Problem with a gun bought here on Sturm for a Class 3 item

[Clear]

Asked about an issue with a seller here and it was suggested I post here.

I bought a M11/9 off of Sturm on October 6th of last year.  Gun was received by my SOT December 11th and I picked it up December 19th.  Holidays and January were busy for me.  Got to the range February 8th. and I could not even get a mag all the way into the magwell of said M11/9.  I have two other M11’s and tried the same mag in the other two and they went in just fine.
I got home from the range and immediately messaged the seller here on Sturm about the problem with the gun.  His response was, “Can you send me a video of the mags getting stuck. As I said I only used the gun with the max upper and fleming 22lr upper, which I said could use some work.”  I told him I sure can send him a video showing him what I experienced.  Also I went through all of our communications here on Sturm (the only way we have had any contact) and at NO time did he say anything about issues with the gun.

I made and sent him the video.  His response was, “Thanks for the video. Have you tried sten mags with the lower, some of the m11/9 were converted to take those. Also what happened to the receiver in your video, it looks like someone dremeled it. It wasn't like that when I shipped it. I have pictures from before I shipped it.””  I told him no one has done anything to this gun on my end ever.  They are welds that are either original or have been there a long long time.  
My response to him way, “There has been zero done to the receiver.  It is a reflection as I thought the same thing.  I took it to the range that one day and was unable to do anything with it,  I am not going to try Sten mags as one, I don't have any and two, I did not buy an unadvertised Sten conversion.  This was advertised as an M11, not a M11 conversion.  This lower is not what was advertised.  It needs to come back your way and made right.”

This chain of IM’s (there are more, buy a rehash of the same things) I can post them here if anyone feels it’s relevant.  His last response was about three hours ago and said, “Practical solutions will fix the magwell for $85, also you did none of the things I ask for. https://macmachineguns.com/gunsmithing-services/.  You got the gun at a decent deal and it's a easy fix, so i'm gonna have to deny giving you a full refund. Send the gun to practical solutions and when it's fixed send me the receipt and I'll pay for the repair.”  My response to him was, “I am not going to take a hack job gun because you failed to disclose it.  It is not about getting a decent deal, it is getting what I paid for.  You can deny all you want, but this is on you, not me.  This your lemon you mislead me on.”
 

All of my M11/9's are not modified.  If they were I would have passed on them.  Personal preference.    You guys are versed in the Class 3 arena.  Just want what I paid for and this was not as advertised.  What do you guys think?

 

Edited @ 1603 for a spelling error.

Edited February 17 by Clear

[eMGunslinger]

Practical Solutions does good work and this isn't that big of an issue especially if he's offering to cover it. Its a M11/9 not a Colt Maxim the guns are expensive shit anyway. The backplates break off and need welding, the feed ramps have problems, pins get egged out. Send it to get fixed and be glad he's offering anything. I've dealt with thousands of machine guns and most of the time stuff is sold as is or you get ghosted as soon as they ship it.

[smdub]

I'm w/ eMGunslinger.  Many Macs are crooked and none of them are the same.  I have all three versions and they are just poorly built.  There may be mags that fit it but yours don't.  Sam @ PS is top notch.  Send it to him to have the magwell corrected and let the original seller cover it.  Its a common and minor problem.

Edited February 17 by smdub

[Bwana]

A free opinion - Seller may have honestly not known?  Either way, see if they'll cover shipping both ways, inspection and repairs (including refinish).  With a little cooperation from the Seller, and a little patience on your side, you should be able to end up with a perfect condition gun. Maybe get it refinished to match Lage uppers (assuming Sten magwell gets corrected to OEM specs and refinish is required).  Good luck with it.  Make the best of it and enjoy it!

[Clear]

1 hour ago, eMGunslinger said:

Practical Solutions does good work and this isn't that big of an issue especially if he's offering to cover it. Its a M11/9 not a Colt Maxim the guns are expensive shit anyway. The backplates break off and need welding, the feed ramps have problems, pins get egged out. Send it to get fixed and be glad he's offering anything. I've dealt with thousands of machine guns and most of the time stuff is sold as is or you get ghosted as soon as they ship it.

Fair enough.  I'm glad I asked.  I still feel I am right.  But I did not post this to be right.  I posted this for input and I am going to listen to it.  Thanks guys.

[KickStand]

Seems like the dealer is making it right; especially, for something bought 4 (+) months ago.

Also, You own two Macs (apparently, the same variant) and bought a third, the mag well should’ve stuck out like a sore thumb. 
 

Personally, I’d take him up on his offer and tell him thanks for getting it squared away for you. 
 

JMO

[woodenword]

Practical Solutions charges $475 to un-Sten. If you decide to do that, be sure the dealer agrees to the real price, as advertised on their website.

[MPFiveO]

Check the serial number before you have it "corrected" because SWD made some factory Sten mag guns way back before it became popular to convert them to use Sten mags. If you still want it to use your factory M11 mags then the solution has been offered. It will come back with a M11 mag well and it won't cost you a dime, just some time and the feeling of an inconvenience.

You're not wrong for feeling the way you do. It wasn't advertised correctly. But, as already stated, it's an M11 so it's easy to fix.

I've had several M11's over the years. Most ran fine. But I have a consecutive serial number pair that can't swap uppers. One has the front pin at a slight angle making it very difficult to fit another upper to it. The ones made in 1986 were being cranked out as fast as possible to beat the May 19 deadline.

I have another one that was made in 1984. It's obvious to even untrained eyes that it looks to be a better built gun than those from 1986.

[45pulse]

If its actually a Sten magwell  it will be a lot more than 85.00 to convert….seller was probably confused about “stretching” the magwell as thats advertised as 85.00. This just covers standard tight m11 wells. Id clarify the issue with the seller to make sure he will cover the cost to deconvert the sten mag as well as shipping.

[johnsonlmg41]

IMO if it is a sten mag setup I'd put a higher value on it than a standard M11.  Mags are cheap, sturdy, often good quality,  and everywhere.  M11 mags not so much.  Then there's the Lanchester advantage.  

Most every MG on the market comes with one mag as a standard industry practice... oddly that would have saved you a lot of headache.  

[class2mfg]

send to Sam @ Practical Solutions.  He is awesome and fixed one for me a few months back.

[Double Tap Firearms]

I had a M11 a while ago that needed a Magwell stretch. Some Zytel mags fit it and some would not. Did you receive any magazines with the gun for the 9mm?

[Mark2]

On 2/18/2026 at 8:00 AM, MPFiveO said:

Check the serial number before you have it "corrected" because SWD made some factory Sten mag guns way back before it became popular to convert them to use Sten mags. If you still want it to use your factory M11 mags then the solution has been offered. It will come back with a M11 mag well and it won't cost you a dime, just some time and the feeling of an inconvenience.

You're not wrong for feeling the way you do. It wasn't advertised correctly. But, as already stated, it's an M11 so it's easy to fix.

I've had several M11's over the years. Most ran fine. But I have a consecutive serial number pair that can't swap uppers. One has the front pin at a slight angle making it very difficult to fit another upper to it. The ones made in 1986 were being cranked out as fast as possible to beat the May 19 deadline.

I have another one that was made in 1984. It's obvious to even untrained eyes that it looks to be a better built gun than those from 1986.

How does the serial number specify that the SWD Factory Manufactured a particular Mac with a Sten Magazine Well? 

[Frank I]

As I recall, (technically) once you take physical possession of an NFA MG, you cannot return it without paying another $200.00 tax.

Once on a form 4, there is a tax due even to a dealer.

This may have changed ? 

[MPFiveO]

17 hours ago, Mark2 said:

How does the serial number specify that the SWD Factory Manufactured a particular Mac with a Sten Magazine Well? 

So, apparently my age is causing some confusion. I know a lot but I've forgotten a lot too. I'm not too proud to admit a mistake or reach out for help. I consulted a very knowledgeable friend and he was able to clear it up. Some M11's were made in 1983 and they used Sten magazines. However, those were semi auto only. So the machine guns have always used the M11 magazines particular to them.

I would consider acquiring a Sten magazine and try it out. If that works then you'd only need to acquire some Sten mags to run it. New springs can be purchased and feed lips massaged to make them pretty darn reliable. As mentioned, Lanchester magazines hold fifty rounds. That would be fun!

Otherwise, just send it out to have the magazine well swapped back and you'll have a factory spec M11.  I believe this course of action would be a lot simpler than returning the gun and finding another one. That would be a whole lot more frustrating and time consuming. And the seller said they would make it right so there's that.

I've always hated sending NFA out for repair because it's just stressful. Years ago I sent my MP5 to Vollmer for an upgrade. When it finally came back it was gorgeous. Same with a HK 93 I sent to Vollmer to be converted to a 53. The wait was excruciating. Then I sent a FN FNC and sear to Curtis Higgins at S&H for installation. Again, it came back just absolutely beautiful. It's stressful waiting for your investment to come back looking better than ever, but in the end it's well worth it.

If you want to try a Sten magazine just let me know. I have a pile of them.

[hkg3k]

18 hours ago, MPFiveO said:

So, apparently my age is causing some confusion. I know a lot but I've forgotten a lot too. I'm not too proud to admit a mistake or reach out for help. I consulted a very knowledgeable friend and he was able to clear it up. Some M11's were made in 1983 and they used Sten magazines. However, those were semi auto only. So the machine guns have always used the M11 magazines particular to them.

This is correct...there were no factory STEN magwell full auto M11/9s, only early semi guns (per "The MAC Man" pg 328).

A STEN magwell will swallow a M11/9 magazine.  A STEN mag is larger both front to back and side to side.  I confirmed this with one of my M11/9s with aftermarket STEN magwell.  Conversely, a STEN mag will come nowhere close to insertion into a factory full auto M11/9 magwell.

My question to the buyer would be which magazine did he try?  There's several different magazines made for / or altered to fit the M11/9.

I recall when the ShockWave ZMags first came out, a few folks had issues getting those mags to insert into their guns.  The blame was initially placed on ZMags for being slightly out of spec.  I think what everyone eventually figured out, it was simple variation of the magwells from the factory...and the reason that Practical Solutions added magwell "stretching" to their list of services to accommodate those guns.

IMO, if the gun has a tight, factory, magwell (can a factory Zytel mag be inserted into the gun?), the seller really has no liability in this issue as it's a (known) factory issue and not a problem the seller was responsible for.  If he's offering to pay for the magwell "adjustment," then he's going above and beyond to make the buyer happy.

[Clear]

I guess I should follow up on this thread.

After the advice given in some of the first posts in this thread, I sent the seller (not a dealer) this, "While I don't agree, if you are willing to cover the costs of making this right with Sam at PS, it is in the best interest of both of us to handle it the way you are proposing."  I never heard anything back.  I sent this the same day you guys recommended a way to respond.  That was 8 days ago.  Crickets.  He even asked me to send a video of the gun, which I did, and that opened up another excuse section for him.

Regardless the seller said he would pay for me to send the gun to PS and make it right.  My issue with this whole thing is, I was under the impression in the small MG community, buyers had a strict expectation to get what the seller was posting for sale.  I expected to get a M11/9, not a M11/9 Sten.  Throughout my back and forth with the seller in SG IM's, I was very adamant about getting what I paid for.  The seller just blew it off and made claims about his description that were completely false.  I am fairly wound up about this, but calmed down a lot after the responses where you guys advised me to just work with the seller on the fix. 

I don't need the money, I just want the gun I bought.  He said he called PS and they said the fix was $85.  I was pleasantly surprised and called PS to find out how to send my M11/9 to them.  That's when they said it would end up being more like $800 to get it fix the way it should be and the gun would be with them for 4-6 months.  *GASP*  I don't know if the seller found out the quote he thought he got was not $85 and decided not to follow through on what he said he was going to do.

@KickStand - There was no way to tell from the pictures that were posted.  Even then I am not a M11/9 aficionado, so I am not sure I would have known what I was looking for, hence why I way relying (which I think is very fair) on the sellers description of what they were selling.

@johnsonlmg41 - want a m11/9 that uses a mag other than a Zmag for a really good deal?  Totally serious.

Anyways guys, I appreciate the constructive conversation we have had here.  Looks like he left me with the big green weenie of a machinegun.  A little pissed.

Edited February 25 by Clear

[bauerdb]

Not surprising that he chose the pound sand approach when you posted this.  

[johnsonlmg41]

PM me with your proposition.  I'm down to my last 6 Macs, so I can't say another one wouldn't be welcome in the stable after the sellers remorse of parting with a couple?  All MG's are welcome here!  We would take in a turd if it had a form 4........no diarrhea though.

[Mark2]

Make sure to leave the seller appropriate transaction feedback in the general firearms forum, in case he try's to slip someone else a rusty musket here. 

[hkg3k]

On 2/25/2026 at 3:23 PM, Clear said:

  I expected to get a M11/9, not a M11/9 Sten. 

Did you ever confirm you actually received a STEN-converted M11/9?  Maybe I missed it...but, I didn't see where you confirmed one way or the other.  Maybe post a couple pics?

[huggytree]

I’d say 33% of the nfa guns I’ve bought have issues. Some won’t run at all. Some needed minor tweaks. Some are ammo fussy.  I actually gave up begging sellers to fix them.  I just send them off and eat the repair.  Every single gun I bought was advertised as running.  Every seller swears they are perfect.  Now that I’m a sot and buy samples/ rewelds the issue is even worse!  
 

it’s a Mac.  Send it to Sam and get it fixed. Who cares if it’s a couple hundred. Life is short. It’s not a $50,000 Colt Thompson original finish.  It’s a Mac.  Nothing you can do to it will hurt its resale value 

It’s a rich man’s hobby   A few hundred won’t break you   If you keep buying nfa you’ll have more experiences like this 

If you’re looking for guarantees you can buy from the bigger dealers that charge 15% over market.  They will accept returns. I’ve gotten bad guns from them too .  
 

you can pay $800 to fix yours.  Or pay $1500 extra to the big dealers for a better guarantee 

 

 

Edited February 27 by huggytree

[JoshNC]

On 2/26/2026 at 9:08 PM, huggytree said:

I’d say 33% of the nfa guns I’ve bought have issues. Some won’t run at all. Some needed minor tweaks. Some are ammo fussy.  I actually gave up begging sellers to fix them.  I just send them off and eat the repair.  Every single gun I bought was advertised as running.  Every seller swears they are perfect.  Now that I’m a sot and buy samples/ rewelds the issue is even worse!  
 

it’s a Mac.  Send it to Sam and get it fixed. Who cares if it’s a couple hundred. Life is short. It’s not a $50,000 Colt Thompson original finish.  It’s a Mac.  Nothing you can do to it will hurt its resale value 

It’s a rich man’s hobby   A few hundred won’t break you   If you keep buying nfa you’ll have more experiences like this 

If you’re looking for guarantees you can buy from the bigger dealers that charge 15% over market.  They will accept returns. I’ve gotten bad guns from them too .  
 

you can pay $800 to fix yours.  Or pay $1500 extra to the big dealers for a better guarantee 

 

 

I completely agree. If the seller had no idea and the buyer had no idea, I’d put both parties at fault. Split the cost and drive on. 
 

I assume This is the gun in question. It’s too bad the photos are no longer up. If that’s the gun, it was a deal. The seller was using a Lage Suomi upper so he likely had no idea the magwell on the lower was a sten. 

Edited March 1 by JoshNC

[Chef]

4 hours ago, JoshNC said:

I completely agree. If the seller had no idea and the buyer had no idea, I’d put both parties at fault. Split the cost and drive on. 
 

I assume This is the gun in question. It’s too bad the photos are no longer up. If that’s the gun, it was a deal. The seller was using a Lage Suomi upper so he likely had no idea the magwell on the lower was a sten. 

Wow!
If this is the ad the gun was bought from, it reads like a new guy decided to jump into the NFA world and is rather young and used to buying stuff from stores with very generous return policies.

[MPFiveO]

That whole thread looked like a train wreck. Regardless, the NFA pool is full of hack job guns. Buyer beware should be extremely emphasized with transferable machine guns. The number of knowledgeable people in this area dwindle as time goes on because all the guys that built this stuff have passed away or moved on. You pretty much have to know what you're looking at and if you don't then you need to find someone who does. I've got a couple of guys who call on me regularly to look things over for them prior to making a purchase.

[huggytree]

That pkg is way under market with the extras. Maybe $2500-3000?

who cares if $800 is needed to make it right. 

 

 

[JoshNC]

3 hours ago, huggytree said:

That pkg is way under market with the extras. Maybe $2500-3000?

who cares if $800 is needed to make it right. 

 

 

My thoughts exactly. The buyer didn’t really understand what he was buying and the seller didn’t really know what he was selling, especially since he seemed to shoot it with a Lage Suomi upper. I’d call it a no fault transaction. And I’d be willing to bet the photos showed it was a Sten mag conversion.@Clear do you still have photos from the listing?

[Clear]

I do not.  But this has been solved.  Not by the seller, but by another member on the board.  He hit me up right after posting and asked about buying it from me.  Sold it to him.  Good dude.  I am walking away from this with a different perspective of NFA.  @huggytree This is my 4th M11/9 and I have Colt M16's as well.  @JoshNC At this point, I think you summed it up to it's a no-fault transaction.  I am not sure if he knew is was an altered lower and I have no idea how to tell the difference between a stock M11/9 and a converted one.  I assumed people in the NFA realm were a little more precise about what they were selling.  As with my second post said, I still feel I am right, but I am going to follow the recommendation of the board.

I'm glad I posted this, as it has been a constructive conversation, not a "fuck that guy" or "you're a dick" one.  Guys on here are way more mature than other boards.  Note to self.  Thank you.

[JoshNC]

3 hours ago, Clear said:

I do not.  But this has been solved.  Not by the seller, but by another member on the board.  He hit me up right after posting and asked about buying it from me.  Sold it to him.  Good dude.  I am walking away from this with a different perspective of NFA.  @huggytree This is my 4th M11/9 and I have Colt M16's as well.  @JoshNC At this point, I think you summed it up to it's a no-fault transaction.  I am not sure if he knew is was an altered lower and I have no idea how to tell the difference between a stock M11/9 and a converted one.  I assumed people in the NFA realm were a little more precise about what they were selling.  As with my second post said, I still feel I am right, but I am going to follow the recommendation of the board.

I'm glad I posted this, as it has been a constructive conversation, not a "fuck that guy" or "you're a dick" one.  Guys on here are way more mature than other boards.  Note to self.  Thank you.

Good news, glad to hear it worked out in the end. 

[MPFiveO]

I've seen a lot of listings over the years that were incorrect. What's bothersome is some of those listings were made by well known dealers who should know better.

There's another thread that details another issue with NFA, particularly machine guns, and that's with fakes. It's been 40 years since the registry was closed to individuals, aka citizens. In that time there's been a lot of shenanigans pulled. I've seen countless guns that were obviously replacements and not very good ones. There's no way of knowing when it was done and you'd never get anyone to admit to it because eventually the trail would grow cold because a large number of previous owners are now deceased. The thing is, no one wants to be the one holding the gun when it's discovered that it's not the original. Good luck getting your money back from the dealer or individual you bought it from. Just because it's registered doesn't mean that the paperwork gives one artistic license.

[Chef]

The NFA community has probably the most narrow vision of any community I participate in.

The details that are the most important to practically every other firearm community, like original finish, matching numbers, etc seem to be irrelevant to most of the people selling (or buying) machineguns.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen MGs like MP40, STG43 and even Thompsons be listed without mentioning these crucial details.
The only thing that seems to matter is "it shoots full auto".

Most of the guys with conversions don't even tell you who did the conversion, and some don't even know! You should never have to ask the seller of a converted IMI UZI if it's had it's blocking bar removed, if the bolt is the registered part or who did the conversion. That info should be clearly stated in the ad and with pics to back it up.

On other forums, a guy with a Luger pistol he's selling for $1000 will take closeup, high res pics of every numbered part, showing every marking. But here, a guy selling a MP40 for $30k will say "MP40, ww2 German burpgun" with one pic taken on a 1 mega pixel phone from 2001!

It's absolutely insane.

[Uncle Zeek]

7 hours ago, Chef said:

Most of the guys with conversions don't even tell you who did the conversion, and some don't even know! You should never have to ask the seller of a converted IMI UZI if it's had it's blocking bar removed, if the bolt is the registered part or who did the conversion. That info should be clearly stated in the ad and with pics to back it up.

Well, as more machineguns go to the auction houses, we'll see more of that.  When they're selling an estate collection, the family of the deceased owner may not know this information, and even if the owner had records, they may not know where to locate the records.  Poulin, Morphys, etc may or may not make much effort to identify such things either, so the bidders get to own a mystery conversion Uzi (or whatever other MG).

I had one like this last fall.  There was no maker listed for the Uzi by the auction house, nor on the form 3.  When I got the gun, I found the name engraved under the front handguard and disclosed this to my buyer.  But not all the conversions were correctly engraved, or the person who did it was a garage shop form 1 and nobody knows who he was.  

[JoshNC]

On 3/5/2026 at 10:22 PM, MPFiveO said:

I've seen a lot of listings over the years that were incorrect. What's bothersome is some of those listings were made by well known dealers who should know better.

There's another thread that details another issue with NFA, particularly machine guns, and that's with fakes. It's been 40 years since the registry was closed to individuals, aka citizens. In that time there's been a lot of shenanigans pulled. I've seen countless guns that were obviously replacements and not very good ones. There's no way of knowing when it was done and you'd never get anyone to admit to it because eventually the trail would grow cold because a large number of previous owners are now deceased. The thing is, no one wants to be the one holding the gun when it's discovered that it's not the original. Good luck getting your money back from the dealer or individual you bought it from. Just because it's registered doesn't mean that the paperwork gives one artistic license.

yep. There have been a large number of “factory” Colt m16s sold at a significant premium by a few very well regarded dealers and the guns are absolutely not in their factory configuration. Also plenty of obfuscation of RR HKs purposely not showing if it’s a pushpin or shelf RR. 

[MPFiveO]

Somewhere out there is a H-R Arms Co US Rifle 9mm made from a 90's Colt 9mm Sporter. The receiver has obviously been remarked and the markings bear no resemblance to any H&R ever made. Anyone that has studied and collected AR's could easily spot all of the Colt traits.

There's also a Sendra made from very recent A2 forging,  Sendra never made any receivers from A2 forgings as they went out of business long before those existed.

There's a couple of 9mm AK's out there made from .22 AK rifles. Never mind that the original receiver could not possibly work for the conversion and that when the markings were transferred to the new receiver they engraved right over the rivets...

There are more. I fully expect to see the broken Essential Arms lowers back on the market in the next few years in some new configuration. It would be impossible to find a blank receiver casting that matches the EA receiver and the fact that all the markings on them except for the serial number are embossed, raised letters.

There's a lot of money to be made in the business of dealing in machine guns. This has attracted a lot of nefarious characters.  None of this would exist had it not been for the Hughes Amendment closing the registry.