New "Machine Guns" (Forced Reset Triggers) Now Legal?

[themacanerd]

Per the National Association for Gun Rights"

"In a binding settlement agreement dated May 12th, 2025, the ATF agreed to drop their appeal of NAGR v ATF, abandon its malicious prosecution of Rare Breed Triggers, and return ALL seized Forced Reset Triggers.

That’s right. The ATF is returning illegally sized triggers thanks to our WIN.

This means FRT's are once again federally lawful for ALL law-abiding Americans to possess, purchase and transfer!"

Per NBC News

Under the settlement, the Justice Department “will bind itself, in perpetuity, not to enforce the machinegun ban against any device that functions like forced reset triggers,” one person familiar with the settlement told NBC News."

Looks like the market for transferable guns will take a hit. The demand for transferable MP5s and AR 15's will collapse if anyone can just slap in a $300 forced reset trigger and shoot full auto. 

[Uncle Zeek]

"Under the settlement, the Justice Department “will bind itself, in perpetuity,"

. . . "in perpetuity", or until the end of the Trump administration.  Next time a Democrat is in the White House, what are the odds of this being reversed?

 

[United Surplus Arms]

3 hours ago, themacanerd said:

 

Looks like the market for transferable guns will take a hit. The demand for transferable MP5s and AR 15's will collapse if anyone can just slap in a $300 forced reset trigger and shoot full auto. 

these 2 groups were never in the same market for the same products.  

IMHO, it will have NO impact on the transferrable MG market.

[MPFiveO]

15 hours ago, themacanerd said:

Looks like the market for transferable guns will take a hit. The demand for transferable MP5s and AR 15's will collapse if anyone can just slap in a $300 forced reset trigger and shoot full auto. 

You couldn't be more wrong. But, I see this ruling as a good thing. It's not often we win a 2A fight. Now everyone can enjoy "almost full auto."

Looking forward to seeing development of FRT's for semi auto M249, M240, 1919 and Browning M2 belt feds.

[Don.]

Forced Reset Triggers are NOT machine guns.  They mimic them when installed and tuned properly, but they do not allow fully automatic functioning.

Edited May 17, 2025 by Don.

[Got Uzi]

I can show you a video of a 9mm Colt M16 and a 9mm Colt FRT16…they run the EXACT same RPM/ROF…”mimic full auto fire” might be a tag line to make them sound less scary, but the reality is this-they function EXACTLY like an MG….there is no “almost full auto” with these things. 
 

I have a couple of the DTT FRT units and they are tuned to run in my rifles…I can hand them to someone who has never run a full auto, or run an FRT and they can run it as a select fire weapon within 5-10 rounds. To say it’s not a “machine gun” by definition is one thing, but functionality is reality-they are machine guns in every word of the sense when it comes to the RPM/ROF. All it’s gonna take is some banger using one of these in a high profile shooting and then they will be banned. It’s only a matter of time. 

 

I will put it like this-now that the big money people have gotten involved and drive prices sky high due to making NFA “investments” I see more of these gimmick devices coming to market as NFA prices have been drive out of reach over the past 3-5 years. Honestly I’m on the fence with these things. I bought a couple to see how well they worked….completely floored by how well they do work…shocked they are allowed on the market….and I can see why people like them but they do make me nervous for the future.   
 

I don’t see transferable NFA prices taking a hit over these units, but it could make having places to shoot NFA harder due to people having these devices who have no clue how to safely handle/shoot something with such a rate of fire. 

[Greasegunner]

https://apnews.com/article/justice-department-guns-forced-reset-triggers-c7e5e6ee65171c50c10d4384dd181fec#

[MontanaRenegade86]

20 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

I bought a couple to see how well they worked….completely floored by how well they do work…shocked they are allowed on the market….and I can see why people like them but they do make me nervous for the future.   

With all due respect and no offense intended toward anyone on this Board, but why would anybody be shocked that these are allowed? 

The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

- 26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.

(2)This subsection does not apply with respect to—

(A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(B) any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect.

- 18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

In my mind, there is nothing in the plain language of the law that would lead any reasonable person* to believe that a Forced Reset Trigger or Super Safety is a machinegun. 

*Reasonable person may or may not include government bureaucrats, hack judges, or illiterates. 

**This doesn't constitute legal advice, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a dumbass from Montana. 

***I have a Super Safety and it is fun as hell. Not quite as cool as a real M16, but it does scratch an itch I've had for a long time - a faster shooting AR. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2025 by MontanaRenegade86

[Got Uzi]

No offense taken, this is what is needed, a professional debate/discussion on this topic as it has the ability to blow up and make things hard for alot of people. 
 

All it would take is a a state legislature to redefine them as machine guns by the following language “any device installed into a semi automatic that increases its rate of fire is hereby considered a machine gun”

Change the words to include “rate of fire” and that’s all it’ll take AND you could be in it deep if said legislature didn’t grandfather in exiting NFA items-RDIAS, HK sear, FNC sear, Uzi bolts, and so on. 
 

These units are literally skirting the definition and playing between the lines….poking that bear doesn’t end well for anyone. “Reasonable person” argument doesn’t hold water as I’ve shown video to machine gun guys and let them shoot my FRT and they can’t tell difference in the rate of fire or the function of the firearm. The DTT FRT makes a semi auto AR15 run 100% like an M16 (if tuned correctly) and one of my MG buddies even has a DTT FRT in a BFAR15 lower with a FightLite upper on it. The thing runs 100% and there is no way to tell it’s not a machine gun so a “reasonable person” wouldn’t be able to tell the difference at all. 

[marky]

1 minute ago, Got Uzi said:

No offense taken, this is what is needed, a professional debate/discussion on this topic as it has the ability to blow up and make things hard for alot of people. 
 

All it would take is a a state legislature to redefine them as machine guns by the following language “any device installed into a semi automatic that increases its rate of fire is hereby considered a machine gun”

Change the words to include “rate of fire” and that’s all it’ll take AND you could be in it deep if said legislature didn’t grandfather in exiting NFA items-RDIAS, HK sear, FNC sear, Uzi bolts, and so on. 
 

These units are literally skirting the definition and playing between the lines….poking that bear doesn’t end well for anyone. “Reasonable person” argument doesn’t hold water as I’ve shown video to machine gun guys and let them shoot my FRT and they can’t tell difference in the rate of fire or the function of the firearm. The DTT FRT makes a semi auto AR15 run 100% like an M16 (if tuned correctly) and one of my MG buddies even has a DTT FRT in a BFAR15 lower with a FightLite upper on it. The thing runs 100% and there is no way to tell it’s not a machine gun so a “reasonable person” wouldn’t be able to tell the difference at all. 

The topic of state legislation is good to bring up. I believe quite a few states including Iowa and Florida already prohibit the sale of devices that accelerate a firearm’s rate of fire. 

[Got Uzi]

I think there are 12 or 14 states that ban the FRT unit and many are worded as ROF enhancement devices. IIRC Virginia passed a law a few years ago about ROF enhancement devices and no one knew if they added an existing NFA clause. 

[Ryanjj]

3 hours ago, Greasegunner said:

https://apnews.com/article/justice-department-guns-forced-reset-triggers-c7e5e6ee65171c50c10d4384dd181fec#

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/05/17/politics/device-allows-rifles-fire-quicker

[MPFiveO]

On 5/17/2025 at 7:45 PM, Got Uzi said:

I can show you a video of a 9mm Colt M16 and a 9mm Colt FRT16…they run the EXACT same RPM/ROF…”mimic full auto fire” might be a tag line to make them sound less scary, but the reality is this-they function EXACTLY like an MG….there is no “almost full auto” with these things. 
 

I have a couple of the DTT FRT units and they are tuned to run in my rifles…I can hand them to someone who has never run a full auto, or run an FRT and they can run it as a select fire weapon within 5-10 rounds. To say it’s not a “machine gun” by definition is one thing, but functionality is reality-they are machine guns in every word of the sense when it comes to the RPM/ROF. All it’s gonna take is some banger using one of these in a high profile shooting and then they will be banned. It’s only a matter of time. 

 

I will put it like this-now that the big money people have gotten involved and drive prices sky high due to making NFA “investments” I see more of these gimmick devices coming to market as NFA prices have been drive out of reach over the past 3-5 years. Honestly I’m on the fence with these things. I bought a couple to see how well they worked….completely floored by how well they do work…shocked they are allowed on the market….and I can see why people like them but they do make me nervous for the future.   
 

I don’t see transferable NFA prices taking a hit over these units, but it could make having places to shoot NFA harder due to people having these devices who have no clue how to safely handle/shoot something with such a rate of fire. 

I respectfully disagree. There is no full auto with a FRT, they are as I described "almost full auto". That's why they've given up the fight. Because by the definition written by Congress they do not fit the definition of a machine gun. And guess what! The FRT isn't the first device if it's kind. For you kids, you need to look back to the 80's at a device called the Hellfire trigger actuator. It was a simple clamp with a torsion spring that assisted in resetting the trigger so that the shooter could increase the rate of fire. It didn't work exactly like the FRT but it did reset the trigger faster. If you watch some of the vintage videos you'll see the same rate of fire as the FRT or a real full auto. Rate of fire has nothing to do with the function of the firearm or the trigger when it comes to defining whether or not it is a machine gun. The FRT is not a machine gun, but it does make it much easier for the shooter to shoot faster. The only difference between bump firing and the FRT is the mechanical reset as opposed to the trigger being reset by recoil.

Also consider this. Many have never watched cowboy action shooting. Some of those guys can fan the hammer of a single action revolver so fast that three shots sound like one. Way faster than a factory M16A2 can deliver a burst of three. So again, that doesn't make the cowboy revolver a machine gun even though it is shooting as fast as one.

From a mechanical standpoint, if you pull the trigger hard on a machine gun it will continue to fire automatically. But with the FRT, pulling hard on the trigger will create friction between the bolt carrier, hammer and trigger to the point that it will induce a stoppage. So, much like devices from the past like the bumpstock and Hellfire, it requires a certain amount of technique to master. It's still physical manipulation of a semi auto firearm to make it shoot faster without actually modifying it so that it would fall under the NFA. This is what makes it not a machine gun.

[Uncle Zeek]

Have to agree with Got Uzi on this.  When the Congress and POTUS have changed majorities again in a subsequent election cycle, I have no doubt that Congress will redraft the definition of machinegun to include such devices.

[Got Uzi]

IDK about other FRT units but the one I have you can't mash the trigger and make it not work...but then again you get what you pay for.  When I have handed mine to people, there was no learning curve or technique to master.  Its literally plug, play, hammer time.

 

Again, this entire argument is a play on words and playing between the lines.

[MPFiveO]

3 hours ago, Uncle Zeek said:

Have to agree with Got Uzi on this.  When the Congress and POTUS have changed majorities again in a subsequent election cycle, I have no doubt that Congress will redraft the definition of machinegun to include such devices.

This part I do agree on. Look how long it took for the bumpstock ban to work it's way through the court system. And then look how long it took to ban them in the first place. Our freedom is spelled out in ink, mostly dry, but sometimes still wet. We've all seen how quickly minds can change from the elected and unelected officials. Meanwhile, we just want to enjoy freedom, and then something grabs their attention and they slam their fist down on their desk and say "Stop doing that!"

If they don't rewrite the federal definition it will be because enough states drafted regulation on them. As mentioned many states already have.  Alabama just passed a law making it illegal to possess a Glock switch, which is already illegal under federal law. But, the first offense is a misdemeanor and the second offense is a felony. So, unlike federal law, you get a slap on the wrist the first time. But, there was no reason for the law in the first place.

Like most of you we can already see the writing on the wall. It's only a matter of time before this window of freedom is closed. There was a country song that alluded to having too much fun and these triggers are just that. One day the fun will be over and it will be May 19, 1986 all over again.

The biggest fear is the possibility that they won't stop with the triggers. We know they'll never stop anyway, but there's not much keeping them from going after guns they deem easily modified. They already succeeded with open bolt guns back in 1982. All it will take is a demonstration of how a simple coat hanger can be used to make an AR-15 fire automatically. Because everyone owns coat hangers! That might even get you the charge of possession with intent to convert. 

My point is, this fight will never end. They will always be trying to take our guns away. If you know your history you'd know that's how things got rolling here in what we now know as America. That, and burdensome taxes under which we are all buried. It's almost sad to see where we are now in a country of regulations rather than freedom that we actually did once enjoy. We were enjoying it so much that we went to sleep and the government rolled over on top of us so now we're being smothered. Enjoy these days of what we perceive as winning freedom but rest assured, they'll be back.

[M38A1-Josh]

This is definitely an enjoy it while it lasts kind of thing. My state could ban them. Congress could ban them. But until then, buy the $100 super safety and live it up. 

There may be a tiny impact on transferables, but 99% of the people buying FRTs were never going to buy a transferable anyways.

I am one of the few who was starting to shop for a transferable but then decided not to due to the availability of FRTs. As long as they are available, I'm not a transferable buyer.

I have yet to encounter an unsafe user of an FRT, and I get around to a lot of shoots. I'm sure they're out there though.

Last month I came kind of close to being shot by an idiot who is the proud new owner of a transferable SMG. Spending transferable money doesn't mean you know a thing about guns or safety.

[Don.]

On 5/17/2025 at 6:45 PM, Got Uzi said:

I can show you a video of a 9mm Colt M16 and a 9mm Colt FRT16…they run the EXACT same RPM/ROF…”mimic full auto fire” might be a tag line to make them sound less scary, but the reality is this-they function EXACTLY like an MG….there is no “almost full auto” with these things. 
 

I have a couple of the DTT FRT units and they are tuned to run in my rifles…I can hand them to someone who has never run a full auto, or run an FRT and they can run it as a select fire weapon within 5-10 rounds. To say it’s not a “machine gun” by definition is one thing, but functionality is reality-they are machine guns in every word of the sense when it comes to the RPM/ROF. All it’s gonna take is some banger using one of these in a high profile shooting and then they will be banned. It’s only a matter of time. 

None of my transferables reset the trigger.  All of them manipulate the disconnector and/or sear.  They concoct the ridiculous definitions and it’s our job, as Americans, to circumvent them as best as we can while remaining legal.

The bangers are already using actual MGs.  Most notably the Glock switches.  Their chinese made parts function better and different than the Glock FRTs.

For as little as I have invested monetarily, I’m going to enjoy the hell out of them until the losers move the goal posts again.

[Greasegunner]

I have been selling FRT triggers since 2022

and am a distributor. AR15s are a drop in and i sell them

too cheap in my opinion for what it is $150

if anyone wants some reach out and contact me.

I have sold hundreds with many repeat orders so i know they work!!!

 

Edited May 20, 2025 by Greasegunner

[chappy]

I have been selling FRT triggers since 2022

On 5/20/2025 at 6:41 PM, Greasegunner said:

I have been selling FRT triggers since 2022

Greasegunner, I picked 4 of these up. Gave one to my son. I sold one to a friend who was deadset on a WOT. He had a gunsmith put it in. The gunsmith bought the 2 I had on hand and wanted 5 more. My son says it is a gamechanger and he shoots my select fire guns. They have a newer model that will fit your already installed trigger.

I am not really selling them but there is a market. I am not a purist, but why pay the price for an M16? Bragging rights? Because from what I see, there is very little difference between the M16 and the Super Safety. I look forward to trying the Super Safety for the AK. As I wrote earlier, my son says it is a gamechanger so I would like to try it. Essentialy, it seems your AR or AK becomes a poor mans machine gun. 

Edited May 22, 2025 by chappy

[MontanaRenegade86]

On 5/18/2025 at 6:10 PM, Got Uzi said:

These units are literally skirting the definition and playing between the lines….poking that bear doesn’t end well for anyone. “Reasonable person” argument doesn’t hold water as I’ve shown video to machine gun guys and let them shoot my FRT and they can’t tell difference in the rate of fire or the function of the firearm. The DTT FRT makes a semi auto AR15 run 100% like an M16 (if tuned correctly) and one of my MG buddies even has a DTT FRT in a BFAR15 lower with a FightLite upper on it. The thing runs 100% and there is no way to tell it’s not a machine gun so a “reasonable person” wouldn’t be able to tell the difference at all. 

If a person lacks the ability to read, analyze, and understand plain written text and has no apparent understanding of basic mechanical concepts, I would argue that that person is a rube. 

A binary trigger is closer to a machinegun than a Forced Reset Trigger is. And yet, there is nary a word about them.

ETA: I thought the SuperSafety was suspect as hell until I did a dry fire function test. There is clearly a trigger reset. You might not feel it during live fire, but it is there. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2025 by MontanaRenegade86

[JoshNC]

On 5/18/2025 at 8:10 PM, Got Uzi said:

No offense taken, this is what is needed, a professional debate/discussion on this topic as it has the ability to blow up and make things hard for alot of people. 
 

All it would take is a a state legislature to redefine them as machine guns by the following language “any device installed into a semi automatic that increases its rate of fire is hereby considered a machine gun”

Change the words to include “rate of fire” and that’s all it’ll take AND you could be in it deep if said legislature didn’t grandfather in exiting NFA items-RDIAS, HK sear, FNC sear, Uzi bolts, and so on. 
 

These units are literally skirting the definition and playing between the lines….poking that bear doesn’t end well for anyone. “Reasonable person” argument doesn’t hold water as I’ve shown video to machine gun guys and let them shoot my FRT and they can’t tell difference in the rate of fire or the function of the firearm. The DTT FRT makes a semi auto AR15 run 100% like an M16 (if tuned correctly) and one of my MG buddies even has a DTT FRT in a BFAR15 lower with a FightLite upper on it. The thing runs 100% and there is no way to tell it’s not a machine gun so a “reasonable person” wouldn’t be able to tell the difference at all. 

I’ll spin the positive. If FRTs become ubiquitous and are declared MGs, there goes a real “in common use” argument for a court case. 
 

The pistol brace being declared a stock and braced pistols declared SBRs was a golden opportunity to use that as the grounds for a court case to sue for removal of SBR from  NFA regulation. Instead the brace manufacturers sued to keep pistol braces. And the gun rights group short sighted went along. That opportunity was squandered.

[Got Uzi]

I have a feeling this entire thing will end up in the courts and ultimately be a states issue with more states being added to the list which have banned them.  

[United Surplus Arms]

6 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

I have a feeling this entire thing will end up in the courts and ultimately be a states issue with more states being added to the list which have banned them.  

I agree and it will be interesting to see if the State bans are overturned on constitutional grounds. (2A/supremacy clause)

[Don.]

If you REALLY believe that it’s a MG conversion, zip tie the trigger back and try cycling the action.  If it’s correctly installed, you won’t get the bolt to cycle back beyond resetting the trigger and it won’t work.  If you can cycle the action you will have hammer follow and it won’t work.  I have read/heard that the zip tie test is one of the qualifiers for the fedz in determining whether or not something is a MG.

If you don’t like them or don’t believe in them, fine.  You don’t have to get any and that’s more for the rest of us.  Please do the rest of us heathens a favor and please stop trying to Jedi-mind-trick everyone in to thinking they’re illegal.  Again, you are not obligated to buy or use them.  You’re not obligated to participate in threads regarding them either.

My opinion…hater’s gonna hate.  Whatever.

[Got Uzi]

I look at the cyclic rate and that’s what I’m basing my opinion on. I can show you video proof at there is no cyclic rate difference and the control is the same.

 

I didn’t say they are illegal-stop pulling words out of the air. I’m point out what can and most likely will happen at some point in the future. I’m so glad we can’t have a civil discussion without someone’s butt getting hurt anymore

[MontanaRenegade86]

/SARCASM ACTIVATE

I no longer believe that there is any discernable difference between:

• A SuperSafety and a machinegun
• A semi-automatic AR-15 and a fully-automatic M4
• A tR@NSwOMan and a biological female 

/SARCASM DISENGAGE

 

Edited May 27, 2025 by MontanaRenegade86

[OhioBrett]

On 5/27/2025 at 6:11 PM, MontanaRenegade86 said:

/SARCASM ACTIVATE

I no longer believe that there is any discernable difference between:

• A SuperSafety and a machinegun
• A semi-automatic AR-15 and a fully-automatic M4
• A tR@NSwOMan and a biological female 

/SARCASM DISENGAGE

 

I'm worried some antis are going to realize you can shoot a lot of semis at a faster cylic rate than a lot of full-auto guns. Plenty of fudds would go along with that, if their 10/22s and 1100s are exempt.

[MPFiveO]

5 hours ago, OhioBrett said:

I'm worried some antis are going to realize you can shoot a lot of semis at a faster cylic rate than a lot of full-auto guns. Plenty of fudds would go along with that, if their 10/22s and 1100s are exempt.

This is probably the biggest concern we face in modern times. With 3D modeling and printing people have figured out dozens of ways to get semi auto guns to shoot faster, not all of them legal without the proper licensing. Suddenly any semi auto centerfire could be classified as readily convertible.

 

On 5/26/2025 at 5:42 PM, Got Uzi said:

I look at the cyclic rate and that’s what I’m basing my opinion on. I can show you video proof at there is no cyclic rate difference and the control is the same.

You are entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong. We'd all be in possession of machine guns if that were the case because every semi auto firearm can be manipulated to shoot "at cyclic rate" one way or another. My registered M3 Grease Gun cycles at a rate of 450 rpm, yet I can bump fire an AR-15 at close to 800 rpm. So, your opinion would make my semi auto AR-15 a machine gun, which it clearly is not.  The actual definition of a machine gun is the only definition that we should be concerned with... because that is what the law is based on, the definition written by Congress, the one the ATF uses to prosecute people. If the ATF were allowed to prosecute people for shooting too fast we'd all be in deep poop.

Thank God that THEIR opinions are just that, and that they don't carry the weight of an actual law. Opinions can change, laws generally do not, particularly when that change is in our favor. We should be thankful that Rare Breed was able to push them back and that we can enjoy a little bit of what we call freedom. But don't think for a minute that we've won because they're just taking a break. They're regrouping and forming a new strategy constantly to infringe on what shall not be infringed.

The rest of us would appreciate it if you'd refrain from continually stating that FRT's are machine guns because they have the same cyclic rate as a machine gun. It's fine to have that opinion but it can be factually debunked, because it was, in court.

[Got Uzi]

Clearly you missed my comment that IF the definition were changed by Congress, which it very well could, then we are all in for it. 

Just remember this boys and girls-the more you poke that bear, the more ironclad the next Assault Weapons Ban will be….yall keep playing checkers and being short sighted on what can and most likely will come in the next 3-5 years when those in power swing the other way and then this will be referred to as “the good old days” 

[MPFiveO]

1 hour ago, Got Uzi said:

Clearly you missed my comment that IF the definition were changed by Congress, which it very well could, then we are all in for it. 

Just remember this boys and girls-the more you poke that bear, the more ironclad the next Assault Weapons Ban will be….yall keep playing checkers and being short sighted on what can and most likely will come in the next 3-5 years when those in power swing the other way and then this will be referred to as “the good old days” 

Clearly you just want to argue instead of discuss. Everyone can see the comments you made and your opinion you shared.

You're right about this, these are the good old days. AR's as cheap as $350. Factory spec HK's being imported from Turkey at discount prices. All kinds of good deals on magazines. Ammo could still stand to come down a bit but at least it's available and there's no shortage due to panic buying.

No one knows what the future holds, unless you have a crystal ball or a time machine. If you do I'd like to borrow it. You sound like you're from the HOA squawking about not poking the bear. That's exactly what Americans do, we poke bears. THEY are the ones who infringed on our rights. If they hadn't infringed on our rights in 1934, 1968, 1986, etc etc we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But, they did, so some mechanically intellectual people have beaten them at their word games. The bear has been poked, it's the bear's move. We appreciate your dire warning about what could happen in the next 3 to 5 years, but not really.

So, what would you suggest we do? Turn in our FRT's and apologize for shooting fast? Stop asking for military grade firearms that are fun to shoot? You don't seem to want to come clean and state your actual point, if you even have one. It's no secret that they're trying to disarm law abiding citizens. They have been for a long time. Why does it even make a difference what we do? If it's legal then we have the right to carry on.

Maybe you should be preaching about voting habits instead. Maybe tell people that they should reach out and talk to their candidate or research them before checking that box because we all know, elections have consequences. That's how we got here in the first place.

[MontanaRenegade86]

10 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

Clearly you missed my comment that IF the definition were changed by Congress, which it very well could, then we are all in for it. 

Just remember this boys and girls-the more you poke that bear, the more ironclad the next Assault Weapons Ban will be….yall keep playing checkers and being short sighted on what can and most likely will come in the next 3-5 years when those in power swing the other way and then this will be referred to as “the good old days” 

If I gave a rotting rat's arse about "if Congress...", I would never have gotten into firearms in the first place.

My family has been in this country since the 1630's and we've seen a lot over the past 400 years. I'm not throwing away my completely legal firearm accessory because of how some greasy bureaucrat in either Washington DC or Helena, Montana feels about such an item.

...

Brother @MPFiveO, I think you have articulated most of my thoughts on this subject quite well. Thank you.

...

Final thought.....for a knowledgeable person to say a Forced Reset Trigger is functionally the same thing as a fully automatic weapon is disingenuous at best. I seriously question the motives of one who makes such a statement. 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2025 by MontanaRenegade86

[Don.]

On 6/6/2025 at 7:56 AM, Got Uzi said:

Just remember this boys and girls-the more you poke that bear, the more ironclad the next Assault Weapons Ban will be….yall keep playing checkers and being short sighted on what can and most likely will come in the next 3-5 years when those in power swing the other way and then this will be referred to as “the good old days” 

I’m balls deep in the bear and have no intention of pulling out.  If you don’t want to use a FRT because of “what if”, that’s your choice.  Have fun with that.

[Detroit Tactical Firearms]

On 5/20/2025 at 7:41 PM, Greasegunner said:

I have been selling FRT triggers since 2022

and am a distributor. AR15s are a drop in and i sell them

too cheap in my opinion for what it is $150

if anyone wants some reach out and contact me.

I have sold hundreds with many repeat orders so i know they work!!!

 

You caught my attention. Please send info on how to procure one through you 

John@DTFUSA.com

[MPFiveO]

Time for a bump on this thread. Over the weekend I had the opportunity to try out one of the Hoffman Tactical Super Safety triggers. Got Uzi and Grease Gunner have commented quite a bit about this system. I can now say that it is different than the Forced Reset Triggers but it gives the same result. I stated before that if you press too hard on the FRT it will put pressure on the bolt carrier and induce a malfunction. This is not an issue with the SS trigger. I shot my buddy's SS equipped AR and then shot my Colt M16A1. I couldn't tell the difference, other than feeling just a slight movement in the trigger on the SS equipped AR. I put rather moderate pressure on the trigger but could not make it malfunction.

The only downside I see in these triggers is that parts do have a higher rate of wear and breakage compared to an actual machine gun. But the parts are comparatively inexpensive compared to buying a machine gun so it's a non issue.

I see these catching on like wildfire but I also see the potential for future regulation and restrictions on them. Not because they might end up being used in a headline making crime, but because they absolutely work as advertised. They, you know, THEY, don't want us to have machine guns and these are just a bit too close to that edge. We'll just have to wait and see.

In the meantime, you know the old saying, "Smoke 'em if you got 'em."

[JMPinTN]

Anyone here tried the “Arizona regulator”? 
 

Stand alone unit that fits in the cutout of the upper receiver.
 

[Flashpoint]

On 7/25/2025 at 5:44 PM, JMPinTN said:

Anyone here tried the “Arizona regulator”? 
 

Stand alone unit that fits in the cutout of the upper receiver.
 

I have the Milspec and Larue Arizona Regulator FRTs but I haven’t had the time to try them out yet. It’s a pretty ingenious design. 

[JMPinTN]

On 7/28/2025 at 7:04 PM, Flashpoint said:

I have the Milspec and Larue Arizona Regulator FRTs but I haven’t had the time to try them out yet. It’s a pretty ingenious design. 

I’m going to order the Milspec version. They seem to be easier to use than all the others on the market currently. Need a belt fed upper to go with it:

[Don.]

On 7/24/2025 at 7:01 AM, MPFiveO said:

Time for a bump on this thread. Over the weekend I had the opportunity to try out one of the Hoffman Tactical Super Safety triggers. Got Uzi and Grease Gunner have commented quite a bit about this system. I can now say that it is different than the Forced Reset Triggers but it gives the same result. I stated before that if you press too hard on the FRT it will put pressure on the bolt carrier and induce a malfunction. This is not an issue with the SS trigger. I shot my buddy's SS equipped AR and then shot my Colt M16A1. I couldn't tell the difference, other than feeling just a slight movement in the trigger on the SS equipped AR. I put rather moderate pressure on the trigger but could not make it malfunction.

The only downside I see in these triggers is that parts do have a higher rate of wear and breakage compared to an actual machine gun. But the parts are comparatively inexpensive compared to buying a machine gun so it's a non issue.

I see these catching on like wildfire but I also see the potential for future regulation and restrictions on them. Not because they might end up being used in a headline making crime, but because they absolutely work as advertised. They, you know, THEY, don't want us to have machine guns and these are just a bit too close to that edge. We'll just have to wait and see.

In the meantime, you know the old saying, "Smoke 'em if you got 'em."

The biggest downside according to arfcom is the cross-bolt actuation.  It doesn’t matter to me whether it rotates, pushes in/out or if I need to say Beetlejuice three times.  The parts are as easy to replace as the FCG and they’re dirt cheap.  When I get a .22lr version put together, my transferable ‘16 will probably never see the light of day again, lol!

Haters gonna hate, boomers gonna boom and fuddz are gonna fudd.  Good for them.  Every culture seems to have its judenrats, and they’re ours.  I can’t fix their jealousy.

[johnsonlmg41]

I've bought some of this stuff and the trend I see coming is, by the end of the year, these are/will be the new "glock switches".   There are going to be a lot of crocodile tears coming.  Have fun, but be forewarned,  it will be ending in most places fairly soon.  Don't shoot the messenger.  Sadly, in the end, this is a country where people banned jarts, 3 gallon toilets, and tungsten light bulbs.

[M38A1-Josh]

I'm now seeing FRTs for the kriss vector and AUG. Garand Thumb just did a video on the MP5 FRT which is causing those to sell out everywhere. I can't wait to see what gets an FRT next.

I think I have figured out how to make one for a Browning 1919 but I have no time to prototype it.

[JMPinTN]

11 hours ago, M38A1-Josh said:

I'm now seeing FRTs for the kriss vector and AUG. Garand Thumb just did a video on the MP5 FRT which is causing those to sell out everywhere. I can't wait to see what gets an FRT next.

I think I have figured out how to make one for a Browning 1919 but I have no time to prototype it.

1919 would be fun with a FRT. 

I wonder if the mp5 FRT would work with one of the *mga 249 clones that uses the HK trigger pack?

Edited July 31, 2025 by JMPinTN

[MPFiveO]

9 hours ago, JMPinTN said:

 

I wonder if the mp5 FRT would work with one of the *mga 249 clones that uses the HK trigger pack?

If you think about it, a FRT trigger could be designed for any semi auto firearm. It's no different than converting one to full auto. In the case of a full auto you need a way to hold the hammer back until the bolt is locked into battery. With a FRT you need a way to reset the trigger and lock it until the bolt is locked into battery.

The design is ingenious as it used the same concept as a machine gun, but different so that it doesn't meet the definition of a machine gun. With a machine gun like the M16 or AK, a sear holds the hammer back until the bolt carrier trips it releasing the hammer. With the FRT, a sear holds the trigger forward until the bolt carrier trips it releasing the trigger.

The definition of a machine gun hinges on the words "single function of the trigger" but the individuals who drafted the legislation never envisioned a trigger that could be automatically reset so that all the operator had to do was maintain pressure on the trigger, similar to a machine gun, in order to fire successive shots.

With a FRT every shot fired is done so with a single function of the trigger by pulling it. This concept can be applied to just about any semi automatic firearm. The window of opportunity is wide open.

[Chef]

And soon the definition of a "machine gun" will be changed to match current technology, and the FRT and other gimmicks designed to circumvent the law will be outlawed. 
Remember, the AFT believes deeply in the "intent" of the law and only uses wording and definitions to express their intent. So as new inventions become available, they have to play "catch up" to keep up with them.
And rest assured, they have been consulting with their attorneys and are currently drafting new regulations and definitions to deal with these loophole devices. 

[Got Uzi]

The one concern I see when that happens is rolling in transferable seats, bolts, and other registered NFA “conversion devices” into that because of poor choices in wording. 

[MontanaRenegade86]

On 8/1/2025 at 12:53 AM, Chef said:

And soon the definition of a "machine gun" will be changed to match current technology, and the FRT and other gimmicks designed to circumvent the law will be outlawed. 

So be it.

Until such time as the statutes are changed via the legislative process (or a rogue judicial ruling), ATF has to follow the plain text of the law. 

If Congress doesn't want us to have these things, they need to sack up, do their job, and change the law via the legislative process. 

Chances are that Congress won't do anything for at least a few years. As it stands now, these feckless clowns can barely pass a simple budget.

 

 

[Don.]

5 hours ago, MontanaRenegade86 said:

So be it.

Until such time as the statutes are changed via the legislative process (or a rogue judicial ruling), ATF has to follow the plain text of the law. 

If Congress doesn't want us to have these things, they need to sack up, do their job, and change the law via the legislative process. 

Chances are that Congress won't do anything for at least a few years. As it stands now, these feckless clowns can barely pass a simple budget.

 

 

Yep!  The more of these in circulation, the less likely they are going to be able to do anything.  Kinda like what happened with the brace.

[Chef]

There are wishes and then there's reality.  So I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell off my "real" MGs, somehow thinking these gimmicks are going to devalue and replace them.

[MontanaRenegade86]

5 hours ago, Chef said:

I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell off my "real" MGs, somehow thinking these gimmicks are going to devalue and replace them.

Me either, because that would be retarded. 

What I can do is save my Lightning Link budget money and put it toward a BAR... 

[Don.]

15 hours ago, Chef said:

There are wishes and then there's reality.  So I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell off my "real" MGs, somehow thinking these gimmicks are going to devalue and replace them.

I never once said that I was selling anything.  On the other hand, I have four AKs and three ARs that are more fun to shoot now than they were previously.  For around a grand, I’ve literally saved in the neighborhood of $200K at current rates and my transferables are on vacation.  More money for ammo!  
Just think how pissed you and the other boomers are gonna be if they declare them illegal and do another forbearance?  I’m going to register every last freaking one, just like I did with the braces.  The sky didn’t fall and they didn’t reverse that like everyone was incorrectly speculating.

Right now is not a good time to sell anyway.  The soonest I’m selling transferable MGs are after retirement when the market dictates…during another red scare.  Yes, there will be more, lol!

Edited August 3, 2025 by Don.

[JMPinTN]

On 7/28/2025 at 7:04 PM, Flashpoint said:

I have the Milspec and Larue Arizona Regulator FRTs but I haven’t had the time to try them out yet. It’s a pretty ingenious design. 

My Milspec Arizona Regulator showed up today. Dropped it in a FN military collector 20” rifle.

Took all of 10 minutes to get the trip filed down to work. Ran 2-30 round mags without any issues.

[Don.]

Congratulations!!

Every time a Title I firearm gets a FRT, a boomer cries and calls foul, LOL!

[Toby]

I remember reading the pistol brace decision the ATF put out. I have a feeling some screenshots from this thread will more than likely be used or at least considered to be used in the eventual ATF ban on these devices. It is an interesting read nonetheless. 

[Don.]

7 hours ago, Toby said:

I remember reading the pistol brace decision the ATF put out. I have a feeling some screenshots from this thread will more than likely be used or at least considered to be used in the eventual ATF ban on these devices. It is an interesting read nonetheless. 

They already banned them and the courts told them to pack sand…as they  did with the braces.  I think the bureaucrats have better things to do than capturing screenshots from the internet.  

[Toby]

37 minutes ago, Don. said:

They already banned them and the courts told them to pack sand…as they  did with the braces.  I think the bureaucrats have better things to do than capturing screenshots from the internet.  

I’m aware of that. And not to be argumentative but “better to do” has nothing to do with it. It’s their job. I’ve heard by changing just a few words the ban on braces can be brought back. It was withdrawn. Screenshots and YouTube grabs were included the last time. They have agents who do nothing else but search social media. All day, everyday. Most law enforcement agencies do as well.

[Don.]

On 8/31/2025 at 6:51 AM, Toby said:

I’m aware of that. And not to be argumentative but “better to do” has nothing to do with it. It’s their job. I’ve heard by changing just a few words the ban on braces can be brought back. It was withdrawn. Screenshots and YouTube grabs were included the last time. They have agents who do nothing else but search social media. All day, everyday. Most law enforcement agencies do as well.

In that case, I’m doing everything I can to make sure they have a good supply of screenshots.  I’m having a good time doing it too.  You might not want to be viewing these evil threads, as they have the technology to track that making you an accessory or conspirator…now they have a screenshot for evidence. 

[JMPinTN]

Check out the YouTube videos on the Taurus TX22 FRT. Dump a mag in a half a sec.

Someone needs to design one for a PS90 next 

[Thumpy]

Problem is once they try to change the definition on what a mg is I believe the in common use argument will apply and they will effectively probably over turn the mgs rules in the process 

[MPFiveO]

I shot a Taurus TX22 with FRT today. It actually shoots faster than my full auto MAC 11 Fleming .22 conversion kit. These are the good old days. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I know we can speculate and guess on what the future holds but in my opinion the FRT and SS and window is a limited opportunity. Everyone I've talked to feels the same way too. This is only temporary but have fun while you can.

It would be nice if the FRT technology is the catalyst that brings down the whole MG ban and NFA, but it's more likely that they'll be reclassified through legislation, whether legitimate or not. Anyone ever seen the voice vote on the Hughes Amendment?

[Thumpy]

The key is every one keep buying them so they are in common use