Machine Gun stolen from USPS Registered mail

[bigbore]

A mint condition transferable C&R Original IMI UZI disappeared in Detroit on Feb 6th.  All the USPS has to say about it is to file the insurance claim.  I'm working with State Representative Latta and Senator Moreno on getting some answers. 

Edited February 27 by bigbore

[United Surplus Arms]

make sure the sender fills out the proper ATF forms and reports it stolen to local LE and ATF.

I would also contact USPS Postal Inspector service directly.

Hopefully it is just "missing" and not stolen.  Good luck

 

Edited February 27 by United Surplus Arms

[bigbore]

I'm the sender.  USPS Postal Inspector service started looking for it 2 weeks ago.  It's stolen.  I can't get any answers other than them telling me to file the insurance claim.

[MPFiveO]

This is not good news. Registered Mail was the safest way to ship a machine gun or high value item. Hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it. It will be equally interesting to see if they pay the claim.

[Uncle Zeek]

2 hours ago, MPFiveO said:

This is not good news. Registered Mail was the safest way to ship a machine gun or high value item. Hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it. It will be equally interesting to see if they pay the claim.

Ugh, agreed.   I send almost all mine via registered mail because it's supposed to be handed off person to person every step of the way.   OP - I hate to ask, but did you have an airtag or other tracker in the box?

[Mustbeme]

I had an item "lost" (not anything of this magnitude but a cool item none-the-less) for 1.5 months.  File missing package forms >> Filed a claim >> claim paid >> item arrived in perfect condition 1.5 months later. Even the box was unscathed.

There is a window in which to file a claim.  I purposely delayed this so they wouldn't take the easy route and pay out and give up.

Pls let us know what happens.

[bigbore]

14 minutes ago, Uncle Zeek said:

Ugh, agreed.   I send almost all mine via registered mail because it's supposed to be handed off person to person every step of the way.   OP - I hate to ask, but did you have an airtag or other tracker in the box?

No Air tag.  All that would tell me is which dumpster they threw it away in after they opened the box.

[bigbore]

10 minutes ago, Mustbeme said:

I had an item "lost" (not anything of this magnitude but a cool item none-the-less) for 1.5 months.  File missing package forms >> Filed a claim >> claim paid >> item arrived in perfect condition 1.5 months later. Even the box was unscathed.

There is a window in which to file a claim.  I purposely delayed this so they wouldn't take the easy route and pay out and give up.

Pls let us know what happens.

60 day window for date mailed to file the claim,

I heard today unofficially that it was stolen.  They caught the guy who stole it, and it is now evidence.  I was told to file the insurance claim because I'm never getting it back.   I'm betting they are not going to tell me they have it until after the time expires on the claim so the government can steal it from me officially.   if it's true that they have it, I don't want the insurance, I want the gun back.   I should have that as an option.  

But, I know nothing officially and probably never will because it will make everything easier for them if I cash their insurance check.

[Uncle Zeek]

35 minutes ago, bigbore said:

60 day window for date mailed to file the claim,

I heard today unofficially that it was stolen.  They caught the guy who stole it, and it is now evidence.  I was told to file the insurance claim because I'm never getting it back.   I'm betting they are not going to tell me they have it until after the time expires on the claim so the government can steal it from me officially.   if it's true that they have it, I don't want the insurance, I want the gun back.   I should have that as an option.  

But, I know nothing officially and probably never will because it will make everything easier for them if I cash their insurance check.

Then by all means notify ATF and FBI that its stolen and tell them that you want it back.   While it may sit in an evidence locker for a long time, it should eventually get returned to you.

[bigbore]

8 minutes ago, Uncle Zeek said:

Then by all means notify ATF and FBI that its stolen and tell them that you want it back.   While it may sit in an evidence locker for a long time, it should eventually get returned to you.

As soon as I get proof from my congressmen that will happen.   Today ATF tells me they havent even seen the theft loss report yet that I submitted on the 18th. 

Edited February 27 by bigbore

[hkg3k]

1 hour ago, Uncle Zeek said:

OP - I hate to ask, but did you have an airtag or other tracker in the box?

 

1 hour ago, bigbore said:

No Air tag.  All that would tell me is which dumpster they threw it away in after they opened the box.

Maybe...but then maybe it goes to the privacy of their home or other identifiable location to open and discover their ill-gotten gain...then to the dumpster.  Thieves are not known to be particularly smart. 

I bet the thief probably didn't know what was in the package...just that it was registered mail, and by association, valuable.

My SOP in the past few years is to ship USPS Ground Advantage (insured by my 3rd party insurance co.) and throw both a GPS tracker (communicates via cell network) and a Tile.  With both I have virtually continuous tracking on my package.  Tiles actually surprised me at how good they are.

Good luck.  I'd definitely get as many alphabet agencies involved, that will take an interest.

Edited February 27 by hkg3k

[KickStand]

I’m sorry to hear this but an AirTag is cheap extra insurance. It’s possible, the air tag could’ve told you a lot (Who, when, where). 
 

keep us posted. 

Edited February 27 by KickStand

[Uncle Zeek]

Hm.   After thinking about this thread, I may start placing my Tile trackers INSIDE the guns when possible, and let the receipient know they'll have to open the gun to remove it.    

[Rex Tyson]

I always ship MGs with USPS registered mail. I recently shipped a handgun to TN and a rifle to MO. Everything in KY goes through Louisville which has become a bottomless cavern for mail. You can google the issues there. Anyway, I had to file claims on both because there was no movement on either for over a week. The rifle was found and delivered and the handgun never found. No way to know what it was on the outside and it wasnt that much money, so I dont think anyone stole it because it was a gun. Just a lucky guess for $400. Good luck collecting any money from them~past experience.... Hopefully it is returned.

[bigbore]

46 minutes ago, KickStand said:

I’m sorry to hear this but an AirTag is cheap extra insurance. It’s possible, the air tag could’ve told you a lot (Who, when, where). 
 

keep us posted. 

The AirTag wouldn't have helped.  It's just been confirmed the UZI is part of a criminal investigation and I'm not getting it back.   I can file my insurance claim and get my $25K back or wait a few years and see how much I'll have to pay an attorney to get it back in who knows what condition. 

[MPFiveO]

I'd have an attorney on it already. It's not really legal for them to confiscate your property that was stolen and say they're keeping it. That's pretty much theft too. A good attorney with some connections should be able to fix this. Please keep us posted.

[bigbore]

5 minutes ago, MPFiveO said:

I'd have an attorney on it already. It's not really legal for them to confiscate your property that was stolen and say they're keeping it. That's pretty much theft too. A good attorney with some connections should be able to fix this. Please keep us posted.

It's evidence in a federal criminal prosecution now.  They basically said file my insurance claim and go away.

[StrangeRanger]

A good lawyer might be able to change their minds on that

[Mark2]

There was a time that you could safely ship the Hope Diamond via USPS. DEI ended all that ;(

[johnsonlmg41]

1 hour ago, bigbore said:

It's evidence in a federal criminal prosecution now.  They basically said file my insurance claim and go away.

While it may be evidence it doesn't mean you don't get it back.  I'd call atf, make them aware and they should at some point be able to retrieve it for you and return it..  I had this happen and USPS postal inspector's could not legally return it, but they did have to surrender it to atf who returned the MG to me as the registrant.  

I did get a follow up call from the tracing center within a week confirming that I did get it back and it was in my possession so that they could remove it from the list.   I filed a claim with USPS for damages to the gun and shipping charges but was denied and exhausted all appeals.  

I will say atf in the city of the theft did a great job an kept in comm. until it was mysteriously "found" in a postal DC after a week or two.  

I think there is a 90% chance of getting it back.  A title one gun stands about a 10% chance of being returned.  I'd for sure file the claim.

The fantasy of being moved hand to hand and in a  safe all the time is just that....a fantasy.  It happens in some PO's, but not all, then it moves slow as a turtle often by private carriers.

Air tags are way too big to do much good unless your stashing it in an M2HB.  Empty boxes with air tags continue to move through the system.

[bigbore]

24 minutes ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

While it may be evidence it doesn't mean you don't get it back.  I'd call atf, make them aware and they should at some point be able to retrieve it for you and return it..  I had this happen and USPS postal inspector's could not legally return it, but they did have to surrender it to atf who returned the MG to me as the registrant.  

I did get a follow up call from the tracing center within a week confirming that I did get it back and it was in my possession so that they could remove it from the list.   I filed a claim with USPS for damages to the gun and shipping charges but was denied and exhausted all appeals.  

I will say atf in the city of the theft did a great job an kept in comm. until it was mysteriously "found" in a postal DC after a week or two.  

I think there is a 90% chance of getting it back.  A title one gun stands about a 10% chance of being returned.  I'd for sure file the claim.

The fantasy of being moved hand to hand and in a  safe all the time is just that....a fantasy.  It happens in some PO's, but not all, then it moves slow as a turtle often by private carriers.

Air tags are way too big to do much good unless your stashing it in an M2HB.  Empty boxes with air tags continue to move through the system.

I have received ZERO help from ATF, and ZERO attention from the ATF. I filed the theft/loss report on the 18th and never heard anything.    I only have a few weeks left to file the claim, so we'll see what happens in the mean time.  USPS still today will not tell me anything.   
So technically as far as the USPS is concerned they are not confirming or denying they have it at all.

Edited February 28 by bigbore

[jdmae86]

Everything I ship that is big money these days goes next day before noon with a smartag.  I put it in an envelope also with a prepaid label, so it only has to be dropped in the mailbox to return it.  I only ship on Mondays or Tuesdays because it will likely arrive the next day, and if anything happens, I have a couple of days before the weekend to get on the phone.  I sold a m240 parts kit on gb not too long ago, and it cost me over $200 to ship it with insurance, but I figure the less time the carrier has it, the more likely it is to get there in one piece.   

Edited February 28 by jdmae86

[bigbore]

3 hours ago, jdmae86 said:

Everything I ship that is big money these days goes next day before noon with a smartag.  I put it in an envelope also with a prepaid label, so it only has to be dropped in the mailbox to return it.  I only ship on Mondays or Tuesdays because it will likely arrive the next day, and if anything happens, I have a couple of days before the weekend to get on the phone.  I sold a m240 parts kit on gb not too long ago, and it cost me over $200 to ship it with insurance, but I figure the less time the carrier has it, the more likely it is to get there in one piece.   

Next Day isn't an option with USPS Registered, and you cant insure priority express mail for more than $5K.  UPS and FedEx wont ship machine guns anymore.  USPS is the only option if you want shipping insurance.

[johnsonlmg41]

The branch that handles theft/loss doesn't actually do anything other than monitor  a database.  Guns are reported, put on the list, LE agencies call for a trace and if the gun is on the list they have a record of who it belongs to and they forward that info on to that LE agency who may or may not make an effort to return it.   The lost and stolen center never sends out field agents or does anything other than keep the database of info.  

To make things happen you have to call an atf field office and start an investigation of an NFA item.  We called the field office in the last known trackable post office location and started there.  They interfaced with the postal inspectors office in a joint investigation at that location.  The whole NFA registration is a huge bonus for us in that there is a solid paper trail vs. normal guns that are everywhere without much of a paper trail to follow and the mere possession of NFA without the paperwork is it's own felony.    When you say a handgun was stolen that's all day every day, when it's a papered MG it gets a lot of attention at field offices.  

For the record fedex and ups handle MG's every day, but they do not cover losses via insurance.  At last check,  atf uses fedex.  

If they find it you will get it back at some point.  Filing the claim will hasten the process generally.

[gamebit21]

****. .GOV will not move there rear in anything. There is revenue or tax money in it. A lawyer helping you does help….

[jrh]

If you need a NFA attorney, this one was recommended.

Joshua Prince, Esquire
Prince Law Offices, P.C.
646 Lenape Rd
Bechtelsville, PA 19505
Phone (610) 845 - 3803, ext. 81175
Fax      (610) 845 - 3903
 

[bigbore]

10 hours ago, jrh said:

If you need a NFA attorney, this one was recommended.

Joshua Prince, Esquire
Prince Law Offices, P.C.
646 Lenape Rd
Bechtelsville, PA 19505
Phone (610) 845 - 3803, ext. 81175
Fax      (610) 845 - 3903
 

 

I filed the insurance claim Friday night.  Maybe that will get me some attention. I'd like to know what my options are if they pay out the claim and I get a phone call next year that they have my UZI.   

If it's part of a criminal investigation, I don't think anyone will confirm they have it.  If they wont tell a member of congress anything, there's no point in paying a lawyer to ask the same questions. 

 

[MPFiveO]

The best option would be to put the claim check into an interest bearing account and let it earn money while they hold your gun hostage.

Your only other option is to take the check and buy a replacement and move on. I'm not sure what the fate of the gun will be but it's sad to think that if a NFA item is stolen then it can't be returned to the owner. That's one less transferable gun in the pool.

[Chef]

Not only that it's one less transferable, but it sounds like one of those pre-samples that flipped to transferable, which means it's an original IMI SMG and not a conversion.
That makes it's loss or destruction that much worse.

[GUNBUGS]

IF you do file a claim with USPS, be sure to tell them you only had the gun for a week before you sold/shipped it. Otherwise, they will "depreciate" it based on how long you owned it. I know this from past experience.

[Thumpy]

On 2/28/2026 at 7:16 AM, johnsonlmg41 said:

The branch that handles theft/loss doesn't actually do anything other than monitor  a database.  Guns are reported, put on the list, LE agencies call for a trace and if the gun is on the list they have a record of who it belongs to and they forward that info on to that LE agency who may or may not make an effort to return it.   The lost and stolen center never sends out field agents or does anything other than keep the database of info.  

To make things happen you have to call an atf field office and start an investigation of an NFA item.  We called the field office in the last known trackable post office location and started there.  They interfaced with the postal inspectors office in a joint investigation at that location.  The whole NFA registration is a huge bonus for us in that there is a solid paper trail vs. normal guns that are everywhere without much of a paper trail to follow and the mere possession of NFA without the paperwork is it's own felony.    When you say a handgun was stolen that's all day every day, when it's a papered MG it gets a lot of attention at field offices.  

For the record fedex and ups handle MG's every day, but they do not cover losses via insurance.  At last check,  atf uses fedex.  

If they find it you will get it back at some point.  Filing the claim will hasten the process generally.

This 100% 

[bigbore]

3 hours ago, GUNBUGS said:

IF you do file a claim with USPS, be sure to tell them you only had the gun for a week before you sold/shipped it. Otherwise, they will "depreciate" it based on how long you owned it. I know this from past experience.

That would be a neat trick for them to claim it was made in 1974, so it has depreciated 50% from its original sale price of $400.00!

[bigbore]

On 2/28/2026 at 8:16 AM, johnsonlmg41 said:

If they find it you will get it back at some point.  Filing the claim will hasten the process generally.

The only thing filing the claim did was hasten their denial....

The reason listed online says "A letter has been sent detailing the reason"

[StrangeRanger]

GET A LAWYER

[bauerdb]

1 hour ago, bigbore said:

The only thing filing the claim did was hasten their denial....

The reason listed online says "A letter has been sent detailing the reason"

They want a written appraisal.  I think they deny everything. 

Edited March 3 by bauerdb

[donwest]

Many many years ago I had a HK registered auto sear and a HK53 end up in a federal sting aimed at the gunsmith in Ark (Seslar) that owned the sears. Gun and the sear were confiscated as evidence. I spoke to the federal prosecutor directly and he told me I cannot have any evidence but after the case I can get my property back if I can prove I am the owner. About 4 months later, after Seslar plead guilty I got the gun however, the sear was paid for but had not been transfered, so I had to forgo the sear. No big  deal as the transferable sears were going for $600 and I promptly bought another one.

Reach out directly to the Federal Prosecutor an see what he can tell you.

[challenger70rt]

With all the problems ALL the shipping services have, I’m honestly surprised more people haven’t started hand delivering this stuff. I’m a lil guy, I only have a whopping 3 transferables but if I sold ANY of them I’d either be driving or flying them to their new owners. PISS on letting the govt steal $25k+ irreplaceable guns. Plane tickets are cheap insurance.. particularly when it costs $200+ to ship this stuff registered and highly insured anyway. 

[Uncle Zeek]

1 hour ago, challenger70rt said:

With all the problems ALL the shipping services have, I’m honestly surprised more people haven’t started hand delivering this stuff. I’m a lil guy, I only have a whopping 3 transferables but if I sold ANY of them I’d either be driving or flying them to their new owners. PISS on letting the govt steal $25k+ irreplaceable guns. Plane tickets are cheap insurance.. particularly when it costs $200+ to ship this stuff registered and highly insured anyway. 

I hate to be "that guy", but have worked for airlines on the ramp for a number of years.  Can say with certainty that you have a higher chance of having your checked bag with the MG in it go missing, stolen, etc than with registered mail.  

[johnsonlmg41]

3 hours ago, bigbore said:

The only thing filing the claim did was hasten their denial....

The reason listed online says "A letter has been sent detailing the reason"

Yes, they always deny the first claim. PO SOP.  Probably the second will get denied as well....because why wouldn't they?  Additionally they have not terminated the search yet either, so that will result in a denied claim until that is exhausted.  If they have it and it's evidence you will get it back.  Just because your car gets stolen doesn't mean you don't get it back because it's evidence.  

As for an attorney, if you have a phone and can take notes, at this point there would be no benefit to that IMO..

 

[bigbore]

26 minutes ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

Yes, they always deny the first claim. PO SOP.  Probably the second will get denied as well....because why wouldn't they?  Additionally they have not terminated the search yet either, so that will result in a denied claim until that is exhausted.  If they have it and it's evidence you will get it back.  Just because your car gets stolen doesn't mean you don't get it back because it's evidence.  

As for an attorney, if you have a phone and can take notes, at this point there would be no benefit to that IMO..

 

I'm good with the appeal, and dragging it out as that extends the time I have to keep the claim process active.   I'm interested as to what excuse they make up for the initial denial.  
I'll have to refund my customer soon, which is the only immediate for sure downside right now. 

Edited March 4 by bigbore

[United Surplus Arms]

4 hours ago, Uncle Zeek said:

I hate to be "that guy", but have worked for airlines on the ramp for a number of years.  Can say with certainty that you have a higher chance of having your checked bag with the MG in it go missing, stolen, etc than with registered mail.  

absolutely this!  a checked bag on the airlines is by far the least secure and most risky option.  Not only do you have to worry about dishonest employees, but there are organized theft rings (and individuals) that steal checked luggage from the claim area.  And it can mis-connect and not make it on your flight..

If you ship it with a common carrier (USPS/UPS/FedEx), use a separate company for the insurance.

I have a friend in the jewelry business and he uses armored car service for very high dollar items ($500K plus) but that is pretty pricey.

[bigbore]

I got a copy of the letter stating why it was denied.

My sales receipt is not acceptable proof of the value.  I have to provide supported proof of value.  This should be fun.

Also, I finally got to speak to someone at the NFA branch.

The NFA Branch had no idea it was stolen, no one reported it to them.

He said the NFA branch knows nothing about it or where it is, but If it’s recovered by USPS it should be returned to me since I'm the registered owner.  

So maybe some of my unofficial sources are full of shit and it really is just.... "gone".
 

[geefal]

Having dealt with the ATF on stolen guns before, I really hate to say this, but they absolutely do not care no matter what and not even one little bit, not even a tiny little bitty mouse footprint sized bit.

 

No exaggeration, you would think they would care, but they absolutely do not. 

 

Period. 

[pinball-1]

16 hours ago, geefal said:

Having dealt with the ATF on stolen guns before, I really hate to say this, but they absolutely do not care no matter what and not even one little bit, not even a tiny little bitty mouse footprint sized bit.

 

No exaggeration, you would think they would care, but they absolutely do not. 

 

Period. 

I can second this. They don't care.

Not to get off topic but Tornado Technology "stole" dozens (maybe hundreds of guns) from customers in the last several years. Dozens of lawsuits won by customers, and the ATF won't do anything, won't even revoke his FFL or investigate, local PD won't do anything either. In fact he even moved locations and the ATF updated his FFL with the new address. I was one of the only lucky customers, that after a few calls to ATF got an agent (whom was originally local to me) and had some sympathy, he made some calls and forced the owner to send the gun back to me. No one else got as lucky from what I've seen.

I'd keep calling the ATF and see if you can get someone that is helpful and wants to take the case. Some people want to make a name for themselves, and a MG is a pretty big deal imo.

[bigbore]

I filed the appeal on Monday and included 13 pages of documents to show value. Another copy of the sales receipt in the form of a screen shot from my POS, since they didn't like the store receipt.
A copy of the 1974 form 5 along with the 2025 Form 5 and the 2026 Form 3 all listing the serial number along with a copy of the letter from NFA stating it was transferable.

**I sold 2 of these newly transferable UZI's that same week.

I sent a copy of the listing on Sturm
I sent a copy of the sales receipt from one that was delivered to Arizona along with a copy of the Registered label/tracking and insurance for the one that made it.  That buyer also did me a solid and sent a statement that he bought one of the listed UZIs off Sturm for $25K, and it was received as advertised as new with provenance.  I submitted that statement as well.

 

All that and I received an email today telling me my  appeal was denied.   I have to wait for the letter telling me what excuse they came up with this time so I can repeat the process.   

 

[MPFiveO]

So, basically they're saying, "Sorry we lost your $25K gun that you paid to have insured... Sorry."

[huggytree]

I’ve tried to claim small losses twice w usps.  Both times went no where.  I no longer pay for their insurance . It’s worthless 

as far as getting it back from the justice dept?  I’ve got a post sample that the atf took as part of a raid on a gunsmith who was repairing it.  2 years later. I finally got a letter saying -yes the gun is mine and will be returned after the case is over.  Call them? No one answers.  Leave a message? No one returns it.  I figure by the time I get it back I won’t be a sot anymore .  It’s just gone 

 

 

 

 

[KickStand]

On 3/4/2026 at 4:50 PM, bigbore said:

So maybe some of my unofficial sources are full of shit and it really is just.... "gone".
 

At this point, I also recommend contacting an attorney to obtain some help. Getting their perspective could help clarify your options and get the best course of action. Especially, since you mentioned your unofficial sources are full of sh*t. 

That being said, using an air tag is still a must (imo) and cheap insurance. If you choose to ship with an AirTag, it should be placed discreetly (hidden, if possible) and secured so it does not move or make noise during shipment (hide it in the stock, pistol grip, in the action, under the handguards or even at the bottom of a magazine). 

I have only traded two machine guns, but the possibility of an issue like this occurring, has always been a huge concern of mine.

 

Please keep us posted and good luck. 

[bigbore]

14 minutes ago, KickStand said:

At this point, I also recommend contacting an attorney to obtain some help. Getting their perspective could help clarify your options and get the best course of action. Especially, since you mentioned your unofficial sources are full of sh*t. 

I did some checking around in case I need an attorney in the future.  To sue the Post Office I'd have to hire an attorney who practiced federal law, who will charge twice as much as a regular attorney.  Until my appeals are exhausted an attorney isn't going to be any benefit.