Shipping risks for Title II Firearms

[lonewolftactical]

I recall reading a thread (it may have been here) regarding the legality's and best methods for shipping Title II Firearms.

The gist was that many carriers FedEx, UPS etc are woke/anti gun and would not honor covering a lost or stolen package if it was determined to be a machine gun.

Like many here, I've always used USPS registered mail as it seems to be the most secure with every person that comes into contact with the package having to sign for it and it's locked in a cage every step of the way.

Looking at the USPS website today, it shows the max insurance for registered mail to be 25k. You can pay additional moneys for items worth more, but it's labeled as a "handling fee" and clearly states in bold that the max insurance coverage is $25,000.00

Many NFA items are well about that mark today so are you taking a risk one way or the other shipping these expensive guns with UPS and USPS?

 

[Chef]

You're always taking a risk shipping anything. And the more it's worth, the greater the risk.
I ship USPS exclusively, and with USP and FedEx having the restrictions in place they do now, it's practically your only option at this point.
That being said, if something gets lost, trying to get a claim paid out from any of the shippers is a nightmare, and I assume the higher dollar the item, the harder it will be to collect.

 

[United Surplus Arms]

You can get supplemental insurance that covers NFA items while being shipped. (Collect Insure, for example)

[bauerdb]

Did you even look at the website?  It clearly says $50k.

[lonewolftactical]

Yes, I was looking at the USPS site for registered mail because it's the most secure here https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2008/html/pb22247/html/not123_063.html#wwfootnote_inline_ep196

It specifically states Fees for articles valued over $25,000 are for handling only. Maximum amount of insurance coverage available is $25,000.

Not sure what "handling only" means, pretty confusing.

[SGT Fish]

Third party insurers are the answer. They also pay out much easier than the USPS or other shippers. 

 

I've seen a lot of gun companies switch to adding an additional insurance charge to their orders(that you can choose to waive). It's typically a dollar or two and you're guaranteed to get your items (eventually). 

[bauerdb]

On 8/16/2023 at 1:14 PM, lonewolftactical said:

Yes, I was looking at the USPS site for registered mail because it's the most secure here https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2008/html/pb22247/html/not123_063.html#wwfootnote_inline_ep196

It specifically states Fees for articles valued over $25,000 are for handling only. Maximum amount of insurance coverage available is $25,000.

Not sure what "handling only" means, pretty confusing.

That is a price list from 2008.  In 2023 it is $50,000.  

[woof]

Yeah I insured my MP5 a couple of years ago for $40k using USPS registered mail. I turned around and everyone was staring at me. One dude said I'd like to know what's in that package ha ha.

Also you can't use plastic tape because they tamper proof by ink stamp. I could find any paper tape locally and had to buy it iff eBay. 

[Bill in Bama]

Yes, USPS is the only way, registered mail insured.  But as has been said, collecting on a claim is a nightmare.  Somewhat related, I mailed a Priority Mail box of STEN mags to the buyer insured, USPS first lost it, then delivered it all torn up with only half the mags still in the package, and I filed a claim.  It's been denied twice and third try is still pending, but I don't hold out much hope.  I know this is a little different from Registered Mail insured, but their bureaucracy is not going to work in your favor.  All this said,  if its a significant chunk of money, person-to-person dealing is the best way if at all feasible.  I delivered two MG's to a buyer in 2020, drove 400 miles each way, but I knew the guns were getting in the buyer's hands.  This was dealer to dealer of course. 

[Slowmo]

I did a deep dive on this when trying to mail an Uzi and a MAC, and my determination was that FedEx with a separate insurance policy was the best way to go for that situation and many subguns in general, but there is no good answer for many MGs.

Short-barreled rifles are not mailable (432.1(b)). The definition of an SBR is not dependent upon the NFA definition. For mailing purposes, "Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels that are less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person." (431.2(c)). The last sentence is extremely nebulous. What is a characteristic that allows concealment? Would a detachable or collapsible stock suffice? Also, if your gun started life as a 16" gun that was converted to FA (like may Uzis), the second-to-last sentence probably applies. It also suggests you can't just remove the stock and call it a pistol. Also confusingly, short-barreled rifles are also considered to be handguns (431.2), which are subject to a bunch of other restrictions (432.2). 

All of the above made me question whether the USPS would actually honor the insurance if my gun was lost, though I also don't know how they would know the dimensions or characteristics if it was lost. Also, if for some reason the government seized your gun because they determined it was non-mailable (again not really sure how they would figure that out, especially without opening it), many insurance policies do not cover government seizure. I'm not sure it is likely, but you can also be subject to criminal prosecution for mailing nonmailable items (431).

FedEx's policies say they will not ship an MG, but they seem to be covered under my interpretation of my insurance policy. I think it is simpler for shipping rifle-length MGs, and USPS is probably the best way to go.

 

EDIT: For clarification, the second and third paragraph relate to USPS shipping regulations. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Slowmo
Clarification

[United Surplus Arms]

1 hour ago, Itachi said:

What does the costs look like?

an annual policy (for a non-dealer) runs about 1% of the policy limits, and it covers theft, fire, and shipments.

[PeterNNH]

What happens if you sold your NFA item to Joe Smokolenskiiipish legal firearms enthusiast in another state and you are transferring to his dealer on form4 and now Joe owns the gun even though its heading to his dealer so are you still insured during transit ??

I am clueless its why I ask ??

Thanks, regards, PeterNNH 

[Dangerfield]

I have a separate policy for firearms including title II items. I had to ship an M-16 receiver for work and the insurance co. said USPS registered mail. No additional insurance needed. It is slower than priority mail but as others have said it gets signed for at every stop. They pay you if something is lost, stolen, or damaged and they pursue recovery from whomever is at fault. 

[Bill in Bama]

I have often wondered about breaking up an NFA firearm into components for shipping.  More costly by a bit, but (say in the instance of an SBR) if you take the barrel off and ship separately from the receiver then you negate the prohibition of shipping SBR's, right?  Maybe moot, I don't know, but just thinking out loud.