NickFromAK Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 I have a MM23e from Michael's Machines sitting around completely unfired waiting for a sear. Since buying my tastes in guns have gone from Beltfeds and rifle caliber to almost exclusively subguns. Are these worth owning with a sear (or FRT)? Do they have any investment value and worth keeping for that aspect? Or should I dump it for another subgun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
har1690 Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 I think you gave yourself your answer. Of course owning your MM23e is worth it if you have a sear and than sum. Completly understand with the cost of ammo today it might be an issue. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPFiveO Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 I guess it depends on where you are with your tastes in collecting. Not having a sear makes a 23 a lot less interesting. However, Rare Breed is now making a HK compatible trigger, though I don't know if it will specifically work with the belt fed system. I know there are a few differences that must be worked around in some to install a registered sear. I put a Rare Breed FRT in a AR lower to use with my Shrike belt fed upper and it performs every bit as good as it did with my M16 lower. Because the Shrike needs a special bolt catch, recoil spring and feed box adapter I chose to go the FRT route rather than having to swap out parts on a registered lower when I wanted to change configurations. I load my own ammo so prices don't affect me as much unless components get ridiculous like primers did a while back, but they have since come back down to reasonable levels. I just ordered a small quantity of 5.56 projectiles for .10 each and some .45 FMJ for around .15 each. I just bought a Thompson M1A1 so I'm trying to restock my supply of .45 ACP that my M3 Grease Gun gobbled up, though it gobbles slowly... As for the investment aspect, Michael's Machines has a very good reputation, but if he stops making them and parts become scarce then the value could be affected in a negative way. I never really looked at my HK sear hosts as investments. They were literally hosts for the parasitic ammo sucking machine gun sear. I've smooth bored at least one .308 HK clone because the host was cheap and the ammo was cheap back in the day. The only return on investment I'll ever see from that is the miles of smiles it brought over the years. In the end, you have to ask yourself what you'd be most happy with. Everyone else's opinion doesn't really matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 I had a 23EK and while it was fun, it wasn’t worth the cost of ownership…that being said, I sold my pair of pre sample HK MP5’s and bought a sear then realized that it wasn’t worth it. The 223/556 belt fed is just about worthless at a belt fed shoot when the stuff is 150-200 yards off…need 30 caliber for that. Sure you can make your E gun into a 308….for another $6k-$7k more…but is it worth it? Spare parts for E guns are stupid money anymore too. Sure you can get aftermarket ones, but even those aren’t that good at times. “investment” is one of the worst words ever associated with NFA and firearms in general. Buy it to shoot and enjoy, if you don’t shoot it, and or don’t want to sink $50k into a sear for it, then move it on to get something else. RB “not a machine gun” units don’t work with rifle caliber stuff at this point. AS Designs is bringing one out that is supposed to, but we will see….buying a semi auto belt fed or holding onto one just to have a gimmick sort of like an HK sear doesn’t make much sense either. At some point these trigger units are going to cause more harm than good but that’s another discussion for another day…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFromAK Posted April 19 Author Report Share Posted April 19 Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll hold onto it to use one day. If it's fairly stable in value, then I'm not losing out too much keeping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 On 4/19/2026 at 3:05 PM, Got Uzi said: I had a 23EK and while it was fun, it wasn’t worth the cost of ownership…that being said, I sold my pair of pre sample HK MP5’s and bought a sear then realized that it wasn’t worth it. The 223/556 belt fed is just about worthless at a belt fed shoot when the stuff is 150-200 yards off…need 30 caliber for that. Sure you can make your E gun into a 308….for another $6k-$7k more…but is it worth it? Spare parts for E guns are stupid money anymore too. Sure you can get aftermarket ones, but even those aren’t that good at times. “investment” is one of the worst words ever associated with NFA and firearms in general. Buy it to shoot and enjoy, if you don’t shoot it, and or don’t want to sink $50k into a sear for it, then move it on to get something else. RB “not a machine gun” units don’t work with rifle caliber stuff at this point. AS Designs is bringing one out that is supposed to, but we will see….buying a semi auto belt fed or holding onto one just to have a gimmick sort of like an HK sear doesn’t make much sense either. At some point these trigger units are going to cause more harm than good but that’s another discussion for another day…. I agree with some of what you said, disagree on a couple points. First, in my opinion the 23E is the pinnacle of HK sear hosts/MGs. I absolutely love mine. Second, 100-200 yards is absolutely fine for 5.56. I’ve shot my 23E out to 500 yards and it’s fun. At 200 yards it’s great fun to drop 2-4 round bursts onto steel. Third, the 21E in 308 is also fantastic, though a bit of a rougher ride. That said I can make 2-3 round bursts hit onto steel at 200 yards off hand and am even better off the tripod. The 21E is absolutely worth owning, though for a little more than the cost of the 21E conversion parts, one can buy a 21 host built using the FMP parts kits that were recently imported. Mike/MM has a great reputation and has piles of spare parts. He’s also easy to get ahold of and provides outstanding customer service. @NickFromAK you should pick up an HK sear if you can. The mp5 is hands down my favorite SMG to shoot. And then you can use it in your mm23E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 I make my references to shooting at MG shoots like Knob Creek where you aren’t getting the punch for going through cars and hitting the charges inside, that’s why I said 308 is better for that. I used to shoot my 23EK out to 500 on steel and yes it was fun, but that lost its fun after awhile when a bolt gun could do the same thing. I do agree that the 21E is rough on the shooter as is a stock 21, but a 21 with the 36 degree locking piece is fun to shoot (least I think so) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFromAK Posted April 22 Author Report Share Posted April 22 3 hours ago, Got Uzi said: I used to shoot my 23EK out to 500 Were you at a personal range or is there a club near you that allows shooting Mags out that far? Or do you have an "in" at Tusco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Im a life member at Tusco. Had it over on the 600 and shot it semi just to see if it was possible to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 On 4/22/2026 at 11:51 AM, NickFromAK said: Were you at a personal range or is there a club near you that allows shooting Mags out that far? Or do you have an "in" at Tusco? In my case I belong to a club with multiple long distance ranges. One with steel starting at 500 and going out to a mile. One with steel from 100 to 1270. And one with steel at known distance out to 1100. It’s a MG friendly range and absolutely glorious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhouston8 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 Hey Nick. What's up? I've owned a MM23e (w 21e kit) x 16 years now - shooting the snot out of it the entire time....as in 200 rnd belt dumps at a time and over weekends at OFASTS while swapping barrels out I go thru maybe 2500 rnds on it ( bc I'm shooting other guns to!). I actually recently bought a 2cd one. MM is on the line spots next to me and has graciously assisted after I've torture tested the gun...small part breakage , etc etc . I bet I have around 75k rnds thru my primary mm23e . They are expensive - to own, maintain , and feed....as all beltfeds and esp HK designs are. That said it's my favorite beltfed, bar none. Nothing more fun than a mow the grass, cars with a 200 rnd attached box , off shoulder. My next fav is M60 for perspective of shoulder fired beltfeds. Shrike just cant take the heat build up. Would I own a MM23e without a sear....NO ! I wouldnt own ANY semi beltfed though.... FRTs aside. Will mm23e hold its value? prob. but like other posters stated I don't view guns as investments - def not semis but one could argue that Title IIs are ...fine. That would be the hk sear though and not the MM23e (or any host). I'd either sell the gun or buy a sear and shoot it as God intended. I'm serious. oh as far as those whining about ammo costs and beltfeds in the same sentence....sheeesh...get sum M2HB action ...then you can cry. Blast 1000- 2000 rnds of that in a day...ouch!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 you the dude that sold me my house in AKs that had the m60s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFromAK Posted April 26 Author Report Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, taylorwso said: you the dude that sold me my house in AKs that had the m60s? No, but I probably know him or of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 Id keep the beltfed for a frt that's on the way. Ive sold my all my MGs except my minimi, and all of my 21e/23s/21s will have them.. youll eventually want a beltfed, after your subgun phase, because there is nothing like clapping off 200rds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFromAK Posted April 27 Author Report Share Posted April 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, taylorwso said: Id keep the beltfed for a frt that's on the way. Ive sold my all my MGs except my minimi, and all of my 21e/23s/21s will have them.. youll eventually want a beltfed, after your subgun phase, because there is nothing like clapping off 200rds I've shot enough beltfeds in the Army to know I want a GPMG (but never a M249s SAW / Minimi). My apprehension with the 23e is availability of parts, relatively involved maintenance when compared to most other modern beltfeds, and its closed bolt. I'll give mine a try with the FRT to see if it's worth a sear, but there's no other HK platform firearm to host that sear that interests me, including the MP5 (too boring and easy to shoot). Edited April 27 by NickFromAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhouston8 Posted April 27 Report Share Posted April 27 BLASPHEMY ^^^ ...repent now concerning your MP5 statement or else be thrown into the burning pit of doom. If you have no interest in multiple HK hosts then def don't purchase a sear....or a 23e which like any beltfed I'd only want if I had a sear. I just am not knowledgeable or experienced nor have seen a 23e with a FRT. Maybe one day. They might be great. I dunno. Until then I can't rec' a FRT or sear-less 23e. As far as lack of 23e parts...That does apply to German HK parts only. Def the case. But as far as MM23e parts - no issues x 16 years and counting for me on my gun. Easy to buy a few spare parts that are known to wear...barrels, I bought an extra couple bolts and a bunch of small parts. No big deal. Just like any other beltfed really. Small parts and springs crap out and ya replace them, etc. The 23e does great as a closed bolt IMO. I do heavy vol dump after dump - I just swap out the barrel every 200-500 rnds if I'm going nearly continuous. I have witnessed first hand a dude on the line spot next to me shoot a continuous 900 round belt on his 23e. It did cook off at the end. The only cook off I've ever seen. Glowing red barrel. It was a torture test. my 2 cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted April 27 Report Share Posted April 27 14 hours ago, NickFromAK said: I've shot enough beltfeds in the Army to know I want a GPMG (but never a M249s SAW / Minimi). My apprehension with the 23e is availability of parts, relatively involved maintenance when compared to most other modern beltfeds, and its closed bolt. I'll give mine a try with the FRT to see if it's worth a sear, but there's no other HK platform firearm to host that sear that interests me, including the MP5 (too boring and easy to shoot). actually once you get a 23e running, really not much to do, bolts do break and ejector springs wear. mostly burning out barrels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshNC Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 (edited) On 4/26/2026 at 8:13 PM, NickFromAK said: I've shot enough beltfeds in the Army to know I want a GPMG (but never a M249s SAW / Minimi). My apprehension with the 23e is availability of parts, relatively involved maintenance when compared to most other modern beltfeds, and its closed bolt. I'll give mine a try with the FRT to see if it's worth a sear, but there's no other HK platform firearm to host that sear that interests me, including the MP5 (too boring and easy to shoot). Otte has all the spare parts and has great customer service. The spare parts are a non-issue. Buy your lifetime supply of spare parts now- boltheads, locking pieces, barrels, recoil springs, ejector springs, bolt locking springs… Edited May 2 by JoshNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGTedFL Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) HK Host Whore from FL here.....with my 2 cents..... A single DLO box (actually two...one setup for 9mm the other for rifle caliber with heavy hammer spring)...bought them both direct from Doug in Arcadia years ago, RIP.... ....the very best of all worlds...... MP5, MP5k, MP5K PDW, MP5 Reverse Stretch, MP5SD with RDTS & B&T Hollywood can, KCA can also gets it done. HK53, HK53SD (yes, it does exist) HK33K, G3, G3K, HK51B, and my all-time fav HK51 with G8 Drum....and 8 foot muzzle fireball.....try that indoors Soon to add HK21 to the mix.... (Ditto to Josh's post above) A world without a HK conversion device (pack, box, sear, etc)...... is like a world without sunshine. Uzi - one gun, Pig - one gun, M16 one gun with lots of uppers.... HK, anything you can come-up with that has a shelf. FWIW, Ted Edited May 3 by MGTedFL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPFiveO Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 4 minutes ago, MGTedFL said: G3, G3K, HK51B, and my all-time fav HK51 with G8 Drum....and 8 foot muzzle fireball.....try that indoors I remember going to an indoor range in FL years ago with my HK 53 that had a Vollmer brake on it. My buddy and I took turns shooting it. The fireballs were impressive but the concussion of the brake was eating away at the ceiling tiles knocking dust everywhere. When we finished shooting we turned around and saw nothing but faces with big eyes watching us through the windows. It was quite a show. That Vollmer brake is no joke. Last night another buddy was sharing his story of shooting my HK 51. After a couple of mags he felt something in his mouth. It was a crown from his tooth. That few seconds of riding the dragon cost him $2600 in dental work. He's much happier with the new crown. Life is definitely less exciting without an HK sear. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGTedFL Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 I have one of those original 223/556 HK53 Vollmer Brakes. I had to swap it out...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhouston8 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 I LOVE that loosened crown by hk51 story. that's pure awesome. yes my MM51 is my biggest fire breather. Best w Tula steel case as opposed to really good milspec Lake City etc etc ... Fire for Effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGTedFL Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) HH, I forgot to list my Vector HK51K, with the 4.5" barrel and Vertical K grip. Uses a modified AK recoil spiring. Oddly enough, not quite the same boom & flame as the 8" HK51. The tenderizer-looking bruising on the front of my shoulder...now that is another thing. Haven't lost a crown......yet! Edited May 3 by MGTedFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGTedFL Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 Oops, wrong pics...didn't mean to Jack another's image..... Here we go. K has an ACE on her now.... both Vectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhouston8 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 beautiful gun, yes my precious . Yes...my 51 also is def. more shock and awe than my 51k... Go figure. Hope you are good MGTED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGTedFL Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 ...the magic of 8.85 inches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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