Rewelding a Broken Transferable M16 Lower

[imacer]

What's everyone opinion on the 2 Broken transferable M16 lowers that are being sold on Gunbroker right now by Sienna Armory that end in 9 days.

I mean I find it cool that both were used in Movie/TV and both are transferable, but both have some serious damage to them. Like if they were non-NFA lowers they would just get tossed. 

 

I know that welding aluminum is hard as is, but is it even worse with cast aluminum?

I have seen some posts online of people rewelding magwells from destoryed early M16 and mating them to a 80% or semi lower. But the magwell and break is different than the rear position buffer tube ring breaks both of these lowers have.

Provided a repair is to be done correctly would they even be able to be reliable for full auto fire? Given the amount of force on the buffer? 

I find it sad that we are put in this position due to the registry being closed since May of 1986.

But I am also glad that most likely these will be rebuilt by those that are very skilled and brave. 

Edited March 7 by imacer

[MPFiveO]

I used to know what type of aluminum Essential Arms used to cast their lowers. I'm not sure if it's weldable or not. M60 Joe used to do this kind of work but he's now retired.

Just FYI, these receivers didn't get broken through normal use or even hard use, these were abused by either dropping or throwing them. SWD and other companies converted hundreds of Essential Arms receivers and they run just fine. Billet or forged receivers would not do much better subjected to the same abuse. I watched a lieutenant crack a Colt M16A1 receiver simply by propping his foot on his rifle while it was leaning on a truck tire. It cracked right through the thin part under the charging handle where the buffer tube screws in. The sound it made was awful. It went back to the depot for a replacement receiver and the original was scrapped.

It really is a shame that certain firearms cannot be replaced simply because of their status. A status which was arbitrarily made up and written into law.  I'm sure with enough skill these receivers can be repaired. No one seems to be able to answer the question of how much repair is allowed before it's not ok. We've all seen experts weld an 80% rear to an original mag well so that the original serial number and markings are preserved. Would that be considered a repair or making a new receiver? Most would say making a new receiver because the original had been scrapped, but... The scrapping process damages the receiver rendering it non functional so again, is fixing it considered a repair or new manufacture? The process ends up the same, a receiver with the same serial number and restored function.

With a cast receiver, could it be melted and cast again??? It would be the same metal in the same form performing the same function... No one will have a good answer to that question because all of the arguments would revolve around the statute that prohibits new manufacture for citizens.

I wish the new owners the best of luck.

[jbntex]

I think that repair of that area in cast aluminum is going to be tough  even under the best conditions and any repair in that high stress  rear takedown/buffer ring area is going to be of dubious longevity under normal use.   You can't legally melt and recast them as that would be destroying the serial number and maker markings

My personal take given they are both over $5K now (with more than a week to go) is that somebody is going to buy these receiver and remanufacture them and hope that a couple years of time will wash away folks memory.  There are just too many shady folks in this industry looking to make a buck on unsuspecting buyers.

One option we have seen in the past is folks move the serial and maker markings to a new 80% M4 style lower and resell them to an unsuspecting buyer who doesn't know the difference.

If the remanufacturers are more clever they will buy two actual vintage era semi-auto EA J-15s and will weld over the existing serial or mill an oval depression in the lower and restamp the transferable serial numbers on the replacement  vintage era correct J-15s, media blast them and cover it all up with a thick coat of bake on paint and then resell them.

If somebody gave them to me for free.  The really bad one I would probably mill the back end clean and bolt and/or dovetail on some type of piece that could serve to hold the rear of the upper closed and also serve as a mounting point for a ACE style folding stock and to and just turn it into dedicated 22lr guns using a Ciener type kit that doesn't require a buffer tube and is really low pressure/recoil. 

The other one with just the cracked ring but intact rear take down pin hole, maybe try and weld or solder the broken ring part back, then make some sort of screw in stock adapter that is soldered/brazed and bolted to the back of the lower for more stability and try and make it run with a  modified SIG MCX/Rattler type upper where the action is completely contained inside the upper receiver in order to minimize any stress on the repaired buffer ring which at that point would just effectively serve as a stock mounting point.  If the weld repair attempt failed and/or a buffer-less rifle caliber is still to much stress, than also turn that one into a dedicated 22LR host.

Hopefully they get repaired and get resold with honesty about their damage/repair pedigree and they can make a nice low pressure 22LR host and/or MCX upper type host for many decades to come.   

I personally saved off the pictures and serial numbers in my archives for the day these units pop back up for sale  so I can tell if some cast aluminum TIG welding god actually put humpty back together again or if the transferable serials migrated in part or in whole to new lowers in some shape or fashion.

Just my two cents anyway.

Edited March 7 by jbntex

[johnsonlmg41]

They are both fixable.  As to who does it and how, that's a different matter, but they are not that far gone, thus reflected in the prices.  I'd guess they will surpass 10K, since the labor and material is not all that expensive in relative terms to 20K+ for one in working condition.

[SGT Fish]

I wouldn't be surprised to see them go for $15k+

People get weird about buying broken stuff to fix. You see dewats go for normal MG prices sometimes

[har1690]

Who would be someone that has the skill and talent to work on these M16's?

[Side Arm Sams]

1 hour ago, har1690 said:

Who would be someone that has the skill and talent to work on these M16's?

Look for a welder/fabricator in the avionics industry. Those welders are the top craftsmen with aluminum repairs & fabrication with high stress limits. 
IMHO.

[StrangeRanger]

Maybe he can help

https://www.garysbunker.com/m16-receiver-repairs/

[Uncle Zeek]

1 hour ago, StrangeRanger said:

Maybe he can help

https://www.garysbunker.com/m16-receiver-repairs/

Wow - those before & after photos are amazing.  Maybe the receivers in the listing are salvageable after all

[MPFiveO]

Gary's Bunker is who M60 Joe recommended as his successor when he retired. He'll also repair a damaged DIAS or LL.

[har1690]

Like mentioned before, how will these two MG's stand up to FA fire and long term once repaired?

[lonewolftactical]

12k...and only broken once!!!

Are these the NFA equivalent of the guys that buy a ragged out 2001 Honda Civic and spend 150k and the next decade trying to make it a Super Car?

On their best day they were still cast junk. E.A. was lower than Olympic Arms on the list of stuff not to buy.

[lonewolftactical]

On 3/8/2025 at 5:58 PM, lonewolftactical said:

12k...and only broken once!!!

Are these the NFA equivalent of the guys that buy a ragged out 2001 Honda Civic and spend 150k and the next decade trying to make it a Super Car?

On their best day they were still cast junk. E.A. was lower than Olympic Arms on the list of stuff not to buy.

Both closed out for $18k and change ea to the same guy on the fun joker

Why buy a factory Colt for 36k when you can have these real pieces (pun intended) of Hollywood History!!

[MPFiveO]

You know what's ironic... That you stated...

On 3/8/2025 at 4:58 PM, lonewolftactical said:

Are these the NFA equivalent of the guys that buy a ragged out 2001 Honda Civic and spend 150k and the next decade trying to make it a Super Car?

The buyers handle was Viperdrvr which sounds like maybe he does drive at least a pseudo supercar and not a ragged out Honda Civic.  I wish the buyer the best of luck in his endeavor to polish turds. I know these can be made to work and work well, the problem is time and money. It's going to take a bit of both to make these useful. And at the price they sold for it will be a long time before any increase in value is realized. I just hope we don't see a pair of 80% receivers sporting these serial numbers in the near future.

[Chef]

On 3/8/2025 at 11:35 PM, har1690 said:

Like mentioned before, how will these two MG's stand up to FA fire and long term once repaired?

The buyer probably doesn't care.
I'm sure he intends to "repair" and then flip them to someone new to the NFA world for top dollar.

But to answer your question, that area where the damage is is a high stress area (as can be ascertained because they were addressed with the A2 reinforcements in that area), and I suspect that if the user isn't careful, the repair will fail.

[pinball-1]

6 hours ago, MPFiveO said:

You know what's ironic... That you stated...

The buyers handle was Viperdrvr which sounds like maybe he does drive at least a pseudo supercar and not a ragged out Honda Civic.  I wish the buyer the best of luck in his endeavor to polish turds. I know these can be made to work and work well, the problem is time and money. It's going to take a bit of both to make these useful. And at the price they sold for it will be a long time before any increase in value is realized. I just hope we don't see a pair of 80% receivers sporting these serial numbers in the near future.

Viperdrvr is Tom from Vector Arms, guessing he has a pretty good handle on how to repair these.

[MPFiveO]

1 hour ago, pinball-1 said:

Viperdrvr is Tom from Vector Arms, guessing he has a pretty good handle on how to repair these.

Well that makes perfect sense now. A guy with time, money and firearms manufacturing experience. I'd love to see a detailed repair process documentary so that we could all learn from it. It would make a great article for Small Arms Review.