A machine gun (no supressor) only needs one tax stamp, right?

[Juggar]

I just got my NFA full auto MAC-10 transfered to me at my FFL today, it was approved in 2 days by the ATF so thats amazing. Anyhow I went to a local range to test it out, they said they allowed full auto guns provided I show them the tax stamp. This Mac-10 has a folding mp5 style stock, and no suppressor came with it. No suppressor was attached. 

So I show up and they ask to see the stamp, the manager then comes out and ask me "Where is the second stamp?". Im like "what on earth are you talking about man?" 

He goes "It has a stock, that makes it an SBR, you need another stamp for the SBR". He said he does all the ATF paperwork so "he knows". So we argue for a bit and it ends in me saying that I respectfully disagree with him. To his credit he did let me shoot, but it really rubbed me the wrong way. 

Am I correct in saying that since this gun started life as a machine gun, that it would never be considered an "SBR" and that you can attach anything you want to it, unless its a suppressor, which would then need its own tax stamp. 

 

Edited March 8 by Juggar

[SGT Fish]

Correct 

 

A machinegun has no minimum barrel length. Same with DDs. 

Edited March 8 by SGT Fish

[Juggar]

1 minute ago, SGT Fish said:

Correct 

 

A machinegun has no minimum barrel length. Same with DDs. 

Thanks, I respectfully stood my ground on the issue , hopefully he learns something from this. He said they dont have many people showing up with private ownership of machine guns. Maybe he just got confused with semi auto guns, had it been a semi auto mac-10 it would have needed the ATF SBR stamp.  

[Firelizzard]

You are correct, Machine Gun trumps everything. It is not an SBR!

[Labanaktis]

As others have said, you are correct.
 

Also, you do not have to “show” your stamp by request from anyone other then ATF/Federal Marshall’s. If a range requires it to shoot then you have to IF you want to shoot there but most have no clue of the laws and just want to make sure you have a “license” for it. I hear it often.

[Gaffshot]

Gun control act defines sbr as a "rifle" under 16".  It then defines "rifle" as basically a semi auto, - i.e. expel one projectile for each pull of trigger etc etc.  Machine gun is defined under a different section and is not a "rifle."  There is no barrel length or stock restriction on machinegun.  

1.  you only need your one stamp registered as a mg.

2.  The range worker will never learn anything new because he obviously already knows everything.

 

[Got Uzi]

In your case you are correct that you only need one stamp given what it is you have.....now that being said, if you had an HK sear and 2 hosts with you, then you better not have a stock on both as then you have an SBR on your hands.  Same can be said for an Uzi with a registered bolt....if the Uzi host has a folding stock on it, TECHNICALLY as soon as you take the bolt out it becomes an SBR, even though there is a registered bolt laying there for it.

The range where I am a trustee at is very NFA friendly, as long as you arent an idiot.  That being said-we have asked to see NFA paperwork on a regular basis as we have had issues with someone (not known in the clubs NFA community) show up with an illegal MG and thought he was king of the world....he was a "king" alright......so it is not required to show your NFA paperwork, but its also a good idea to comply as there are reasons for it.  Now to the point that someone didn't understand the regulations on it, and wanted to argue, you should go over their head to the top and explain the rules to said person.  

In the end-if you are using someone elses range/property to shoot, you get to play by their rules, if you don't like them, you are free to go somewhere else.

[Juggar]

Thanks for the responses guys, I dont have any issue showing the range my tax stamp and understand its a private facility and they can deny service to anyone. I get that they want to maintain a safe facility for law abiding folks. Just dont like being told the gun is illegal the first time I try and shoot the gun, even after I did everything correctly, legally speaking. He was the manager so id have to go to the owner , but I dont think its worth the argument or time. At the end of the day he let me shoot and we agree to disagree. I also understand about registered full auto bolts, but this isn't that of course. 

Oh well, now I get to figure out why I was getting some fail to feeds (bullet smashed back into brass) when firing full auto. I suspect it was the 200 grain reloads I was running, plus the bolt is all original, so i've bought a brand new CNC machined bolt with the updated extractor for MAC-10's. Hopefully that runs better as well. Somehow the keepshooting.com M3 grease gun mags dropped out of the gun while firing full auto, I do have the Lage grip with mag catch that allows both original/cut magazines and unmodified grease gun mags. Not sure how that happened, maybe my hand depressed the mag release, it has no front grip at the moment so its a handful. My fat ghost upper from Sam at Practical Works cant come in fast enough. Shooting full auto with no front grip is pretty unpleasant if im being honest. 

Edited March 8 by Juggar

[Labanaktis]

I ran a stock M11 with wire stock and the strap grip in front. Won a couple bowling pin shoots totally stock. That strap really helps and it’s really fun to shoot that way.