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34 minutes ago, genbander said:Thank you all for you replies, I think they are getting rid of FFL's who don't generate a lot of revenue. We have slid under the $50K mark the last few years, with most of the revenue coming in the form of cans. I will only sell them to an SOT, I don't want to get anyone in trouble for possession, or worse actually convert a rifle illegally.
Anybody on this board interested?
There's got to be way more to your story, compliance issues during inspection, previous warnings, etc. The ATF doesn't give two f#$%s how much revenue you bring in, they also don't pull your license after the first paperwork ding, FFLs are given plenty of opportunities to correct their policies and behavior before revocation. The license is shall issue license, unless they have a valid reason to deny, they must approve/renew the license.
ETA: the small parts are just that, parts, not regulated nor serialized. Sell to whomever you like.
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OP: The question is, have you found a seller who will accede to your requests?
2 hours ago, cieneguita said:You do not own until the BATFE says you can for each and every item. I guess if you took all the parts home and were denied you had better be prepared to return all pieces in original condition and offer full refund.
One quibble with this, neither the ATF, NFA law nor the transfer paperwork/process confers ownership. All it does is permit the transfer of possession. Agreements to exchange one item for something else of value (whether that's money or other items in trade) confers ownership. Once and agreement is made and the item is paid for, it's owned by the buyer, if the transfer application isn't approved it's still owned by the buyer however he may not take possession of it.
A sales contract for an NFA item should have a clause defining what would happen in the case of a denied transfer. In an in-state sale, usually there will be a percent of the payment that will be kept by the seller as recompense for his not having the ability to sell to a qualified buyer and/or the use of the item during that failed transfer wait. But some sellers will take an ALL SALES FINAL approach and if the transfer is denied, the buyer will then need to find a new buyer for the item or work with the seller to find one and may or may not lose some of his investment on resale. If the item in question has transferred to an intermediate FFL/SOT in the buyer's state and the buyer's F4 is denied, that is an even more likely outcome, as the seller is out of the picture by that point and the receiving FFL (now in possession of the NFA item) will likely help the failed buyer find a new buyer (for a fee of course).
13 hours ago, Ryo said:The ATF strongly recommends a Form 5 so it doesn't look like a transfer.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/repair-nfa-firearms
I've seen them sent over without it though to another FFL I know for repairs.
They do not want a Form 5 for repair, it's not legally required and just adds time and paperwork for the already overwhelmed transfer system.
To the OP, if you're taking NFA items in for repair, just get a letter from the Dept (or individual) specifically noting what is to be done and log it in your gunsmithing book. Some gunsmiths require the individual to send in a copy of their F4, etc (in this case F10) but it's not required though it can be a good practice.
On 6/1/2021 at 4:28 PM, Schmeisser Guy said:Since you seem very nervous about buying an NFA item, I would suggest buying from a dealer. You will pay more but it will give you peace of mind. If buying from an individual then have them transfer to a dealer you trust. This could add a few months to your transfer.
Currently waiting on 3 separate individual to dealer transfers right now that were RECEIVED by the ATF at the beginning of Feb and showed up as ENTERED in my eForms acct at the end of April, still not approved... it's not going to be a lot less time to transfer it to a dealer intermediary right now and will likely tack on a lot of extra time waiting for the 2nd transfer to you.
To the OP, the other issue you'll have is that as the buyer you have no control over the process other than deciding whether or not to give the seller your money. You can propose all sorts of creative transfer ideas but it's highly unlikely the seller will agree. It's a seller's market, you need to decide if you have the cojones to play in it or not.
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4 hours ago, Bwanalewis said:I have the opportunity to purchase an Inland M2. My dealer will be receiving the gun soon. Is it true that Inland was the only manufacturer of "Factory M2s" I have done a lot of research, but struggling to find that specific information. If so, does that make them more valuable? How well are they made? The one thing I did find is that the Inland guns seem to come at the end of WWII, so mainly used in Korea and Vietnam. Is there data on shipment of these guns?
Thanks,
Chad
Don't do it, not a fun gun IMO. I had a PS, sold it quick, it would be the last MG I'd buy again if I had too much money sitting around begging me to spend it.
42 minutes ago, Ryo said:So I feel justified putting money in last year for more MG.
I'm still surprised Reising 50's are so cheap. They are not a bad SMG in my opinion.
Heavy, ergonomically uncomfortable, 12/20 round mags are expensive, 30 round mags are unreliable, parts break/replacements not readily available cheap, poor historical reputation. That said, they are considered the MN machine gun due to the C&R status.
No he's asking about a F4 FROM an individual TO a licensee. Whether the licensee is a corp, partnership or sole prop doesn't matter, fill out page 1 and send in 2 copies.
A C&R Sten is going to cost you around the same as a Sterling tube gun would. Unless you need to have an original gun just go with a tube Sten from a well known builder to shoot.
I had Troy at BarrelXchange make me a .40S&W conversion for my Uzi, that's all the full auto .40 I need. ;)
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3 hours ago, taylorwso said:BTW if you form 4'd something to me and then did not deliver, I would call the ATF on your ass because I would have something in my inventory not in my possession. I don't know if most delaers check their inventory online but I do it every week to see which cans have been approved.
The ATF would tell you they don't care, the form 4 is an approved transfer not a record of transfer nor a certificate of ownership, the current possessor can cancel and refund the approved Form 4 within 3 years of the tax being paid as long as the transfer has never taken place. https://regulations.atf.gov/479-172/03-1657
15 hours ago, Ryo said:Oh about the holding of the item. Likely no dealer would agree to that since the part is suppose to be in their possession.. Though the time to perform a transfer to another person or dealer seems vague. I'm not sure if I've seen any writing that the item must go to that person's inventory. One issue I can see is if the dealer disputed that they are the owner and you had it over a long period of time.. That could get you into possible trouble, but I'm just speculating.
The other thing people get confused about is that an approved form does not convey ownership, it only approves the transfer from one entity to another. I've had a guy take about 6 months to come pick up a suppressor after I received the approved F4, he just didn't come in, would call him every couple weeks, he was busy, out of town, etc, until he finally got around to coming in. A similar issue could delay a transfer in the reverse instance as well and both transfer delays are perfectly legal, but as I said good luck finding a SOT who will agree to the scheme in advance.
No dog in the fight but I'm just boggled you accepted PayPal for a MG ...
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You, as a non-licensee, would file a tax paid Form 4 not Form 3 to transfer it to your local or out of state dealer, the tax free Form 3 is only SOT to SOT. You could conceivably hold the item indefinitely after the Form 4 has been approved though most dealers wouldn't agree to that since once the Form 4 is approved to them the item now shows up on their NFA inventory with the ATF so if they get inspected they would need to explain that the item hasn't transferred to them yet for whatever reason. It's not illegal to delay the transfer but like I said most dealers probably wouldn't agree to do it.
It's not an upcharge, $1000/yr is the standard fee for an importer or manufacturer. They don't know what your total gross receipts were last year so you have to proactively apply for the reduced rate based on total gross receipts of less than $500,000, note that this includes ALL of your entity's business receipts not just NFA items and it's gross not net.
The 45 FA kit uses the stock SMG Uzi and only changes out the barrel and bolt (and obviously the mags). The factory mags are single stack, 16 or 10 round, there are also 10 or 22 round Pro-mags in current production (I'm not a fan) and I have a 50 round suomi style drum from Troy at BarrelXchange which he no longer makes. I also have a Chris Humphries GG lower that works great, this is a better solution to increase the round count in 45 to try to make yourself with a surplus Uzi lower and Mac 10 grip than trying to modify 9mm mags.
Gatewood supply occasionally has used ones in stock, looks like they may only have #8s right now but check with them. Put up a WTB on HKPro, I sold my last German #7 on there a few months ago to a guy with a WTB ad.
If it was submitted after that date, you'll likely be rejected (and it's not a correctible error either) unless you get really lucky and the examiner doesn't notice.
5 hours ago, taylorwso said:You should have talked to him and get the price for transfer, as now you have to pay what he wants, Unless you want to wait another 6 months.
I had a Dbag dealer offer to transfer a can for me about 17 YAG. I was new to the area but not new to NFA. I didn't ask about the fee. He charged 100 which floored me, at the time the most outrages transfer I had heard was 50.
He'd still likely have to pay the transfer fee, I wouldn't transfer it out to another dealer without getting something for my trouble plus the shipping cost to the next dealer. Live and learn, ask prices of services before contracting for those services.
2 hours ago, kevin koch said:Question - how does the in-state dealer who holds an NFA firearm until the buyer is approved get compensated? I am waiting to be approved by ATF for a SBM purchase. I paid the out-of-state seller who transferred the firearm to a near-by SOL dealer, who I understand owns the firearm, per ATF, until the transfer is approved. How does the SOL dealer get compensated, if at all, if and when the transfer is approved? Is there a transfer fee, do I tip him? This is my first purchase with several months to go, I appreciate anyone's help, thanks.
Your dealer doesn't own the firearm as ownership is not conferred by ATF transfer paperwork. The form you submit to the ATF is only a request for permission to transfer an NFA item to another entity. Federal law requires interstate transfers to terminate with a licensee, so that's why there's an interim step of the initial transfer request to your local dealer who takes possession of the firearm after that transfer is approved to him. When he receives your firearm, you then submit a new transfer request from him to you, during this whole process YOU are the owner of the firearm that you paid the original owner for.
Regarding your in-state dealer's compensation, that's something you should have discussed prior to sending him any firearm for transfer, regardless of whether it's a title 1 or title 2 gun, as most dealers have higher transfer fees for NFA firearms since we're storing them for longer periods of time with greater possibilities of headaches with paperwork.
Had a couple come in last week right at 10 weeks, and have 3 others sent before those that are still out over 3 months. Sometimes I think they just randomly pull shit from the stack to mess with everyone.
I thought Iowa legalized everything back in 2017?
I prefer an I'll take it posted to the thread so there's no misunderstandings for that very reason but on this site a lot of buyers seem to want to remain anonymous and do everything via PM so I've sold both ways.
But then there's the buyers who think "PM sent" means they have some sort of dibs to scare off any other interested parties even while they're trying to negotiate the sh#$ out of the asking price... 
21 minutes ago, JJ1234567 said:Apologies - In this instance I was thinking about transporting for to a smith for repair or something similar. I.E. My MP5 needs refinishing. The shop doing the work is across state lines, and Id rather just drive it to them than deal with shipping.
Personal delivery, if you are not a licensee then yes technically you would need a 5320.20 as you are carrying it to another state and are not defined as a common carrier. Shipping, no as the common carrier is exempt and the receiving FFL doesn't require transfer paperwork for gunsmithing.
Losing FFL/SOT and selling NFA parts
in NFA / Semi Forum
Posted
Guy sounds like he's either got something to hide or is a scammer to me, pending further information I wouldn't do business with him.