about the gun a few weeks ago, ATF responded they will need more time because it is a “complex request”, if I recall their language correctly.

If any members have knowledge about similar gun histories, please share.  I read a thread not long ago that sounded related but can’t find it now.

I’m happy to get more pics for serious buyers, or better yet arrange an inspection by buyer or someone they trust in SW FL.

 

Thanks for your interest!

[Maddog7580]

Thanks for posting a picture and description of the location of welded area. Additional information will certainly benefit you and bring more clarity to this matter. You might disassembly the gun, get a good look and pictures of the inside, to clarify if RH plate is a reweld. Posting additional detailed pictures would be helpful.

Very nice complete package!

Thanks

 

[Aren]

These came out of California 2008-2010, were cut when dewatted.  40 years later they were sold buy a movie house.
 

USOrdnance rewelded them.

 

Both 1919 and M2s were done this way.

[carversc]

Thanks for the reply Aren.   I don’t think that description completely matches this gun because I bought it in 1999.  There is a complete reweld in the RHSP as you can see in the photos below.  What I don’t know is whether this was truly a repair in the sense that the plate had been damaged, or whether it was deliberately cut as a DEWAT and REWATed later.  Hopefully others might shed more light.

I purchased the gun from Thunder Valley Gatling Gun Company in 1999.  The only written description of the condition was in my “offer to purchase” letter to the previous owner, where I tried to summarize what we had previously discussed on the phone.  I wrote to him, “As you described the gun, it is an original C&R High Standard heavy barrel in very good condition, with the only significant damage being a repair to the left sideplate.”  He faxed back my letter with his signature and date.  Apparently he had verbally described what I later learned was a weld repair to the RIGHT side plate, and I got it wrong.  When I received the gun, I didn’t notice the weld, but I probably wasn’t looking in the right place (left vs right).  It was a while later after I had fired a thousand or two rounds through it that I noticed it.  

As to the gun’s value, I’ll ask for guidance from those more knowledgeable than I.  I priced using machinegunpriceguide.com, backed off a few thousand from the high end for C&R M2’s, then added back for the package of other items I’ve collected over the years that will go with the gun.

Hope this helps. 

  



Thanks.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by carversc
Removed duplicate pics.

[GUNBUGS]

Appears to be a torch cut RSP that has been rewelded. Nice job though. I would expect a welded gun, be it a repair or a rewat, to be closer to 55K with what you have. But, I am usually wrong.

[bigbore]

4 hours ago, GUNBUGS said:

Appears to be a torch cut RSP that has been rewelded. Nice job though. I would expect a welded gun, be it a repair or a rewat, to be closer to 55K with what you have. But, I am usually wrong.

Also not a C&R if it was torch cut and put back together. Unless it was a registered dewat first.

Edited April 17, 2023 by bigbore

[carversc]

Thanks for your comment.  The previous owner indicated it was a C&R. The approved form 4 indicates the manufacturer was High Standard, so wouldn’t that mean the ATF recognized the original manufacture date?  Or if it originally entered the NFRTR before 1973, wouldn’t that make it over 50 and a C&R?
I ‘m still waiting on the FOIA request.

[bigbore]

23 minutes ago, carversc said:

Thanks for your comment.  The previous owner indicated it was a C&R. The approved form 4 indicates the manufacturer was High Standard, so wouldn’t that mean the ATF recognized the original manufacture date?  Or if it originally entered the NFRTR before 1973, wouldn’t that make it over 50 and a C&R?
I ‘m still waiting on the FOIA request.

Non C&R guns have accidentally transfer as C&R by mistake.  The listed  Manufacturer doesn't really mean anything. You'll need a FOIA to show it was manufactured over 50yrs ago to prove it is a C&R at this point. In 2036, all MGs will be C&R.

Edited April 17, 2023 by bigbore

[carversc]

Reduced.  Trades or offers?

[Austringer]

Im very interested but will wait for the FOIA request to confirm C&R status.

 

Jason

[MGTedFL]

Very nice gun and package.

My 2 cents..... it looks like a cut and rewelded RSP, not a "repair." If it was the LSP, it would have been replaced. I have owned several cut and re-welded receivers, and they looked similar. Park and re-blue always shows the different color shades due to difference in the materials (metal vs. weld).  Sold one, and the buyer insisted that have the gun Cerakoted....but you could still faintly see the weld by texture, but not the color difference, as it was covered in paint.  

So, question(s) for the RKI's:  if this was a registered dewat with rewat (before or after 5/19/1986), it would retain its C&R status? ...and the F4 manufacturer would be the OEM? Also, If it was a cut/torched side plate (parts kit, etc.) that was re-manufactured, (pre 5/19/1986), then the new "manufacturer" should have engraved it, and be listed on the ATF form in box 4a.?

So I can not say I have seen everything....but have seen lots of odd-ball NFA stuff over 40-ish years of firearms collecting.  Forms often have incorrect info on them, especially in the "manufacturer" box 4a. and 4h. "markings". FOIA is the only way to be sure.

 

[carversc]

Thanks all for your comments!  I received an acknowledgment letter with tracking number 2023-00831 for my FOIA request on 28 March.  I requested “any and all info” regarding the make, model & SN on my form 4.  Maybe that was asking too much, because they assigned it to the “complex” track.  See partial text of the letter below.   

I will try to call Monday for a status update, but is there anything else I can do or should ask them for?  Would the original form 1 be necessary to prove one way or another?  Or would any transaction record prior to 1973 suffice?

Thanks again!

This is to acknowledge receipt of your Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request dated March 27, 2023, and received by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) on March 27, 2023, in which you requested records concerning weapon history. The records you seek require a search in at least one other office within ATF, and so your request presents “unusual circumstances” under the FOIA. See 5 U.S.C. § 552(a)(6)(B)(iii)(I). Because of these unusual circumstances, we are extending the time limit to respond to your request beyond the ten additional days provided by the statute. We have not completed a search to determine whether there are records within the scope of your request. The time needed to process your request will depend on the complexity of our records search and on the volume and complexity of any records located. For your information, this office assigns incoming requests to one of three tracks: simple, complex, or expedited. Each request is then handled on a first-in, first-out basis in relation to other requests in the same track. Simple requests usually receive a response in approximately one month, whereas complex requests necessarily take longer. At this time, your request has been assigned to the Complex track. Your request has been placed in chronological order based on the date of receipt and will be handled as quickly as possible when it is assigned for processing. A tracking number has been assigned to your request and is set forth above. Please refer to this number in any future communications regarding this request.

[colossians323]

PM sent

 

[bigbore]

On 4/21/2023 at 8:40 PM, MGTedFL said:

So, question(s) for the RKI's:  if this was a registered dewat with rewat (before or after 5/19/1986), it would retain its C&R status? ...and the F4 manufacturer would be the OEM? Also, If it was a cut/torched side plate (parts kit, etc.) that was re-manufactured, (pre 5/19/1986), then the new "manufacturer" should have engraved it, and be listed on the ATF form in box 4a.?

 

 

A registered DEWAT that is reactivated is still a C&R.   A welded together parts kit would have to be 50yrs old to be C&R.  A welded together parts kit should have the MFG engraved, but that didn't always happen.  Also, back then "engraving" could just be an electro pencil, which after a sandblast a repark would disappear.

[MGTedFL]

Got it. Thanks Bigbore.

Unfortunately...... I think the "831" in your acknowledgement 2023-00831...is the number of days it will take them to send you your requested info  

[carversc]

Sold pending funds.  Thanks!