ISO Advice On Selling My Transferable.

[Blake R.]

I'm looking to hear advice from some of you in the know on the subject of selling my transferable smg.

My greatest concern are as follows:

1. What are the best ways to ensure legitimate/non-revocable payment from the buyer?

2. How can I ensure my legitimacy to the buyer?

3. When do I begin the transfer from my Form 4 to the dealer Form 3. (Assuming buyer is out of state)?

4. Is it risky to do a direct Form 4 transfer to another individual in state?

I'm considering the sell of my only transferable (Most recent version of the Stemple STG U45/U9SF package by BRP Corp). I purchased new 2 years ago and considering selling. -Thank you in advance for any expertise some of you may be able to provide.

[Chef]

First and best advice when selling a high dollar item is to trust your gut.
If a potential buyer seems shady, call it off. Same goes for sellers.

Most people in the NFA world have been buying and selling for awhile, and most of us are trustworthy.
It's the new people that usually end up having issues and creating problems. Usually due to lack of trust and lack of urgency.

To address your points one by one,.

Question #1
As far as payment, Zelle is irrevocable as a payment method, but scammers use it a lot, and having been scammed a couple of times, someone asking for it as a payment method is a red flag to me and I will exit the deal if they do. 
But even asking for a "non-revocable" payment is a red flag because to me, it says that you are selling something defective, and you don't stand behind your sale.
Personally, I've always asked for and sent out a cashiers check for high dollar items.
Most of us here sell and buy in good faith. We sell what we would expect to receive, and considering how many high dollar items get traded here weekly, for decades, the percentage of deals that have gone bad is tiny, and if people don't handle conflicts in an acceptable, honorable way, they get a bad reputation, and trust me, we all have long memories for shady people!

Question #2:
The only way to assure your legitimacy to a buyer is if you were a long time, active participant here and have done deals with people before. But without that, you can suggest facetiming a prospective seller. When on facetime, you can show the buyer the item. You should also have a video of it shooting to prove that it functions as it should.

Question #3:
You can begin the transfer at two different times, depending on your level of trust in the buyer.
First would be as soon as you receive the payment. Second would be as soon as the payment clears the bank.
If I were selling to an unknown buyer, a "civilian" (for lack of a better word) who didn't have an SOT, I'd be more cautious and wait for the check to clear. If the buyer were one of the well known members here, I'd start the transfer as soon as the check arrived.
Being quick to pay, submit the transfer, ship when it's completed and communicating every step of the way is very important in ensuring a smooth transaction.

Question #4
Doing a form 4 transfer to a buyer in the same state is one of the least riskiest sales, IMO.
The potential buyer can meet you at the range and test the gun.
You will get to see them in person and get a "vibe" from them.
You can submit the transfer paperwork with a small cash deposit and they can come and pick it up in person when the transfer is complete and pay the remainder in cash.


Some other things to consider:
Some people have had contracts made up for the buyer and seller to sign, outlying the conditions of the sale.
I had a seller who required one once. It outlined the timeline and how quickly each party had to act. and it required a substantial deposit that per the contract, was non-refundable.
Normally, as a buyer, I would have declined the deal because I'm used to doing deals with trust, but as I wanted that item, I agreed with signing the contract.
The deal worked smoothly (as they usually do) without needing the contract because the seller was very communicative throughout the entire transaction, and submitted the transfer documents quickly and shipped just as quickly. And I paid quickly (same day) as I always do, making the transaction my top priority. So the contract wasn't really necessary, because we were both honest, reliable people.

A contract can be good "piece of mind" if you're dealing with an individual or with an unknown. Because for a lot of people, the deal loses it's excitement once it's agreed on, and people start slacking. Stating things like "my wife needed to go to the hospital", or I had to take my kids to soccer practice" or one of a million excuses why they didn't send payment yet, file the transfer or ship it. And that's where a contract with strict timelines becomes important, and as a seller, a non-refundable clause helps keep the buyer on his toes.

Also, if I were selling an NFA item and did not have a SOT, I'd get ahold of a SOT local to me, one with a good reputation, and have him handle the transfer.
Before I even listed it for sale, I'd transfer it to him so it would already be on a form 3, thereby having it ready to transfer to the buyers SOT via eform 3, which takes only a couple of days. And the SOT is legally allowed to ship it USPS registered mail, which is the only decent way to ship a MG these days.
But this requires trust on your part.


Good luck with your sale.

[gftiv]

Before Efile, Transfers took awhile. Plenty of time for checks to clear. If the payment did not clear, you did not transfer the gun. and BATF could cancel the transfer. I have forgotten the How.

Your gun is NOT C&R. forget the C&R transfer stuff. Out of state you will have to go thru a dealer in the purchasers state.

 

[United Surplus Arms]

1.  certified check, 100% funds up front to start the process.  you can call the issuing bank to verify check is legitimate

2.  some sort of written agreement to protect both parties

3.  video chat/fact time to verify the person and the product are "real".    Be willing to send photos of Form 4 (redacted if you feel more comfortable)

4. the transfer can be cancelled if the transfer of the item does not actually take place.  To do this: Email/mail a signed letter the AFT NFA branch, with the Form 4 number, the item S/N and description, and the reason the transfer did not take place.  (e.g. check bounced).  The ATF will then cancel the Form 4 which voids the transfer.

[Thumpy]

The NFA world is small. Always verify seller/buyer is real you can make a post on here asking if any one knows them.

 

funds up front or sell to a big dealer they won’t typically send funds until the gun is in their possession but they will give you 90% ish of the value and is typically pretty easy.

 

written agreement 

 

Phone call/ video calls with person buying. 
 

Have the fly in to verify it

 

 

Edited January 17 by Thumpy

[Dean]

Before scams I remember in the 90s I mailed a check for $15k to a guy for an AUG and AKS.  Got the guns no problem but he could have easily stole my money.  I miss those trusting days.  

[MPFiveO]

Yeah, the NFA world used to be small and trustworthy. You had to know a guy... There have been so many scams it's just mind boggling. I'm sure everyone remembers the name Dana Reed. If not you should look it up.

These days I would either drive, take a bus, or fly to the sellers location to look at the gun and paperwork. I might even request a test fire while I'm there. You know those high prices asked by guys like Frank and Ruben? Yeah, you can trust those guys and you'll get what you pay for. 

[johnsonlmg41]

 TMI.  Buyer beware

  OP

1.Wire transfer

2. You can't, but if you have industry references that would help. 

3. You begin the transfer when you verify payment

4.  That gun will not transfer directly to a non-SOT out of state.  It can only transfer to a dealer out of state.  

Edited January 19 by johnsonlmg41