gamebit21 Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 - Federally, there is the settlement won by rare breed. It is not the Law, and it is an AFF Ruling. It directly applies to Raw Breed and subsidiaries. It also expressly said “Rifles”, and it does not do anything for pistols and other devices. In fact, it forbids it. So there is no “Settlement” protection for anything else. -At the state level, California, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington, and Virginia, Colorado. This is 14 out of 50 and growing. Some key facts: Key Details on FRT Bans: State-Level Bans: California considers FRTs illegal "multiburst trigger activators". Virginia's code, specifically § 18.2-308.5:1, is interpreted by some as prohibiting the manufacturing, sale, and possession of FRTs. Legal Challenges: Despite state bans, federal courts have issued conflicting rulings, with some federal judges ruling that FRTs are not machine guns under the National Firearms Act (NFA) and ordering the ATF to return seized devices. Legislative Activity: States like Colorado passed legislation in 2025 targeting rapid-fire conversion devices. Context: While the ATF has attempted to classify FRTs as machine guns nationwide, recent legal settlements have limited the ATF's ability to enforce this, leading to a patchwork of state-level restrictions. . **** So how can it be possible for FRTs to keep going? My opinion just seems to be that the states will keep chipping away at it. For example, West Virginia and some places may be Redoubts and Holdouts for freedom. I mean allot comes through for who is the next president etc. Please, let’s keep on topic. I ask as a serious discussion. We all need to come together and plan for the future….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Zeek Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 I'll go ahead and say it out loud. The first time that some nut commits a high-profile mass shooting with one of these devices, Congress will amend the definition of a machinegun to include both "a single function of the trigger" and "a single pull of the trigger". I hope this doesn't happen, but given the incidence of homicidal crackpots in our country, it's bound to happen sooner or later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Uncle Zeek said: I'll go ahead and say it out loud. The first time that some nut commits a high-profile mass shooting with one of these devices, Congress will amend the definition of a machinegun to include both "a single function of the trigger" and "a single pull of the trigger". I hope this doesn't happen, but given the incidence of homicidal crackpots in our country, it's bound to happen sooner or later. I can't disagree with you. But the various versions and manufacturers have flooded the gun community with tens of thousands of these things. There is the "common use" thing that will be argued in court if/when a ban happens. Many states already ban them. I was not going to get one till one day at the guns store I was introduced to the Atrius version. It was relatively cheap so I bought it. I won't be out much when I have to destroy it. This is going to interesting to watch going forward. Edited February 25 by The Dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPFiveO Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 I don't know if the common use test would be applicable to a firearm accessory like the FRT. Even if it is, that's not going to stop a ban on them from passing after the next tragedy. I already mentioned in another post that Alabama made it illegal to possess a Glock switch even though they're already federally regulated, you know, like drugs... MS appears to be following in those exact footsteps of introducing legislation on Glock switches. The Alabama law was passed after a shooting where the suspect used a switch equipped Glock. See how that works? Several states already have bans with broad coverage of trigger devices that covers cranks, springs, stocks and anything that can increase the rate of fire and that will include FRT's. Since numerous states already have legislation in place it's a simple "copy and paste" for those that don't. One thing you don't hear about much is how well this is enforced in those states. But like Uncle Zeek alluded to, one incident and the hammer will come down. If it comes down on the federal level then it's game over. I'm just not sure how the courts will view an accessory like this, I don't know if it will qualify for 2A protection. There are reasons the Hughes Amendment has not been successfully challenged in the 40 years it's been around. Most of the 2A community believes it's unconstitutional, including myself, but the government doesn't want common people to have them. I'm just disappointed it took almost 40 years to develop a rapid fire accessory that doesn't suck and works as advertised. I remember all the junk and disappointment from the crap peddled in the 80's and 90's. Yeah Lenny, I'm talking about you! LoL. Enjoy it while it lasts guys. We're only here for a short time. The government will be here forever. They'll use all our money to fight us into submission. Below is a link to the Rare Breed map of states their FRT is supposedly legal in. While they claim their FRT is legal in Vermont the internet AI claims they are not legal there. I chose that state because I have a buddy there. So, if you're thinking about getting one I'd research the state law on them rather that taking RB's word. They won't be supplying you with an attorney. https://rarebreedfrttrigger.us.com/is-the-rare-breed-frt-legal-in-your-state-2025-state-by-state-guide/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourfiftyfourcasull Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 The original FRT lol 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 "We all need to come together and plan for the future"... My plan regarding these is to avoid them. I intend to keep (not sell) my transferable machineguns and enjoy them and not mess around with loophole gadgets and hosts, the same way I avoided bump stocks and "braces". If I want a MG, I'll buy one and if I want a SBR, I'll register one. Stay on the right side of the law would be my advice regarding any of these devices. They were all designed to circumvent the "intent" of federal law, and as we all should know, "intent" is what the feds focus on. In the past, I've always took the position that if you're not handicapped and have a documented severe case of carpel tunnel (or other wrist/hand injury), then you probably should just register your "braced pistol" as a SBR and avoid trouble in the future. Same goes for these FRT/SS devices. If you're lucky, when (not if, but WHEN) they get banned on a federal level, if you accidentally "forget" about one in a box somewhere in your closet, you'll be in for a world of hurt if the feds happen to find it. I seriously doubt that when the ban comes, there will be an "amnesty" for them. A period where you can have them engraved and serial numbered and registered as a MG (or another classification). I believe it will be "turn in or destroy" and after a certain date, anyone found with one will be subject to the same penalties as if they had an unregistered MG. I do not believe that any "common usage" loophole will successfully be applied to them. And if nothing happens (mass shooting involving one) in the next three years, you can bet your ass the next administration will have already had legislation written up and ready to be put into law as soon as they are in office. (assuming they will be a democrat, which I fully believe they will be) Play with them if you must, but just be aware you're playing with fire. Ask the kid who holds a firecracker and lights it and the fuse burns quicker than he expected and he loses a thumb and finger, if playing with firecrackers was worth it. But hey, y'all do you. Be "ungovernable" if that's the hill you want to die on. Makes no difference to me. I for one will stick to my federally registered MGs and SBRs and not think I am somehow smarter than the government and am going to be somehow immune from repercussions. That's "sovereign citizen" territory, and we all know just how well that flies with the police and government. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tyson Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 You guys remember the Atkins Accelerator? That was the original bump stock. I think something will come of all of it. Its too good right now with the FRT and Braces and "Other" guns. It will be hard to wrangle all of them back up. Pay cash! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Well...... yes, I played with firecrackers. Still do once in a while. We developed a technique where you could hold them between your fingers and light them off and still retain your digits. Mind you this was before the jackass guys were born. Bare fingers, no earplugs, eye protection, or fire suit, etc. I'm kind of a science nerd. I'll hedge my bets on occasion, worst case the trigger ends up in a transferable at some point with a bump stock on it? For the record, I do assume they will go away at some point. Also for the record, I called out the Akins as being illegal before the beta testers even got them and got skewered for that opinion. The same relative design is in the binary triggers, but since those started with trap shooters it seems to get overlooked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 That's a nice looking M16 you got there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 On 2/24/2026 at 8:17 PM, Uncle Zeek said: I'll go ahead and say it out loud. The first time that some nut commits a high-profile mass shooting with one of these devices, Congress will amend the definition of a machinegun to include both "a single function of the trigger" and "a single pull of the trigger". I hope this doesn't happen, but given the incidence of homicidal crackpots in our country, it's bound to happen sooner or later. Word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 (edited) I decided to sell my m16a2 recently over fears that it could effect the nfa market on them. Decided to cash out while it’s at its peak value. I Also agree that frt’s will be banned after the first mass shooting with one. There’s limited gun ranges that allow them in my area so their use is somewhat limited. The bigger fry’s get the faster they will be banned I just grabbed a frt to play with. Haven’t been to the range yet with it. But in dryfire I find it pretty amazing. 90%+ of the feel for 1/100th the price I only fear future bans could affect the nfa too. We kinda survive because most people don’t know we exist. Edited February 27 by huggytree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 (edited) The Feds may just let the States regulate these out of existence. The bumpstock was used in a mass shooting (Las Vegas) and they tried to outlaw it but it failed. Many states outlaw them as well as FRTs. I believe these will be legislatively made obsolete eventually one way or another. My range here in Oklahoma forbids bumpstocks or any device that simulates fullauto but registered full auto is allowed. It is going to be interesting to see how this all pans out! Edited February 27 by The Dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 List of places FRT’s are no go CA, CT, CO (Boulder County and Broomfield), DE, FL, HI, IL, MA, MD, MN, NJ, NY, OR, RI, VT, WA, Washington DC, Puerto Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank I Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 8 hours ago, Thumpy said: List of places FRT’s are no go CA, CT, CO (Boulder County and Broomfield), DE, FL, HI, IL, MA, MD, MN, NJ, NY, OR, RI, VT, WA, Washington DC, Puerto Rico PA missed banning them, and shotguns with barrels under 18", by one vote, this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 I personally believe the flood gates have been opened. I don’t think banning them is going to stop people from buying selling using etc there is just to many of these already floating around. these companies making them are making and selling thousands of them. Things like these used to really only be real gun guys in the know with them… now it seems like everyone knows and owns frt’s…. A buddy of mine down in Texas was at a range shooting yesterday he said there was at least 5-6 people letting FRT’s rip while he was there. I know many of the older folks here keep saying “ well some day they will get banned” and my thinking is if that’s the attitude then some day our transferrables will be banned as well… I believe the more of these trigger out the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamebit21 Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 One bing I do know for sure is Obama interfered with the NFA and everything. Among many other things, he attempted to freeze transferable where they were. Basically transferable would just stay with their owners until their death, etc. The .GOV People are always finding ways against to take our rights. Yes, mass prosecution of guns, frts,, magazines, and parts. One thing we need to do is stick together.. The answer is to grow our numbers, friends, and allies. It is sad to say though that USA Success has hurt us in one way. The common man is to far removed from wars, drafts, and hard times. The average person is checking their social media sitting in traffic. It will be an uphill mountain battle yes. It is winnable though…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPFiveO Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Just learned that Rare Breed had released a HK trigger pack in both SEF and Ambi configuration. Not cheap, but retains the original housing and look. What's that worth to you? https://rarebreedtriggers.com/product-category/triggers/ I know lots of folks have their opinions of Rare Breed and how things went down with the ATF and all the lawsuits that followed. But ask yourself where we'd be if they hadn't fought back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 39 minutes ago, MPFiveO said: Just learned that Rare Breed had released a HK trigger pack in both SEF and Ambi configuration. Not cheap, but retains the original housing and look. What's that worth to you? https://rarebreedtriggers.com/product-category/triggers/ I know lots of folks have their opinions of Rare Breed and how things went down with the ATF and all the lawsuits that followed. But ask yourself where we'd be if they hadn't fought back... $615 sure beats $50,000 for a sear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 I got one of the HK triggers with the first release and let’s just say that it’s an entire play on words….call it what you will, but these things are MG’s but living behind a different definition 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPFiveO Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Got Uzi said: call it what you will, but these things are MG’s but living behind a different definition And that is the most important thing. They don't fit the definition that congress wrote for defining a machine gun. While they reset the trigger "automatically" and allow the user to just maintain pressure on the trigger to continue firing, just like a machine gun, the trigger is reset for each shot so each shot is a single function of the trigger. So, by the definition, they aren't machine guns, but for those that understand firearm mechanics they took the bypass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Correct by the “definition” they are not MG’s but by the cyclic rate and firearm function, they are MG conversion devices. All it would take is a change to the definition and the whole ballgame is over (which I can see happening at some point soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPFiveO Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Like I've said before, we are living in interesting times. The current tumultuous roller coaster ride we're on right now is dizzying. We just had a big win with the burdensome $200 tax being removed from suppressors and short arms, Rare Breed won their case against the ATF, a couple of states have introduced legislation to allow citizens to purchase and posses post 1986 machine guns, and then... There are states that are still trying to actively disarm their citizens and there's a letter in writing from the ATF saying they want to limit the number of devices like FRT's... They won't stop. There's a line between freedom and tyranny, and that line has recently pushed tyranny into a corner. What remains to be seen is whether or not it will die there or come out with a vengeance. I remember all too well how heavy handed the government was through the 90's. One would be extremely naive to believe that this will be the final victory to put them on their heels for good. Part of me wants to believe that FRT's are the key to making arguments for more freedom, but another part of me is thinking that they might be the key to Pandora's box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 I have said it before, my fear is its going to be Pandora's box and we wont be able to come back from it when it all goes south. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 5 hours ago, Got Uzi said: Edited March 4 by Thumpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 10 hours ago, Got Uzi said: I got one of the HK triggers with the first release and let’s just say that it’s an entire play on words….call it what you will, but these things are MG’s but living behind a different definition Goofiest take ever made… by function and definition they are infact not a mg. They do no different the mimic Bumpfire just in a different manner. do you believe all semi autos are MG’s if I can Bumpfire them with out any bump stock or frt? I just hold my finger stiff and pull the gun forward? Edited March 4 by Thumpy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaRenegade86 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 12 hours ago, Got Uzi said: I got one of the HK triggers with the first release and let’s just say that it’s an entire play on words….call it what you will, but these things are MG’s but living behind a different definition I said this on the other FRT thread and my sentiment remains unchanged. "Final thought.....for a knowledgeable person to say a Forced Reset Trigger is functionally the same thing as a fully automatic weapon is disingenuous at best. I seriously question the motives of one who makes such a statement." In regard to FRTs, the genie is already out of the bottle. I don't think he's going back inside. Edited March 4 by MontanaRenegade86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 No I don’t all semi auto’s as MG’s if you can “bump fire” an unmodified gun. The fact that I can mash the trigger on this FRT unit and it empties a 30 round magazine with no issues….AND you can control the gun. My worry is now that these are coming out in mass, that we will see the entire country go the way of Virginia when, not if the Dem’s get back in office and don’t tell me “it can’t happen” because…well…look at Virginia. Here’s proof of that: https://youtu.be/OZDek-DBZp0?si=LWKMJOaCIXi8punZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.