Form 5 for gunsmithing

[deerslayer]

I know ATF doesn't require the form 5 for gunsmithing temporary transfer, but I have a customer who wants to do that.  Do you need to fill out all the pages both ways (individual to SOT, then SOT back to individual) or would page 1 be sufficient?  Anybody have any experience on this process?

Dan

[United Surplus Arms]

If you do it - it is page 1 only (for individual to SOT),

if used, The Form 5 must be used in  both directions.  I believe the return to the individual must be all pages, but not positive.  

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensed-gunsmith-receive-nfa-firearm-purposes-repair

send 2 copies to the ATF, each with an original signature.  expect 2 weeks ++ for approval, plus mailing time (both ways)

 

personally, I would try to convince your customer to do it on a letter.  much easier and completely legal.

The times where the customer wants to do a Form 5, I show them the above link to the ATF official policy.

 

Edited October 31, 2025 by United Surplus Arms

[Navgunner]

What’s the value of the work being performed… is it worth the hassle? 

[deerslayer]

About $3000.   Thanks for the opinions.  

[eMGunslinger]

Customer is just asking to over complicate stuff, I'd just pass on the work before dealing with this.

[MPFiveO]

11 hours ago, eMGunslinger said:

Customer is just asking to over complicate stuff, I'd just pass on the work before dealing with this.

I would agree with this assessment. I would avoid doing work for this customer unless you can convince him that the unnecessary paperwork is unnecessary. I'd like to learn the customer's reasoning for wanting to do the unnecessary paperwork. Sounds like it could potentially be a $3000 headache. Not worth it in my mind.

[maddmetal39]

Agree with what everyone has said. I did a form 5 for a ring that ATF denied the interstate transport forms on. ATF approved the form 5 then decided they would deny the transfer back to me. Just adds a unnecessary head ache and added time to what should have been easy.

[johnsonlmg41]

You might want to plant the seed in his head that if he does a transfer then the gun is titled to you.  Should anything happen to you,  and you can't for some reason file  a form 5 back to him the gun sits in your inventory until whatever happens is going to happen.  Back in the day some 02's got lazy and didn't want to do the return form and atf couldn't do much about it and atf got annoyed dealing with both the customer and the 02 and being in the middle, which is one reason the policy changed.  If it's in for repair, aft could go any time and retrieve it from your shop in a worst case scenario and return it to him.   

Most people charge to do forms, but I'm guessing that won't motivate him?

[gftiv]

My thoughts on this. You have a machine gun worth minimum of $10,000. You want a paper trail of ownership. Form 5 does this. On the form 5. put for repair and return to owner. Name and address on Form 5. for $3000 in work, $50 bucks or for the repair person to fill out a return form 5 is insignificant.

[Navgunner]

The paper trail is the owner’s approved form4 coupled with the repair letter.  This is an approved process by the ATF.  The form5 (specific to this case ) is a step beyond that. 

Most risk is mitigated when owners partner with a qualified professional gunsmith who has a long history of performing quality work in an honorable manner. In our community, most of that can be verified through references provided on this site.   In my opinion, a F5 makes owners feel good which I completely understand however, to many gunsmiths, it’s a huge pain in the backside. This is why I asked a question “is it worth the hassle?”.  The answer will differ from person to person and from transaction to transaction. 
 

The gun owner has the right to request the form5 and the gunsmith has the right to decline the opportunity.

[bauerdb]

8 hours ago, gftiv said:

My thoughts on this. You have a machine gun worth minimum of $10,000. You want a paper trail of ownership. Form 5 does this. On the form 5. put for repair and return to owner. Name and address on Form 5. for $3000 in work, $50 bucks or for the repair person to fill out a return form 5 is insignificant.

And this helps how?  It is totally unnecessary.  

[Double Tap Firearms]

So what we have found out is that all you have to do is make out a form 5. You don't have to send it in just send it along with the gun. Same form 5 can be shipped back with the gun. I would send a form four and a form five the customer can fill it out. But does not have to be sent to ATF is what we're being told just need a paper trail in case you get inspected. We've done four or five in the last year.

Hey but I've been wrong before, ask my wife 

[MPFiveO]

18 hours ago, Double Tap Firearms said:

So what we have found out is that all you have to do is make out a form 5. You don't have to send it in just send it along with the gun. Same form 5 can be shipped back with the gun. I would send a form four and a form five the customer can fill it out. But does not have to be sent to ATF is what we're being told just need a paper trail in case you get inspected. We've done four or five in the last year.

Hey but I've been wrong before, ask my wife 

Not sure who told you this. Back in the day you had to mail duplicate copies of the Form 5 to the ATF. They would send you one back approved. Then you could ship your gun out for repair. Then the gunsmith had to do a Form 5 in duplicate and send it to the ATF and wait for it to be returned approved before shipping the gun back.

Absolutely unnecessary as all that is required today is a copy of your Form 4 verifying ownership and registration. A letter detailing the work to be done is not required but recommended in case the question arises about why the item is in the shop. You might not be available to answer that question if it is asked, but a letter would answer sufficiently.

The only thing a Form 5 should be used for today is the transfer from an estate to the heir.

[Double Tap Firearms]

I don't disagree with what used to be. But the last couple times ATF was out to inspect us they told us that anything we ship out needs to have a form 5 with it. My wife found it on ATF frequently asked questions and also on the e-file section. She says it does not specifically specify form four or form three guns. We had one out for repair about 3 months ago and the repair person got inspected and the auditor wanted to know where the paperwork for the form five was. We had shipped one with the gun, he had just misplaced it. That young inspector assumed it still needed sent in because the ATF inspectors don't always know what the rules are I have found out. That's just what we're being told. My wife is a stickler when it comes to paperwork, she says she doesn't want to go to jail lol. So believe me every gun that gets shipped out for repair has a printed out form five to go with it. Every ATF inspector wants something different.

[Double Tap Firearms]

"What are the proper steps to have my NFA item repaired?

When having the NFA item repaired it is strongly recommended to complete a Form 5, both to and from the repair shop. Select Other in Section 1 and write in "Repair". No fingerprint cards, photographs or background chec required when an item returns to the owner."

 

It will change next week

[MPFiveO]

Two takeaways from this...

"It is strongly recommended..."

Meaning it's not lawfully required...

It will change next week

YES

[Chef]

What happens next week?

[MPFiveO]

Sorry Chef, that was meant as sarcasm. An affirmative response to a fluid situation that constantly changes depending on who you ask. I don't know where "these people" get their information but they're definitely not on the same page. I've heard so many dealers saying they were told one thing or another that was completely contrary to the written rules. Sometimes I believe they deliberately put out conflicting information for reasons...

[Double Tap Firearms]

The best advice I got when we started our business was to keep a book and write down every question you asked each ATF agent, date, time, answer. One question could get you five different answers from four different agents. Every time we get inspected the answer changes. But if the ATF agent starts to give you a hard time you pull out the book and show them the answer you got from the last person and they pretty much shut up and say everything looks good here. Just relaying our experiences in what we have been told and found out. Everyone can do it the way they want to do it :-)

[Uncle Zeek]

20 minutes ago, Double Tap Firearms said:

The best advice I got when we started our business was to keep a book and write down every question you asked each ATF agent, date, time, answer. One question could get you five different answers from four different agents. Every time we get inspected the answer changes. But if the ATF agent starts to give you a hard time you pull out the book and show them the answer you got from the last person and they pretty much shut up and say everything looks good here. Just relaying our experiences in what we have been told and found out. Everyone can do it the way they want to do it :-)

Not a bad idea at all.   I like it.

[MPFiveO]

Well, it's called CYA. I learned this in my law enforcement career. Document everything, even if it seems insignificant. It might save your butt down the road. It's very cheap insurance too. I suppose it's true of many government agencies, but it just seems so much more prominent with the ATF in giving out different answers and conflicting information. The problem is, there's no accountability if they tell you it's ok to do something only to later find yourself in trouble for doing it. Whoever told you it was ok will conveniently forget they said that and call you a liar.

[Double Tap Firearms]

Question, date, time, name of AGENT you talked to and answer you got. Has saved us a couple times over stupid stuff. And the new agent doing the audit in your shop doesn't say much in return when you have a book to show them with the last agent's name. That's what we found out. Just trying to help others out if anybody finds a better way to deal with ATF, I'll write that one down too

But true you are

[trilogymac]

In the last 40 years I haven't done any form 5s for repairs. Used a number of smiths.