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5 hours ago, StrangeRanger said:Except for the fact that if you are an SOT then BATF already has you by the balls and failure to co-operate will only result in BATF twisting them
He said criminal investigator not an IOI.
No need to go at it solo. Always have an attorney present.
There is always an option to not say a word.
Police can lie to you and its legal.
An officer of the court not necessarily.
Any police contact me I invoke an attorney every time.
Search for a video called " don't talk to police " on your favorite search engine.
13 minutes ago, shiklg said:so many scams these days, can't be too careful.
some good advice I heard - if someone calls you and says they are law enforcement/government employee - ask for their name and badge/id number, agency, and phone number. then tell them you need to call them back in a few minutes. Then google their agency and call THAT (local office) number (not the one they gave you), and ask to speak to that person.
Sage advice.
On 10/11/2022 at 0:52 PM, elysianfields said:OP Update: Called into NFA branch and explained situation and requested expediting of forms since I am literally days from approval. They told me they couldn't do it and they wouldn't let me speak to a supervisor since they are eForms. They directed me to the "Ask the Experts" function on the eForms site.
I submitted a "Ask the Experts" question and await the reply. I am not very hopeful.
Might try the email below in addition. Call back again and ask to talk to a govt employee. It might be a contractor you spoke with.
Contact Information
General Questions, Directory Services, Status Inquiries - (304) 616-4500
Government and Law Enforcement Specific Questions - NFA@atf.gov(link sends e-mail)
Specific Form Processing Questions - IPB@atf.gov(link sends e-mail)
All Special Occupational Tax related questions - SOT@atf.gov(link sends e-mail)
Expedite Requests, VOIDS and Withdrawals, General Questions - NFAFAX@atf.gov
13 hours ago, elysianfields said:Thank you all. Sorry for the late reply, I wasn't subscribed to replies and I've dealing with Hurricane Ian.
I will need to call the NFA branch, I am at the 1 week mark from sending the 5320.20 via email and haven't received any confirmation of receipt or approval, etc. I will try my luck and request they expedite my current eForm 1 and 4 and make sure they received my 5320.20. I didn't think they extended the courtesy of expedited review to non-military folks, but I am within the approval window for both, so hopefully they go for it. I'll report back.
Just make sure you ask to talk to a supervisor. They might ask for proof. Job acceptance letter in the other state or email correspondence etc. They treat everyone the same be they military or civilian. They are not allowed to discriminate. Its a federal agency you are dealing with and all Americans are treated equally.
On 9/21/2022 at 1:56 PM, elysianfields said:Hi all, posing this question here since the only attorney I knew that was knowledgeable on NFA unfortunately passed.
I am moving out of state in November and have submitted a 5320.20 to the ATF for my NFA goodies. However, I currently have a pending eForm 4 (suppressor pending 3/7) and eForm 1 (SBR pending 8/12). I know that I am going to probably lose the progress on the suppressor with the eForm 4 and have to start over (such bullshit) but was wondering about the Form 1. I expect I will receive Form 1 approval right before my move and will be unable to get a 5320.20 submitted and approved on time for it. If that happens, am I in the clear to move without the 5320.20? I can hold off on the conversion of my rifle to SBR so I won't be moving an SBR across state lines without authorization. Would I be able to update the address after and then do the conversion?
No attorney is needed for this. You need to call the NFA branch and let them know of the pending move. Provide them with some sort of proof via email so they know its a legit request. They will expedite your pending applications and interstate transfer forms. Speaking from personal experience. They need a little lead time but not much. November is enough time. It all boiled down to communication with a branch chief. Good luck!
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Hello,
Looking for a rocket for an RPG 2 and RPG 7. Send me a note if you have an example for sale. Interested in metal rocket inert. No plastic or resins. PM me please.
Thank you.
11 minutes ago, Aren said:I have a couple new ones. Pm sent
Thank you just replied to your pm.
On 12/6/2021 at 11:03 AM, Swiss said:I have a set. Had them for years. Was going to build one, had a kit from OOW but found a Desert Ordnance gun and bought it.
pm me your email or text number and I'll send pics and price.
JL-Ohio
PM sent
Looking for a M60 channel. Let me know what you have and the price. Thanks!
1 hour ago, eMGunslinger said:I can always make more if you can’t find one, I’ve been hoarding all the parts for years.
Would be interested in one complete set. When you say make one are you meaning making from scratch or just new old stock parts you are throwing together? Would be nice if someone could manufacture these kits again.
28 minutes ago, Ryo said:Sounded like he did, I think he found a M16A1 since he is now asking question about determining what to look for with one on ARFCOM.
I suspect even if he didn't there would be some people willing to do the lock box idea..
Wouldn’t recommend anyone do a lock box. People have to figure things out on their own though.
1
1 hour ago, timelinex said:No worries. I'm not taking it personally! I really do appreciate the input. I would rather bicker back and forth with you guys and see if I'm missing something,, than do something that atf would frown on..
I dont deny what you are saying about possible civil liability. As you illuded to, you can be sued for anything these days!! Isn't this just the risk that is inherent in owning a MG in the first place though? If I take it from his home locked container, same civil liability for him. In both way I am the one that did something illegal to aquire the MG, but since his name is involved somewhere, the opponents lawyer will try to rope him in into the civil lawsuit. I do understand that what you are likely getting at is its probably easier for me to cut open a container at my home versus his. But on the other hand, we are pretty far into the "what if's". In my defense, none of these constructive posession NFA laws have ever been tested in court and no MG has been used in shootings for good reason....those that are willing to pay 30k to legally do something they can do with a cheap mod on a cheap ar15, aren't typically the same clientele as those that are doing the shootings.....but again, I do understand your point that is is a possibility.
If I were you I would reach out to an attorney who’s job it will be to reach out to the local atf field office and the US attorneys office in the jurisdiction this is occurring in and get assurances from those offices that what you are planning is ok and you will not face federal prosecution.
Had a couple of mg’s stored with a sot dealer about two decades ago, and the dealer became the target of a federal investigation. Long story short had to wait a couple of years to get the mg’s out of the atf field office where they were being stored as they were seized. Had to work with an atf special agent, and the nfa branch to coordinate retrieval. Not going to dive into specifics of this.
If the seller is moving soon you might be able to get your items faster if the seller contacts the nfa branch to let them know of the move while your forms are pending. The nfa branch will work with someone who is moving to another state with pending items in transfer status. You have to give them heads up though and some kind of proof of an impending move out of state.
3
Google has an intake form to report scams. Should consider using it.
https://support.google.com/mail/contact/abuse
8 minutes ago, timelinex said:Why would the seller care if I break it? I've already payed him the money for it. On the other hand, if I don't go the trust route, he literally coudl do exactly as you say, and use it while it's waiting for transfer and then I have little recourse but courts.
To be clear, the point isn't to shortcut the waiting process.
Your point about a contract is a good one, but I just don't think a contract where I have to go to court to enforce it, is as good as literally having it in my hands during the waiting period and KNOWING it's safe.
Contract protects both parties as expectations are in writing for the item while it’s in transfer status. It’s your first acquisition. You’re afraid which is normal. You could stipulate in the contract to strip all of the parts off the receiver so the seller is left with just that a bare receiver, and you take home the unregulated parts. You pick up after approval comes in. Becoming a co-trustee is not worth it.
Good luck either way.
8 minutes ago, timelinex said:I think we have completely different understanding of what is being discussed here. Trusts in this context are used for completely different purposes than "estate planning tools". I appreciate you taking the time to chime in and give your opinion.
Still open to hear other people's opinions on the trust matter.
Thanks
Depends on what your trying to achieve. Security that you will eventually get your item go with a contract that would be enforceable in the jurisdiction you live in. The trust route would work too and you would get the item in your hands sooner however what if you break it while it’s in transfer to you? Then what? That is why a seller might be hesitant to go that route. Too many variables that could go wrong. Be patient like everyone else buying nfa stuff. Good luck
10 minutes ago, timelinex said:Why would they care about adding me to their trust for an item that they were already paid for? Obviously this is assuming the trust only owns that one item.
From my understanding, this would be the safest and easiest way to do a private party transfer. They get their money, I am assured that I get my MG since now I am on the trust and can legally possess it while my form 4 clears. Otherwise It's a terrible situation where 1 of the 2 strangers has to trust the other person will not either disappear with their item or their money.
If my post wasting clear, I am talking about INTRA-state transfers where a dealer is not required to be involved.
Trusts are an estate planning tool. Highly unlikely they would agree to add you to their trust even if it’s the only item in the trust. They likely have the power to remove you from the trust with a quick amendment then you are forced to return trust property to the grantor/settlor. If you want piece of mind draft up a contract for the sale of the item and wait for the item to be approved. Pay with a method to track the money, ie check/money order/bank check etc. Any failure to deliver on the contract/sellers part is going to be a civil issue. Don’t expect the nfa to help you out there.
3 hours ago, timelinex said:This is regarding in-state transfers (Arizona).
I know that technically all you have to do to do for a private party transfer is a form 4. The issue is that you are stuck in a limbo state where for a year the seller has both the item and the money or the seller has to trust a stranger will pay him a year later when the item is officially not his anymore.
So then I have questions for 2 other possible situations:
1. I know that you can also do a double stamp transaction where the seller form 4's it to the dealer and the dealer form 4's it to you. In this situation, the SOT dealer can hold the item from day 1 correct? If so, this seems safer and worth $200 extra when dealing with a MG. However, I am guessing you can't have both forms concurrently processing, which means it will add ~100 days correct? Lastly, private party sales do not have sales tax here in AZ. But would I now have to pay sales tax on the purchase now that the dealer is the intermediary? Since at a certain point the item is in the dealers name and then it goes to mine, does that make it a retail purchase? I know in regular between state transfers, I would not since the dealer is just considered to be transfering the item. But here it seems messier since at a certain point it's in their name.
2. If the seller of the item has the item in a trust, can he just add me as a co-trustee. That way I am allowed to hold onto the item while my form 4 processes. I know adding someone as a trustee instead of doing a form 4 transfer is a gray area in the NFA community because it can be seen as tax evasion. But I don't think this would apply as tax evasion since we would not be removing the original owner, so it's not "transferring" anything. More importantly, I will also simultaneously be filing the form 4 and paying the tax immediately. This doesn't seem to be tax evasion any more than having a beneficiary or adding a trustee at a later time to your trust so they can use the weapon (Which is legal).
Let me know.
Thanks
How else would it go from the seller to the dealer if the seller is not licensed? Yes, two stamp transaction. Is the dealer paying for it or are you? The sot dealer is there to assist you in the transaction because you are not licensed. That’s it, and to make sure you are suitable to have the item after the tax return is completed by the nfa branch and they do their thing with fbi background check etc.
Why would the seller agree to adding you to their trust? Is it a relative selling to you? You’re still going to need an sot to facilitate the interstate movement of the item in question regardless to have it transferred to you.
13 hours ago, goosehunter said:
Again, this is the reason for posing the question. Our constitutional rights are up to an opinion of a small court. As the two articles above illustrate, which way is the wind blowing today?
Do not believe Americans Constitutional rights are up to the opinion of a small court.
Read these: https://reason.com/volokh/2020/04/08/the-federal-governments-police-power-and-the-takings-clause-part-iii/ and https://reason.com/volokh/2020/04/09/the-federal-governments-police-power-and-the-takings-clause-part-iv/
Buy whatever you want.
On 5/9/2021 at 9:30 PM, Kevin Bartlett said:Don't spend a dime on NFA or anything else unless you are willing to lose that money. I just went under contract yesterday on another piece of overpriced acreage just to have it. I may never see a dime of profit from it. Or maybe my land will be seized and redistributed to those who presumably deserve it more than I. Or maybe that Chinese rocket booster will fall on my head and kill me. Has that thing crashed yet anyway? Think about it but not so much that your head explodes. As said above, it's all speculation.
Good luck,
Kevin in NC
Don’t live in fear Kevin. Buy what you want guns, land, etc.
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On 5/9/2021 at 8:20 PM, goosehunter said:Did a search on this and did not find any results. Sorry if it has been covered, please point me to the discussion.
With the current administrations view on firearms, is the NFA community concerned about their investments? The administration has openly stated an expansion of the NFA to include semi-auto and mags 11+. Has anyone heard about a restriction to currently licensed firearms?
Looking to invest in more NFA firearms for enjoyment, but it would really hurt to have a confiscation of a multi-thousand dollar item.
Thank you for any input.
BG
Read up on the 5th amendment to the US Constitution and the takings clause. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/takings
Buy whatever you want. Don’t be afraid of confiscation. The constitution protects Americans from governments actions to take personal property.
Please send me a PM or reply to this thread.
You must read/scan the 68 pages and determine if any of the provisions of FL statutes will prohibit the transfree from possessing the item in question. If yes, that would cause a denial of the prospective application.
This is link goes straight to the FL statutes.
https://www.atf.gov/file/117191/download
If you need individualized help this individual can further assist you. He is out of Jacksonville, FL.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/
It depends. What state is this occurring in? State laws have to be followed in addition to the federal ones for legal firearms transfers.
This link below will give you the tool to answer your question.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/state-laws-and-published-ordinances-firearms-34th-edition
Fraud or legit?
in General Firearms Discussion
Posted
Scam. Report it to google so the scammer gets their account suspended or put under review.