What the heck are these frt's?

[Dean]

I started seeing them on YouTube recently.  Do they really work like full auto?  Is this going to have impact on my transferable?

Please explain.

 

Thanks

[Born loser...in Montana]

https://www.uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/super-safety-review.100617/

[Dean]

Thanks not sure whether I hope they outlaw them or allow them.  6x transferables is eagerly awaiting.

[SGT Fish]

4 hours ago, Dean said:

Thanks not sure whether I hope they outlaw them or allow them.  6x transferables is eagerly awaiting.

Why would you hope they outlaw them?

[Chef]

5 hours ago, SGT Fish said:

Why would you hope they outlaw them?

So his transferables don't take a financial hit.

[SGT Fish]

3 hours ago, Chef said:

So his transferables don't take a financial hit.

Yeahi figured, i was just hoping he would out himself as a DB. 

If you worry about your machineguns losing value if more become available. You probably shouldn't be buying machineguns

[Dean]

I bought my MG's many years ago so its not a financial hit.  Plus I found out yesterday that my local range banned full auto/FRT's because inexperienced individuals with FRT's were hitting the ceiling.

[SVA]

On 7/26/2026 at 9:00 AM, Dean said:

I started seeing them on YouTube recently.  Do they really work like full auto?  Is this going to have impact on my transferable?

Please explain.

 

Thanks

I have a long time friend who played with an FRT, he is a long time machine gun owner (since 1986) and he said he could not tell a difference between it and his M16. So he sold his transferable M16 (under current market pricing) and spent 2k of it and got an AR15 with FRT and is very happy with it. He's gonna start phasing out his collection while the market value is holding. Either way on the future of the frt's, he was planning on cashing in on his collection anyway under the current market pricing over time

[Dean]

That makes sense unless they do what they did with bump stocks.  I was going to order one today but they are a gray area in Florida.  Looks like 15 states have banned them so far.

Edited July 27 by Dean

[Born loser...in Montana]

Getm while you can!

Something this fun and cheap...

( compared to the ridiculous cost ,caused by unconstitutional government regulations of NFA weapons.)

These are the good ol days...

Live Free or Die.

Edited July 28 by Born loser...in Montana
Clarification

[MPFiveO]

I have a few FRT's. They are fun to play with and do an excellent job of mimicking full auto. Just about everyone I know has one or two.

Despite how cheap they are and how well they work I'm not planning on selling any of my transferable machine guns yet. Still having lots of fun with them and who knows what the future looks like for FRT's. Machine Gun prices are not going to plummet because of FRT's.

[Dean]

Correct and my son is looking forward to inheriting dad's MG's

[huggytree]

I compared a srt ar15 to a m16.  Exactly the same except the srt speeds up as the gun heats up.  
I’ve noticed m16 and hk sears dropping in price.  I sold my m16a2 as I saw this one coming.  IMO you’re definitely reducing demand.  Why pay $50,000 for a mp5 or $40,000 for a m16.   Whey you can pay $1200-1500 . Get the exact same thing. No stamp.  No fingerprints. No nfa 

I haven’t sold any more of my nfa guns yet.  But the market overall is dropping still.  
1 mass shooting with a frt and I’ll guess laws might change.  It’s coming 

 

[Uncle Zeek]

1 hour ago, huggytree said:

1 mass shooting with a frt and I’ll guess laws might change.  It’s coming

I'm convinced that Congress will, at some point, revise one or more code sections so that FRT/super safety and similar devices will fall under the definition of a machinegun.  A mass shooting would just make it happen faster.

[Chef]

8 hours ago, huggytree said:

I compared a srt ar15 to a m16.  Exactly the same except the srt speeds up as the gun heats up.  
I’ve noticed m16 and hk sears dropping in price.  I sold my m16a2 as I saw this one coming.  IMO you’re definitely reducing demand.  Why pay $50,000 for a mp5 or $40,000 for a m16.   Whey you can pay $1200-1500 . Get the exact same thing. No stamp.  No fingerprints. No nfa 

I haven’t sold any more of my nfa guns yet.  But the market overall is dropping still.  
1 mass shooting with a frt and I’ll guess laws might change.  It’s coming 

 

It's not the "exact same thing".
FRT is a gimmick. And you "feel" the trigger pressing back every time the bolt cycles. FRTs are great for young, no money shooters looking for the "FA experience" while turning money into smoke at the range, but there will always be a demand for the "real thing".
To put it another way, FRTs are like kit cars. You can pretend you're driving a Shelby Cobra, or a Ferrari when you own one. They are a fraction of price of a real one and to most people, you will look just as cool as you drive by. But you're still only really driving an old fox body mustang or a fiero underneath the body kit.
Or wearing a fake Rolex watch. It still tells the time, but it's not the same thing.
With any replica, regardless of if it's apparel, cars or guns, there's no way you'll ever convince yourself that a fake is "just as good" as the real thing.

[Got Uzi]

I see the whole FRT/SS thing coming to an end on the state levels as there is a growing list of them as we speak. 

 

That being said, my concern is that if or when a ban happens (and it will) that they (Gov't) will roll conversion devices such as M16 DIAS, HK sear, Uzi bolts and so on, into the same grouping as FRT's on state levels and consider them to be "conversion devices".  It all comes down to how a bill would be worded such as "any device placed into a semi automatic firearm that changes its rate of fire" would defiantly be a major problem.....don't think it'll happen?   It sure could.

The other concern I have is that they (Gov't) could just impose a ban on any and all firearms that have had an FRT/SS unit made for it....then we are really screwed.  Look at states already going after Glock pistols due to "dem switchz" instead of going after the real problem.  The entire FRT/SS thing is playing with fire that can and will blow up in all of our faces.  

 

I can also tell you that I personally have three FRT units-two for AR15's and one for an MP5 and they function the exact same as a regular MG based on the ROF.  I can shoot them and get the exact same results and control as if shooting my actual MG's......and that is scary to say the least.  You can make the argument that by the "legal definition" they are not MG's, but that could change overnight......elections have consequences. 

[Thumpy]

Future is now old man lol, the younger generation who you where intending to sell too is not interested in buying any more. FRT’s are out for ar15’s, ak’s, mp5’s, m10s, m11’s, 1911’s, thompson’s, one for the RPD is in the works, 3 people making one for the 249’s one in the works for the 240, pkm, m60 and many many more!!…. Out side of the very rare high end collectibles I think the market on transferable’s will drop considerably.. personally I’ve sold all my transferable’s besides my uzi. I don’t know a single guy my age or young who’s bought a transferable in about 2 years because of FRT’s coming out. Before then I’d see a few guys a year in their early 20’s grabbing a m10 or a uzi or a m16 now literally zero. A friend of a friend owns a frt company and they are selling 300 a week… there’s probably about 100 companies just like his doing similar numbers. I believe the cats out of the bag a the in common use argument is definitely going to be used. By the time the government comes after it again it will end up like the brace amnesty and reversal… and the bumpstock ban then un ban… not saying to not buy transferable’s but I’d definitely stop looking at them like investments. They are just expensive toys that most likely are going to counting dropping in value. Just the opinion of me and every dude younger then me it seems.

[huggytree]

14 hours ago, Chef said:

It's not the "exact same thing".
FRT is a gimmick. And you "feel" the trigger pressing back every time the bolt cycles. FRTs are great for young, no money shooters looking for the "FA experience" while turning money into smoke at the range, but there will always be a demand for the "real thing".
To put it another way, FRTs are like kit cars. You can pretend you're driving a Shelby Cobra, or a Ferrari when you own one. They are a fraction of price of a real one and to most people, you will look just as cool as you drive by. But you're still only really driving an old fox body mustang or a fiero underneath the body kit.
Or wearing a fake Rolex watch. It still tells the time, but it's not the same thing.
With any replica, regardless of if it's apparel, cars or guns, there's no way you'll ever convince yourself that a fake is "just as good" as the real thing.

I feel nothing different on my trigger finger with my frt AR.   I shot 2 mags each out of the ar and the m16.  I know it’s moving my trigger finger. But you can’t feel it.   I doubted it would be as good too.  But it’s exact 

 

other than it speeding up when you do a mag dump

 

[Got Uzi]

The ones for the MP5 shoot EXACTLY the same ROF as my full auto packs as I shot them side by side at the same time. 
 

The one I have in a 9mm AR15 “non-16” shoots the exact same ROF also as my factory Colt 9mm SMG using the same buffer, spring, and upper setup. 

[MontanaRenegade86]

Hmmmm.....I wonder how long this FRT thread will remain open. 

 

[CobrayCollector87]

double tap 

Edited July 29 by CobrayCollector87
Double post

[CobrayCollector87]

20 hours ago, Chef said:

It's not the "exact same thing".
FRT is a gimmick. And you "feel" the trigger pressing back every time the bolt cycles. FRTs are great for young, no money shooters looking for the "FA experience" while turning money into smoke at the range, but there will always be a demand for the "real thing".
To put it another way, FRTs are like kit cars. You can pretend you're driving a Shelby Cobra, or a Ferrari when you own one. They are a fraction of price of a real one and to most people, you will look just as cool as you drive by. But you're still only really driving an old fox body mustang or a fiero underneath the body kit.
Or wearing a fake Rolex watch. It still tells the time, but it's not the same thing.
With any replica, regardless of if it's apparel, cars or guns, there's no way you'll ever convince yourself that a fake is "just as good" as the real thing.

I hear a lot of older guys who have a nest egg of transferable machine guns saying this crap on all the forums.. but it’s total BS.. they are absolutely “just as good”, it’s nothing like a fake Rolex.   A fully automatic AR-15 is a fully automatic AR-15 regardless of how it achieves that rate of fire.   If it reliably shoots 800 rounds per minute when you hold the trigger down, then its hardly the equivalent of putting a plastic body kit on a crappy car to make it look nicer without the same performance..  what you describe is basically a semi auto AR vs a full auto AR…has the look but doesn’t do the same thing..  that is not the case here.. these perform the same way as the gun they are “mimicking”.   
 

in fact the FRTs are actually more desirable than transferables for a number of reasons, for one… because most younger guys don’t want to have to buy some old school dinosaur machine gun from before 1986 and then try to slap a bunch of aftermarket crap on it to try to make it modern.. the MACs with LAGE uppers are a great example.  I can’t imagine anyone is gonna want to put that ugly goofy looking crap on a pre-86 MAC receiver anymore when they can just buy the modern full auto MP5 or AR15 they really want for a fraction of the cost.   Then of course the fact that no paperwork or registration is required, which is the best part IMO.  
 

FRTs will (and already are) destroying the transferable machine gun market.   I for one am fine with this, as i don’t agree with the registration requirements of the NFA or the government oversight involved in owning a full auto weapon and think anyone should be able to have one, without any paperwork or ATF involvement in their lives… and that is the case now.  Sadly people are being a bit too brazen with them, I haven’t seen a video of a semi auto firearm on social media that’s actually still semi auto in months.  We will see how it plays out with the law… my fear is an outright ban on semi auto firearms when we get a Democrat back in the White House.  

 

[Chef]

Where is this "destroyed transferable machinegun market" you speak of? I haven't seen it.
When you come across those old dinosaur transferable M16s for $10k, send them my way.

People are still paying more for a flipped factory HK MP5 than a sear or a push pin converted HK94, even they all spit lead downrange at the same ROF.
Why?? Because ROF and turning money into smoke isn't everything when it comes to MG ownership.

And if you want a better comparison, why do people pay double for a true SS Camero than they do for a "tribute" car that is an exact replica of the real deal except for the numbers stamped in the vin plate?
As well, I'm sure you've heard that the CMP is going to be selling REAL M14s with the selector attachment nub milled off, right? And people are chomping at the bit to buy one at 4 times the price of a Springfield Armory M1A, which is exactly the same rifle, minus 60 years and a few thousand rounds. Maybe you should post in that topic that they could buy four brand new M1A rifles for the price of one used M14, because I don't think they got the memo.

But at the end of the day, you can wear your fake Rolex all you want, and drive your tribute car till the wheels fall off, but at the end of the day, the only people you're impressing is kids who don't know better.
There's no pride of ownership or accomplishment in owning a fake. And any chump from the hood can stuff an FRT in his PSA AR. But it's never going to be a real M16.

[CobrayCollector87]

5 hours ago, Chef said:

Where is this "destroyed transferable machinegun market" you speak of? I haven't seen it.
When you come across those old dinosaur transferable M16s for $10k, send them my way.

People are still paying more for a flipped factory HK MP5 than a sear or a push pin converted HK94, even they all spit lead downrange at the same ROF.
Why?? Because ROF and turning money into smoke isn't everything when it comes to MG ownership.

And if you want a better comparison, why do people pay double for a true SS Camero than they do for a "tribute" car that is an exact replica of the real deal except for the numbers stamped in the vin plate?
As well, I'm sure you've heard that the CMP is going to be selling REAL M14s with the selector attachment nub milled off, right? And people are chomping at the bit to buy one at 4 times the price of a Springfield Armory M1A, which is exactly the same rifle, minus 60 years and a few thousand rounds. Maybe you should post in that topic that they could buy four brand new M1A rifles for the price of one used M14, because I don't think they got the memo.

But at the end of the day, you can wear your fake Rolex all you want, and drive your tribute car till the wheels fall off, but at the end of the day, the only people you're impressing is kids who don't know better.
There's no pride of ownership or accomplishment in owning a fake. And any chump from the hood can stuff an FRT in his PSA AR. But it's never going to be a real M16.

The destroyed market that I speak of is the one that everybody else in this thread is talking about.. where the younger generation now has absolutely no interest at all in transferable machine guns whatsoever anymore and pretty soon all of the boomers will be dead, and eventually there will be nobody buying up their expensive transferable guns..  obviously it’s not happening overnight and there’s no $10,000 transferable M-16s (yet…) but give it a few years and let’s see what happens… 

Collectors are always gonna want collectible guns..  that won’t change.   A colt collector will want an early all original M16a1, an M14 collector will want one of those genuine M14s from the CMP, but the majority of shooters are not collectors, especially the younger generations.. (which is the next generation of consumers, and the ones who matter the most).. they just want something that shoots full auto, they don’t care how it does it, and they don’t wanna have to pay an arm and a leg for it, and they would rather have the latest greatest “tacticool” model than a pre-86 old school machine gun receiver that they don’t even care for and they have to try desperately to modernize it with cerakote and modern accessories ..

I collect vintage retro 1970s and 80s guns and I am a “younger” guy and I am in a huge minority amongst my generation. I see it all the time, there is absolutely no appreciation whatsoever for the classics in most of the Facebook NFA gun groups that I frequent amongst my generation and younger (millennials, Gen Z etc)…  I am 39 years old and I can tell you that my generation for the most part does not give a flying fuck at all about historical value or Collectibles…there may be a few guys here and there that are like me and prefer the retro guns that aren’t covered in rail mounted plastic battery powered bullshit, but they are few and far between.. the vast majority just want the modern guns they see in video games. 

when most of these guy buy a transferable vintage gun that has any rare collectors value, they strip all of the original parts off of it and sell them to their SOT for next to nothing before they even get it out of ATF jail…. Refinish it with HK black cerakote ASAP, and pictogram selector markings (ugh), and try to make it as modern as possible,

I see it happening with powder Springs M10s constantly, being refinished black, upgraded with LAGE receivers etc, registered M16A1 lowers getting the same treatment, stylish new FDE or bronze or whatever cerakote finish over the mint original XM gray anodizing , the most modern uppers covered in MLOK stuff etc etc..

The majority of these guys don’t really want those old pre-86 guns or appreciate them, they are settling for those guns to get the registered receivers because they were the only legal option for full auto.. now the majority of the younger guys are not even bothering to buy those old transferable guns, because now they can just buy the modern platform they actually  want and have full auto for a fraction of the price, and not have to worry about registering it with the federal government either.    

[M38A1-Josh]

I agree with some of your points. Mainly about trends in gun owners from say age 21-40. Less collecting, more shooting. Fewer guns, more modern guns.

But one thing to consider is that MG collectors have always been a very small group in the much larger general gun owning community. Sure we have more people who own other NFA items these days (suppressors and SBRs) but MG ownership has always been and always will be limited to a smaller number of people due to various personal choices. That is, until we can Form 1 a transferable MG again or the rules change entirely.

I would not underestimate the ability of a small group of people to keep spending serious money on transferables. A meaningful and sustained price correction could take many years to appear, if it happens at all.

Combined with an overall dip in spending due to big economic issues, there does seem to be less demand right now for certain MGs. Machinegun price guide shows a slight dip or flat line in pricing for larger, heaver, more complex, less desirable guns. Not a big surprise, and easily explained. But is it temporary? We don't know. This is like trying to forecast the stock market. I believe it will go up long term, but tomorrow it could be up or down. Who knows!

I consider myself to be one of the few people who was considering buying their first MG, then decided not to because of the direction FRTs have taken.

Legal issues related to FRTs could change that, moving me back into the market for an MG.

If I found a local deal on an MG I wanted, I would still jump on that, and I think odds are I won't lose money in the long term. Not that I really care about that. I buy a gun to shoot it, not profit from owning it.

I have zero interest in anything HK or M16 based at this time due to FRTs. I would only buy something along the lines of a Browning or say an MP40. Although I suspect if I bought one, shortly after an FRT would be released for that gun, in a cruel twist of fate.

[Chef]

16 hours ago, CobrayCollector87 said:

The destroyed market that I speak of is the one that everybody else in this thread is talking about.. where the younger generation now has absolutely no interest at all in transferable machine guns whatsoever anymore and pretty soon all of the boomers will be dead, and eventually there will be nobody buying up their expensive transferable guns..  obviously it’s not happening overnight and there’s no $10,000 transferable M-16s (yet…) but give it a few years and let’s see what happens… 

Collectors are always gonna want collectible guns..  that won’t change.   A colt collector will want an early all original M16a1, an M14 collector will want one of those genuine M14s from the CMP, but the majority of shooters are not collectors, especially the younger generations.. (which is the next generation of consumers, and the ones who matter the most).. they just want something that shoots full auto, they don’t care how it does it, and they don’t wanna have to pay an arm and a leg for it, and they would rather have the latest greatest “tacticool” model than a pre-86 old school machine gun receiver that they don’t even care for and they have to try desperately to modernize it with cerakote and modern accessories ..

I collect vintage retro 1970s and 80s guns and I am a “younger” guy and I am in a huge minority amongst my generation. I see it all the time, there is absolutely no appreciation whatsoever for the classics in most of the Facebook NFA gun groups that I frequent amongst my generation and younger (millennials, Gen Z etc)…  I am 39 years old and I can tell you that my generation for the most part does not give a flying fuck at all about historical value or Collectibles…there may be a few guys here and there that are like me and prefer the retro guns that aren’t covered in rail mounted plastic battery powered bullshit, but they are few and far between.. the vast majority just want the modern guns they see in video games. 

when most of these guy buy a transferable vintage gun that has any rare collectors value, they strip all of the original parts off of it and sell them to their SOT for next to nothing before they even get it out of ATF jail…. Refinish it with HK black cerakote ASAP, and pictogram selector markings (ugh), and try to make it as modern as possible,

I see it happening with powder Springs M10s constantly, being refinished black, upgraded with LAGE receivers etc, registered M16A1 lowers getting the same treatment, stylish new FDE or bronze or whatever cerakote finish over the mint original XM gray anodizing , the most modern uppers covered in MLOK stuff etc etc..

The majority of these guys don’t really want those old pre-86 guns or appreciate them, they are settling for those guns to get the registered receivers because they were the only legal option for full auto.. now the majority of the younger guys are not even bothering to buy those old transferable guns, because now they can just buy the modern platform they actually  want and have full auto for a fraction of the price, and not have to worry about registering it with the federal government either.    

You are 100% right about everything you wrote.
Unfortunately.

[johnsonlmg41]

Chef,  screw you, I'm first in line for the transferables at 10K.  I'll even go to 20K for an FG42, but is has to have a period scope and mount!  

The problem with young collectors is that there generally aren't any in this discussion, because they don't have the money since life things take precedence.  For the most part they are shooters with FRT's, but the time may come when they grow up, maybe inherit boomer money, and buy and enjoy the finer things in life?   Probably not for most of them.   Some might even study history?  A tesla plaid will beat most Ferrari's, but not everything is about pure speed.  Craftsmanship comes at a cost and period in time like an old 100K Winchester.  A Singer is just another off brand 1911, right?  If you younger guys could put a FRT in a Singer, would you do it?

Ironically, most young people think short term,  older people think long term...yet have only have a short term left?   

 

[Jonnyjon88]

I guess you can call me rare then... im 38 and mostly only interested in rare and collectible firearms. I have one transferable (M1 Thompson) and a FRT in an H&R M-16a1, among other semi autos.. mainly interested in collecting ww2/vietnam weapons. And then the other 40 something are for hunting. I dont really care what other people like..frts..transferables..im not going to dog them for it.. i believe as gun owners we should all get along and disagreeing with each other, name calling (i.e. fudds) is just playing into their narrative. Because if they can break us up into factions it will be much easier to complete the ultimate goal of total disarmament

[MPFiveO]

Everyone has their own viewpoint of life. It's not that anyone is wrong or right about the market. We all just have different perspectives. I personally know two guys under 30 that have recently purchased transferable machine guns. One bought a push pin MP5 conversion and the other bought a Colt M16. Neither gun was cheap but they had the extra funds and invested in them without hesitation. I know another guy who is 21 and has a pretty good income and he's searching for a MP44.

So, there are young people buying high end transferable machine guns. It's an investment they can enjoy, much more than stocks or bonds.

I'm retired now and while my current salary doesn't quite support my desire to own more high end machine guns I've got long term investments that I have tapped into to make it work. I'm pretty satisfied with the collection I have and none of my friends have grown tired of shooting any of them either.

[huggytree]

Most nfa people own 2-5+ guns.  To keep the market going you only need 50,000 who want them 

with video games making these guns cool I doubt you see a market crash

market is down. But guns in general are rock bottom right now. Nfa graph is never a straight line. It’s a seesaw 

i do think the highest priced guns will be effected.  M16/mp5.  They may not be double price other nfa guns anymore .  
 

more and more states will ban frt 

 

 

[gamebit21]

     The FRT Triggers have a “settlements.” Federally. It is setting legal “precedence.” It is not however congressional “laws” that have been interacted. Nor is it Supreme Court Rulings.” 
     Do not get me wrong. It is still good directions and wins for the 2A movements!! The real big battles are I’ll be at the state levels. For example in the upcoming supreme cKurt session, the Virgina Assult Weapon Ban Court Block getting turned down will have a ripple affects. Many states are watching, so they can see what they can get away with….

       Let’s also de honest with ourselves. There is the factor of the Trump Slump 2.0. Right now there is this 2 year wall holding back allot of bad things. If the mid term goes south, it is w bad step. The next is a looney tunes next president. When you have on ever night we are coming  by for you and your guns again, people will panic buy again for sure. 
     The best hope we have short term is to come out in droves and win the mid terms. In the mid and long terms, we need to ban together to win all the court and legal proceedings possible. Win all the local seats we can. It all starts locally with politics. 
     West Virgina did not have all their new state level NFA things own out. It just got sidelined for now. My greatest conches is all these trances and these hormonal and psychological conditioned individuals. It will be easy for them to be turned on and set out there. 
     It is only a meter of time for some mass shooting / stabbing / explosive scenario to set the nation ablaze again. Look how they used a heavy set 65 year old paddock with no weapons training history. No one can shoot that acutely with a bump stock. It will not make a gun sound and shoot like an M240B. Yet at the heat of the moment people swallowed it up whole!!

     So ultimately it is all how it plays out in availability of FRTs, federal law changes, and certainly state law changes. 
 

“I do think the highest priced guns will be effected.  M16/mp5.  They may not be double price other nfa guns anymore .”

     I do agree with this idea from the last poster. Rare, unquote, historical, and selected items will stay high. I mean there will probably not be thousands of MK10 40mms with FRTs on them!! As far as the register conversion parts, like sears DIAS and others, well it may not be double price and so fast climbing anymore. Who knows….
     
     

[taylorwso]

On 7/26/2026 at 5:02 PM, Dean said:

Thanks not sure whether I hope they outlaw them or allow them.  6x transferables is eagerly awaiting.

that a fuud ass boomer thing to say, 

 

 

[taylorwso]

On 8/2/2026 at 9:54 AM, gamebit21 said:

     The FRT Triggers have a “settlements.” Federally. It is setting legal “precedence.” It is not however congressional “laws” that have been interacted. Nor is it Supreme Court Rulings.”     

  
       

people like you dont understand how the supreme court rulings on definitions, actually do change law.

They totally fuck the atf with the ruling of a "trigger pull" There is no way it will change unless the congress does it, and then only the republicans get gun control past.

if your worried about that shit, youll die younger than you should

[MGTedFL]

Governor Scott gifted Florida with an effective state law "FRT Ban" as he headed to the US Senate, almost 8 years ago. As the law is written here, anything that 'speeds-up the ROF above the "normal" rate of a Semi-automatic weapon...... is a no-no... Not countiing shoe-laces, internal recoiling mechanisms, belt loops etc., in ATF's history of diving for the bottom.

For a brief moment, we were concerned that our trigger packs and RDIAS were effectively outlawed....as they speed-up semi hosts.  The only thing that really "saved" us was the verbage in the law to the effect of ....unless previously approved by the Federal Govt. i.e. NFA.  So here in FL, the Gunshine State, where you pay no income taxes, get almost nothing in return and you are truly on your own..... (my family has been here 3+ generations, over 100 years) we have a legal "ban" on such devices....  I don't own one, can't buy one (legally), no one will ship one. Have I seen any enforcement....no, just like 922lr, but all it takes is just one un-hinged idiot for the party to end. These devices are everywhere.....at my range, where they used to be NFA paperwork Zealots, they don't check for anything anymore. ("We don't care, you should know the law") 

I like my papered RR's and "conversion devices" SBRs and cans (No un-papered suppressors or SBR's for me, thank you) and the real NFA guys are passionate about it....but I also understand where the thinking is coming from. Most of the younger generation have neither the funds, nor any appreciation of the history (NFA, GCA, FOPA, Hughes HR4332, etc)....nor do the care to undrstand. (Yes, there are actually 50 states in the US) I try to explain it to some youg Mall-Ninja all Tac-Johnny-ied with his PSA AR-15 and Chinese Christmas lights, hand-grips, flashlights  and lasers.... out at the range....and their eyes glaze over, after they ask me if my Colt M16 is a FRT?

And so it goes....FWIW, Ted.

[MGTedFL]

Oh, but open-up at an indoor range with a drum or belt fed 51/51B, and you might actually get a semi-intelligent question. 

[taylorwso]

On 7/28/2026 at 1:15 AM, Chef said:

It's not the "exact same thing".
FRT is a gimmick. And you "feel" the trigger pressing back every time the bolt cycles. FRTs are great for young, no money shooters looking for the "FA experience" while turning money into smoke at the range, but there will always be a demand for the "real thing".
To put it another way, FRTs are like kit cars. You can pretend you're driving a Shelby Cobra, or a Ferrari when you own one. They are a fraction of price of a real one and to most people, you will look just as cool as you drive by. But you're still only really driving an old fox body mustang or a fiero underneath the body kit.
Or wearing a fake Rolex watch. It still tells the time, but it's not the same thing.
With any replica, regardless of if it's apparel, cars or guns, there's no way you'll ever convince yourself that a fake is "just as good" as the real thing.

this is horseshit

prior sot, I could give you 2 identical mp5/frt and you cant tell the difference, even so much so, Ive seen a sear gun and 3x frts get mixed up on the table, cant tell

the only people who say such shit, are fudd ass boomers, or newbi dick heads that talk about glok grip angle.

I sold all my MGs/sears to newbis that tried to same the same thing, I so glad I am, this generation of new MGs are going to get fucked, because having a 50k mp5, or a 3K gun plus 47K in ammo will change the market.  

 

[gun_nerd]

On 8/20/2026 at 1:42 PM, taylorwso said:

prior sot, I could give you 2 identical mp5/frt and you cant tell the difference, even so much so, Ive seen a sear gun and 3x frts get mixed up on the table, cant tell

I agree with this. It's not Fiero vs Ferrari. It's like the difference between an original Shelby Cobra and a Superformance Cobra. Sure, everyone would take an original if they could get one, but you're not missing out on much driving around in a continuation car. I've shot an SP5 with the Rare Breed trigger and I can't tell the difference. I'm sure the trigger was resetting, but I didn't notice it, the selector functions the same, and the gun ran well without me using any special technique.

I'm 40 and I finally have the disposable income to buy maybe one mg per year. I'm no longer looking at HK sear guns, registered AR lowers, AKs, or Mac/Lage setups. I could buy an FRT to scratch that "shooter" grade gun itch. Instead I'm using those funds to buy more historically interesting and/or collectible mgs.

[Thumpy]

On 8/20/2026 at 12:42 PM, taylorwso said:

this is horseshit

prior sot, I could give you 2 identical mp5/frt and you cant tell the difference, even so much so, Ive seen a sear gun and 3x frts get mixed up on the table, cant tell

the only people who say such shit, are fudd ass boomers, or newbi dick heads that talk about glok grip angle.

I sold all my MGs/sears to newbis that tried to same the same thing, I so glad I am, this generation of new MGs are going to get fucked, because having a 50k mp5, or a 3K gun plus 47K in ammo will change the market.  

 

This and same I sold all my mgs besides my uzi a truthfully only reason I’m keeping my uzi is because I enjoy it to much to let it go and have to many memories. I’m willing to take the financial hit on it. But all my other mgs I sold at the top an have only seen them coming down in value!

[SGT Fish]

The biggest difference is in open bolt SMGs. You can definitely tell the difference between a full auto thompson and an FRT semi thompson. 

Is it a $20-30k difference? Thats up to you. But for most it isnt. 

 

Real full autos, especially amnesty guns and such, will always have a good collector value. But the market of shooters buying them is gonna be cut by quite a bit. 

[MontanaRenegade86]

58 minutes ago, Thumpy said:

This and same I sold all my mgs besides my uzi a truthfully only reason I’m keeping my uzi is because I enjoy it to much to let it go and have to many memories. I’m willing to take the financial hit on it. But all my other mgs I sold at the top an have only seen them coming down in value!

You had quite a collection at one time. 

Edited August 22 by MontanaRenegade86

[MontanaRenegade86]

Nice. 

I still prefer my beautifully minted Gold Eagles, but a big assed gold bar is nothing to scoff at. 

[gun_nerd]

I don't think the market for transferables is going to collapse because of FRTs. But I do think there will be a hit to the value of platforms where FRTs work really well, like ARs and HKs. I do still want an actual transferable, original Thompson at some point. I agree that guns that are originally open bolt may not be ideal for FRTs in a lot of cases. Some guns are more conducive to FRTs than others. AK FRTs sort of work, but are much more of a kludge than the HK triggers.

Shiny rocks are definitely a safer investment than guns. Although, now that I think about it, the government has tried confiscating gold in the past as well...

[Nome Nomad]

I'm a younger guy at 28. I have 12 transferables including "high end" ones like a M60 and Bren. Frts are awesome, most of these older guys talking them down have never even tried one! The super safety is the best frt IMO. I sold my M16A1 as the supersafety takes its place. None, I mean NONE of my shooting friends my age are looking at buying a transferable. They're just too expensive and when frts fill the longing void to go fast, why bother with NFA? 

[MPFiveO]

5 hours ago, Nome Nomad said:

None, I mean NONE of my shooting friends my age are looking at buying a transferable. They're just too expensive and when frts fill the longing void to go fast, why bother with NFA? 

Why?

Because that's the way you young guys think. Always looking for a shortcut to satisfaction. I was young once too, but it was about three decades ago, longer than you've been alive. I remember wanting everything on a shoestring budget. But over the years I've managed to scrape together two dozen transferable machine guns and over 30+ NFA items. I still have the first machine gun I bought 33 years ago. I seriously doubt any guys your age playing fast and loose will have any of your machine guns in ten or even five years. Most guys your age are just looking for the next cool thing and a vintage machine gun isn't going to be it. Guys your age get bored really quick. I still have all of mine because they mean something to me. They aren't just cool toys, they're pieces of history. FRT's will never be a piece of history, more likely that they'll be history one day.

I love playing with FRT's. I have a few and many of my friends also have a few. They're really close to the real thing. I have a M16A1 clone with a FRT that is as close as one can get to my real Colt M16A1. My buddy has a FRT in his MP5 that runs exactly like my German HK MP5 sear gun.

But, I'm not selling any of my machine guns because of FRT's. I'm actually keeping my machine guns because of FRT's. After 92 years it's unlikely they're going to mess with transferable machine guns. I don't have the same warm fuzzy feeling about FRT's. I seriously doubt that they'll still be a thing 92 years from now, 33 years from now, or possibly even 3 years from now.

I'm playing the long game. I'll hang on to my transferable machine guns until I'm ready to let them go. I'm not worried about what they're worth now or ten years from now. I'm going to continue to enjoy taking them to the range until I can't. I don't need the money and might even add some more to the collection. I'm in it for the fun of it from here on out. I never looked at them as investments. I bought them because I wanted to own them and shoot them.

You guys seem to think this winning streak will never end but I've seen what can happen when the wrong people are in charge. Enjoy it while it lasts. One day you'll look back and realize that all of these Fudd's were speaking from experience. I truly hope that 33 years from now you can look back and say that everything is just peachy. We are living in two different worlds on two different timelines. I have doubts about the future.

[M38A1-Josh]

Well I kind of proved myself wrong when I said previously that I removed myself from the MG market because of FRTs. I bought my first two transferables last week because I found some great deals, and there is no FRT modern substitute for an MP40 made in 1942.

[johnsonlmg41]

12 hours ago, M38A1-Josh said:

Well I kind of proved myself wrong when I said previously that I removed myself from the MG market because of FRTs. I bought my first two transferables last week because I found some great deals, and there is no FRT modern substitute for an MP40 made in 1942.

D-K production MP40... you could  be the guy that makes an FRT for it?   Personally I'll FRT my smith FG42's and see how that goes?  Then you got something!

[Dean]

What is gonna hurt is if ATF bans them like bump stocks.  I would hate to have reaquire my transferables at a higher price and go through the hassle of even finding them.

Edited August 28 by Dean

[MPFiveO]

19 minutes ago, Dean said:

What is gonna hurt is if ATF bans them like bump stocks.  I would hate to have reaquire my transferables at a higher price and go through the hassle of even finding them.

Maybe you didn't think this through and contemplate the "what if" enough.

As I've said, FRT's are a lot of fun to play with. They're inexpensive, unregulated and so far completely legal in my state. There's nothing keeping me and my friends from enjoying them currently. But all that can change in an instant. I won't even go into describing scenarios because we all know what they are.

If shooting fast meant that much to you then you probably should have kept at least one for yourself for that possible rainy day.

While I have several guns that could be substituted with FRT equipped clones, I have several that there is no substitute for. Like M38A1-Josh's MP40, I have three WWII Subguns that just can't be found on the FRT market. There's no FRT Reising M50, no M3 Grease Gun and no Savage Thompson M1A1 made during WWII with the 1968 Amnesty paperwork.

I saw absolutely no reason to dump my trio of Colt M16's because they each represent their own decade of existence. I'm not letting go of my SWD converted receiver either, it is a fantastic shooter.

While the AUG can be fitted with a FRT, there probably won't be one for the FN FNC. There are MP5 FRT's but none yet for the rifle calibers like my 53, 51, 93, G3K and G3 that my sear works in.

I'm not sure if anyone is working on a FRT for the .30 M1 Carbine but I still wouldn't part with my M2 Carbine.

There's no current semi auto equivalent of the S&W Model 76 and it's clones. Even if there was it probably wouldn't run with a .22 conversion kit like mine does. There's absolutely no way I'm giving that one up.

And of course the Uzi. There's just no substitute for the smooth shooting open bolt carbine. I'll probably get a .22 kit for that at some point too.

Not sure if there are FRT's for the MAC series but the machine guns win for the number of accessories and aftermarket support.

And, even if they make a FRT for the Browning M2 .50 BMG I'm not selling my RAMO. It was built by a good friend who was a C2 for over 30 years and I was there when he built it up from a bare side plate. It's been running great for three decades.

I hope FRT's stick around for the foreseeable future. We're all enjoying playing with them. Nothing worse than having Lucy snatch the football at the last second.

[Chef]

10 hours ago, Dean said:

What is gonna hurt is if ATF bans them like bump stocks.  I would hate to have reaquire my transferables at a higher price and go through the hassle of even finding them.

I guess you should have thought about that before you sold them! 
You can't possibly believe that FRTs are a permanent thing. States are banning them like crazy and I'm sure the feds are working on it as well. Especially considering they are becoming as popular as "switches", and you see what happened with them.
Lots of people/companies are rushing to design and manufacture new FRTs for every popular platform, and if the feds aren't prioritizing banning them in this administration, you can bet they will in the next.   

Thank goodness you're not my financial planner! I'd be broke!
 

[gamebit21]

     Normally I do not go there. “Mr. Taylorswo”, 

I never claimed to be some super expert anything. I do have eyes, ears, and a brain that allows be to process things I have witnessed myself for example. Here it is in a nutshell for FRTs:

Yes, a future administration can absolutely attempt to federally ban forced reset triggers (FRTs), but strong legal precedent makes an executive branch ban highly unlikely to succeed.

While the May 2025 DOJ settlement with Rare Breed Triggers resolved the active federal lawsuits at that time, a settlement agreement does not permanently change federal statutory law. A new administration could instruct the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to draft a new regulatory rule reclassifying them. However, existing legal precedents act as a massive roadblock against such an action.[1, 2, 3]

 

---

 

How Legal Precedence Specifically Helps FRTs

If a future administration attempts to implement a new federal ban via executive action or an ATF rule change, gun rights groups will immediately sue. Two distinct legal precedents would likely cause federal courts to strike down the new ban almost immediately:

 

1. Statutory Precedent: Garland v. Cargill (2024)

In Garland v. Cargill, the Supreme Court struck down the federal bump stock ban. The Court strictly defined a "machine gun" under the National Firearms Act (NFA) based on the physical mechanics of the firearm, ruling that if a device requires the trigger to reset and perform a distinct mechanical function for every single shot fired, it is not a machine gun. [1, 2, 3]

• The Impact on FRTs: Because an FRT mechanically forces the trigger to reset between every shot—meaning the trigger mechanically functions once per round—it directly fits the safety definitions affirmed by the Supreme Court in Cargill. Lower federal courts (such as the 5th Circuit) have already used this exact precedent to rule that FRTs cannot be classified as machine guns. [1, 2, 3]

 

2. Administrative Precedent: The End of Chevron Deference

The Supreme Court also dismantled "Chevron deference," a legal doctrine that previously allowed federal agencies like the ATF wide latitude in interpreting ambiguous federal laws.

• The Impact on FRTs: Under current administrative law, the ATF can no longer independently expand the definition of a "machine gun" to capture new technologies. Only Congress has the constitutional authority to change the law to ban a specific device. [1, 2]

 

---

 

The Only Way a Permanent Federal Ban Happens

For a federal ban to legally stick, Congress would have to pass new legislation specifically rewriting the legal definition of a machine gun to explicitly include active-reset or forced-reset devices. [1]

An executive-level ban or ATF rule change would face a virtually insurmountable hurdle in federal court because the Supreme Court has already closed the loophole that allowed the executive branch to reclassify rapid-fire accessories on its own.

 

**********
- the first Trump Term was the Trump slump 1.0

- We are now in the Trump Slump 2.0.

- NFA Items have overall temporarily slowed down and flattened out on prices. Some have even dropped some. 
- the midterm is one milestone to cross.

- The next is in 2 years at the end of Trumps Term. 
- The next will be the how good or how bad the next term is. 
- one thing is for sure. Things have settled down as much as I or allot of other people have seen in years on the 2A World. 
- The future is always a big ?? Mark!!

Edited August 30 by gamebit21

[Shattered]

2 hours ago, gamebit21 said:

   

The Only Way a Permanent Federal Ban Happens

For a federal ban to legally stick, Congress would have to pass new legislation specifically rewriting the legal definition of a machine gun to explicitly include active-reset or forced-reset devices. [1]

An executive-level ban or ATF rule change would face a virtually insurmountable hurdle in federal court because the Supreme Court has already closed the loophole that allowed the executive branch to reclassify rapid-fire accessories on its own.

 

 

Consider this... Trump finally pisses off enough people that the next Presidential race goes for a Democratic landslide. The Presidency, the Senate, the House... everything. Looney President (AOC, Clinton, Michele, Harris, ad nauseum) direct the Democratic stuffed congress (both houses and the freshly packed Supreme Court with 13 judges, not 9)  to ban semi-auto guns entirely (mebbe MGs as well).

All. it would take for a catalyst would be a nutjob to shoot up a mall-movie theater-sidewalk full of people-church... pick your favorite gun free zone. That's the end for us. Don't think your FRTs will remain legal. And I'm afraid (betting) that with the explosion of FRTs available, somewhere, somehow, some basement dwelling computer wargaming expert loner with no girlfriend is going to F@#K up and screw us all.

Edited August 30 by Shattered
more to rant about

[MontanaRenegade86]

The Statists don't have to round up any guns when they can just sit back and wait for the gun culture to die out naturally.

I'll posit that our biggest enemy isn't the gun-hating Libturds or the Incel Neckbeard Misanthropes, it's actually the people we see in the mirror everyday.

How's that, you say?

Because the average American Patriot has children, grand-children, or great grand-children in the cesspool known as the public school system. I'm sure everybody here has heard of those God-forsaken taxpayer funded institutions that teach such important concepts as: Critical Race Theory, Gender Ideology & Identification, Sexual Perversion & Degeneracy, Marxism/Communism/Socialism, the Deconstruction of the Traditional Family, and how the United States Constitution is just a bunch of bullshit penned by a group of genocidal white supremacist bastards. 

But, hey, public school is free, right? Not when it's killing the very essence of our American identity. 

Sorry, boys, I never pass up the opportunity to piss all over the public school system. 

 

 

[johnsonlmg41]

5 hours ago, Shattered said:

Consider this... Trump finally pisses off enough people that the next Presidential race goes for a Democratic landslide. The Presidency, the Senate, the House... everything. Looney President (AOC, Clinton, Michele, Harris, ad nauseum) direct the Democratic stuffed congress (both houses and the freshly packed Supreme Court with 13 judges, not 9)  to ban semi-auto guns entirely (mebbe MGs as well).

All. it would take for a catalyst would be a nutjob to shoot up a mall-movie theater-sidewalk full of people-church... pick your favorite gun free zone. That's the end for us. Don't think your FRTs will remain legal. And I'm afraid (betting) that with the explosion of FRTs available, somewhere, somehow, some basement dwelling computer wargaming expert loner with no girlfriend is going to F@#K up and screw us all.

Correct.   To verify, check history 1929-1934, both here and Germany for more information on how it plays out.  They are indeed EXPERTS at increasing crime rates and inducing a crisis.  The mask wearers are proof positive they can inflict massive large scale brain damage and never be held accountable for mass murder on so many levels.

[gamebit21]

     It’s very sad our 2A Constitutional Rights will be lost due to some tranny person pumped full hormones, disfigured by surgeries, and filled with the doctrine  ( or lack of reality) of the public school education. 
     Imagine a field in the future with monuments to people who made great changes in history. You will have statues of generals, leaders, and so many people. At the end of the row will be some mutant guy who is no longer a man. Parts of his body have been chopped off. He will have a crazy smile on his face. The tranny will have transitioned our country into a police state.  
     It is also ironic the government itself created an environment for crime to grow. Prohibition just set the stage for a black market in alcohol. When you take away a right to something that average citizens and cultures want, it just continued as a black market. 
     It also does not help there is no more justice anymore. People do not get punished for crimes. They are just let go….

Edited August 31 by gamebit21

[Chef]

14 hours ago, Shattered said:

Consider this... Trump finally pisses off enough people that the next Presidential race goes for a Democratic landslide. The Presidency, the Senate, the House... everything. Looney President (AOC, Clinton, Michele, Harris, ad nauseum) direct the Democratic stuffed congress (both houses and the freshly packed Supreme Court with 13 judges, not 9)  to ban semi-auto guns entirely (mebbe MGs as well).

All. it would take for a catalyst would be a nutjob to shoot up a mall-movie theater-sidewalk full of people-church... pick your favorite gun free zone. That's the end for us. Don't think your FRTs will remain legal. And I'm afraid (betting) that with the explosion of FRTs available, somewhere, somehow, some basement dwelling computer wargaming expert loner with no girlfriend is going to F@#K up and screw us all.

This is indeed the future. 
The leftists are heavily infected with TDS and it's spreading to the so-called "moderates" (and even a lot of conservatives) like the zombie virus. So the left gaining control is a foregone conclusion. 
And even though there are a lot of radical leftist groups who are arming themselves (including the trannies), the vast majority of the left wants private (civilian) ownership of all guns to be banned completely, and you can bet they already have pre-written laws and presidential orders ready to implement the moment they can. 
FRTs are simply the catalyst that will make the left's dream of a "commonwealth" type of gun ban reality. 
Just imagine CNN and the other major network news and morning shows all showing videos of rednecks outfitted with plate carriers and helmets, shooting firearms equipped with FRTs and comparing them to scenes of Vietnam or the middle east and claiming that the racist, white supremacist, right wing militias are armed with "military grade weapons" that can be ordered online and equipped with short barrels and silencers and therefore, virtually undetectable in public and having more firepower than the police! 
It won't take years after the new administration is in power for these new restrictions and laws to be enacted, it won't even take months! It will be weeks. That's how quickly they are going to act on this. 
Banning guns is going to be their second priority, with the first being abolishing ICE and enacting an "open borders" policy with a fast track to citizenship to "naturalize" as many migrants as they can, including "repatriatizing" every illegal we have deported, with free tickets back to America, reparation payments and instant citizenship, as quickly as they can to boost their voter base to practically guarantee they will retain control of government decades into the future. 

[MPFiveO]

This isn't too far fetched from the reality that we've already seen. The Left, Dem's, Radicals or whatever you want to call them used to keep their agenda hidden but now they're already out there with their full blown communist plan. The only way to implement a communist agenda is to disarm the populace. And, just like they did in 1986, they picked the smallest group of gun owners they could find and divided them from the rest. They did the same thing again in 1989, 1994, etc...

The Founders of this country were well aware that we were all given free will by our creator, and that our rights should be enshrined in a lasting document. The Second Amendment is the one that guarantees all the other rights cannot be just taken away.

Gun control has always been about population control. If they wanted actual gun control that worked they'd call it crime control and go after the criminals. But in order to make the sheep feel safe they pass legislation that only disarms law abiding citizens. They will never stop...

Their goal is to constantly pressure the populace using the media and, by sensationalizing mass shootings and murders, convince everyone that no one can be trusted with firearms, because only the police and military are responsible enough to use them. And going a step further, even the police and military can't be trusted while they're not on duty. At the end of their shift they'll turn in all their firearms and ammunition before going home to their disarmed family. It will be the Utopia that they always dreamed of. I know people always feel safer anytime they see armed National Guard troops deployed and know that they don't have any ammunition. That's happened many times.

Anyway, I think everyone has their own opinion of FRT's whether good, bad or indifferent. The bottom line is, the Left is going to use the first opportunity they have to divide the group that is legally enjoying them and call them wolves. They will call on the government to pass legislation and make the sheep feel safe from the devices while actually doing nothing about crime and criminals. This is the way it's always been. They will never stop. Enjoy it while you can.

Anyone else ever notice that we're constantly fighting to get back rights that they're constantly fighting to take away?

[Thumpy]

Yeah or how about we just not completely think the worst will happen… yall are the same dudes that said Obama was going to take the guns and only thing Obama did was sell guns to the cartel and make getting NFA stuff easier ( no Leo sign off’s) lol 

[M38A1-Josh]

Ya I'm having the time of my life currently and I will roll with whatever comes, good or bad. Keep donating to GOA and enjoy the party going on right now. I have some awesome range weekends lined up over the next 3 months. Get out there and shoot!

[gamebit21]

Hitler the Famous Gun Control Quote

 

“This year will go down in history. For the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future”

This statement pretty much sums up and sounds like all the rhetoric that we are hearing from the far left gun grabbers….

 

 

**** All in favor of gun control, raise your right hand!! ****

[SGT Fish]

4 hours ago, Thumpy said:

Yeah or how about we just not completely think the worst will happen… yall are the same dudes that said Obama was going to take the guns and only thing Obama did was sell guns to the cartel and make getting NFA stuff easier ( no Leo sign off’s) lol 

IIRC. Eforms for form 1s started under Obama. You had to have a trust or llc because you didnt need fingerprints or pics for them back then.