What the Hell is That? Mystery Magazines

[ShuckersFan]

I opened a up a Sten parts kit I had bought years ago it had 3 mags in it.  I looked at the mags and they are not Sten and I have no idea what they are.  They are .45acp 40 rd straight sticks.  two are labeled 10-20-30-40 down the spine the other has same but in Arabic numerals. 

Thanks!

Edited December 17, 2024 by ShuckersFan
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[StrangeRanger]

Are you certain that they are .45 mags?

They appear to be Beretta 9mm mags for the 38A, 38/42, 38/44 and 38/49 SMGs

[ShuckersFan]

That makes sense.  They looked really wide and I loaded a few .45 apc into it.  Any idea who they sold Arabic marked mags to?

[Syncytium1]

I agree.  They look like Beretta 38 series mags to me.

[Bravo Whiskey]

Beretta 38

[StrangeRanger]

2 hours ago, ShuckersFan said:

 Any idea who they sold Arabic marked mags to?

Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Syria and Yemen all used them in one way or another, sometimes gov't troops, sometimes rebel paramilitaries, often both

Take your pick (the most likely is probably Libya)

[ShuckersFan]

27 minutes ago, StrangeRanger said:

Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Syria and Yemen all used them in one way or another, sometimes gov't troops, sometimes rebel paramilitaries, often both

Take your pick (the most likely is probably Libya)

Very cool, thanks for all the info.

[MP5]

Might be a cool idea to have a forum or sub forum titled "Help ID this mag?"

[MPFiveO]

Once upon a time that endeavor was embarked upon...

"Over the course of 40 years, myself along with William Vallerand, Herbie Woodend, Bob Faris, and others, designed an identification system that we referred to as the “Vallerand Magazine ID System.” There were about 4000 magazines for machine guns and rifles that we photographed and measured, hoping to someday put this into a forensic system. A description of the system is available on www.smallarmsreview.com. Just search the Archives section for “Vallerand” to find a link."

https://sadefensejournal.com/the-vallerand-magazine-identification-guide/

I've yet to see any publication of this work but it would be a worthy investment for serious collectors.

Oh, and the above identifications are correct, Beretta Type 38 magazines. I picked up one recently at a gun shop from a bargain bin for my reference collection. Mine is most likely a Model 12 series. They are all interchangeable however. Beretta went by the rule "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" So many other manufacturers could be successful using this rule... But new and improved seems to sell better than tried and proven.

[Uncle Zeek]

12 minutes ago, MPFiveO said:

 So many other manufacturers could be successful using this rule... But new and improved seems to sell better than tried and proven.

Well, many seem to want to boost profit margins by making customers buy proprietary magazines.  Look at the example of MAC  altering the perfectly good M-3 magazine so that customers would have to buy Cobray magazines for their M10 machineguns.

[smdub]

On 12/21/2024 at 1:38 PM, Uncle Zeek said:

Well, many seem to want to boost profit margins by making customers buy proprietary magazines.  Look at the example of MAC  altering the perfectly good M-3 magazine so that customers would have to buy Cobray magazines for their M10 machineguns.

The M3 mag catch location wouldn't work on a M10.  Would have been under the web of your thumb.  Plus the M10, trying to be inexpensive, is a lot cheaper to manufacture than the M3 spring/catch setup.

I see examples like this as ways to NOT proliferate custom mags.  Colt just moved the mag catch on Uzi mags for their SMG.  Way better than inventing something new.

Edited December 23, 2024 by smdub

[ShuckersFan]

Here are the markings on the Arabic mag.  I only noticed the numbers earlier.

[MPFiveO]

On 12/23/2024 at 9:14 AM, smdub said:

The M3 mag catch location wouldn't work on a M10.  Would have been under the web of your thumb.  Plus the M10, trying to be inexpensive, is a lot cheaper to manufacture than the M3 spring/catch setup.

I believe what Uncle Zeek was pointing out was that they removed a small amount of material from the back of the M3 magazine to make it work with the MAC catch versus making a slightly shorter catch to use unmodified M3 magazines. Many also forget that the MAC magwell has internal over insertion stops requiring the M3 magazine stops to be milled down slightly.

It's easy to see where a M3 Grease Gun catch system wouldn't work with the MAC, but they could have easily made the gun use unmodified M3 Grease Gun magazines.

My personal gripe is with the obscure Volunteer Commando MK45 which uses... (sigh)  modified Thompson magazines. Why they didn't position the catch where an unmodified magazine would work is beyond me. But, they elongated the hole so that the magazine will no longer function in a Thompson because it will sit too low. Spare magazines for the Volunteer are unobtainable and once a Thompson magazine is modified there's no going back without welding and it's just not worth it. Factory Volunteer magazines have a large V stamped on the front of the body indicating it has been modified and fitted to their firearm. The one I have shoots great if I feed it specially loaded ammo that has a maximum overall length. Ammo with bullets seated deeper absolutely will not feed. They aren't great guns but I like figuring out how to make things work and in this case I did.

[smdub]

Making mags feed perfectly as you've discovered is a lot of work.  Back in the day surplus M3, Thompson, Sten, Uzi, etc mags were basically free.  If you had to modify one to make your new design run well, so be it.  Agreed, would have be nice to use them unmodified.  Maybe they initially tried? Cheaper to modify a mag slightly than change finished gun tooling.

People only complain about modifying mags now that the donor mags have gone up in price

The alternative (like the Ingram M6) is that the mags are 100% proprietary and stupid rare/expensive.  I'll take a simple mod to a mil surplus mag anyday.  I have some Thompson mags that I was cutting the rear spine off to fit the M6.