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New U.S. Supreme Court opinion on bump stocks and ATF again exceeds it authority


JPFAZ

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Bump stocks are no more a machine gun then a model 37 shotgun and ATF has exceeded their authority again.

"Moreover, a semiautomatic rifle with a bump stock is indistinguish- able from the Ithaca Model 37 shotgun, a weapon the ATF concedes cannot fire multiple shots “automatically.” ATF responds that a shooter is less physically involved with operating a bump-stock equipped rifle than operating the Model 37. It explains that once a shooter pulls the rifle’s trigger a single time, the bump stock harnesses the firearm’s recoil energy in a continuous back-and-forth cycle that allows the shooter to attain continuous firing. But, even if one aspect of a weapon’s operation could be seen as “automatic,” that would not mean the weapon “shoots . . . automatically more than one shot . . . by a single function of the trigger.” §5845(b) (emphasis added). Pp. 14–17."

Below is a link to the full published opinion:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-976_e29g.pdf

 

My guess would be that the FRT will be the next area to be explored by the court.

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Trump banned bump stocks

reagan banned full auto post 86

bush 2 said he'd sigh the awb renewal if it made it to his desk

bush 1 debounced the nra and canceled his membership 

 

Are republicans friends of the 2nd amendment?

 

Edited by huggytree
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Trump is solidly pro 2a as evidenced by his CCW permit and family members fully engaged in serious firearms ownership.   It has been pretty much know the EO would be overturned, but it cut dems off at the pass.  Had he not done it at the time they would have certainly passed some ugly legislation on everything else costing a lot of political capital one way or another.  That EO shut them up immediately.

Realistically this was another calculated Trump win knowing who he put on the court.   The Bushes are average democrats. 

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8 hours ago, JPFAZ said:

 

My guess would be that the FRT will be the next area to be explored by the court.

I Just read through it.  There's a footnote to the effect that the ruling excludes "mechanical bumpstocks" like the FRT.   I'll read it again in a couple days when I'm not so tired.

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35 minutes ago, Uncle Zeek said:

I Just read through it.  There's a footnote to the effect that the ruling excludes "mechanical bumpstocks" like the FRT.   I'll read it again in a couple days when I'm not so tired.

Yes i saw that in footnote 1:

"

1 Some bump stocks (called mechanical bump stocks) rely on an inter-nal spring, rather than forward pressure from the shooter’s nontrigger hand, to force the rifle and trigger forward after recoil. These devices are not at issue in this case."

 

However, that does not take away that later issue (FRT) on a different appeal and I would argue at best that was mere dicta in an attempt to placate the concurring/dissenting opinions as there was no standing in this case for that issue anyway. 

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18 hours ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

Trump is solidly pro 2a as evidenced by his CCW permit and family members fully engaged in serious firearms ownership.   It has been pretty much know the EO would be overturned, but it cut dems off at the pass.  Had he not done it at the time they would have certainly passed some ugly legislation on everything else costing a lot of political capital one way or another.  That EO shut them up immediately.

Realistically this was another calculated Trump win knowing who he put on the court.   The Bushes are average democrats. 


Thats an interesting take. Seems plausible. 

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On 6/14/2024 at 7:27 PM, johnsonlmg41 said:

Trump is solidly pro 2a as evidenced by his CCW permit and family members fully engaged in serious firearms ownership.   It has been pretty much know the EO would be overturned, but it cut dems off at the pass.  Had he not done it at the time they would have certainly passed some ugly legislation on everything else costing a lot of political capital one way or another.  That EO shut them up immediately.

Realistically this was another calculated Trump win knowing who he put on the court.   The Bushes are average democrats. 

I disagree with this thinking. A ccw permit does not mean your pro 2a it means you got a permit to carry a gun… lots of anti gun people have those permits an even own guns lol.

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On 6/14/2024 at 8:27 PM, johnsonlmg41 said:

Trump is solidly pro 2a as evidenced by his CCW permit and family members fully engaged in serious firearms ownership.   It has been pretty much know the EO would be overturned, but it cut dems off at the pass.  Had he not done it at the time they would have certainly passed some ugly legislation on everything else costing a lot of political capital one way or another.  That EO shut them up immediately.

Realistically this was another calculated Trump win knowing who he put on the court.   The Bushes are average democrats. 

that is some revisionist history for sure.  Like Thumpy said, Trump only had a CCW because he was rich/famous/powerful/connected and lived in NYC.  Same with his kids. That used to be the only way to get one as a NYC resident.   Trump is no friend of the 2A.  Trump had to appear pro 2A to get that vote.  Just like he changed from pro-choice (which he was his entire adult life) until he needed the Evangelical vote.  

At least the Dems are honest about their intentions.  The Bush's have been hunters/shooters for decades.  

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1 hour ago, United Surplus Arms said:

that is some revisionist history for sure.  Like Thumpy said, Trump only had a CCW because he was rich/famous/powerful/connected and lived in NYC.  Same with his kids. That used to be the only way to get one as a NYC resident.   Trump is no friend of the 2A.  Trump had to appear pro 2A to get that vote.  Just like he changed from pro-choice (which he was his entire adult life) until he needed the Evangelical vote.  

At least the Dems are honest about their intentions.  The Bush's have been hunters/shooters for decades.  

The majority of hunters are typically not 2A supporters and the Bushes are classic examples of that mentality, just like double barrel Joe.   While Trump himself is not into firearms, the family is, and like the Kennedy's, trusted family members who have experience in firearms are the "go to" people when a subject comes up for advice.   You can speculate that it's revisionist history, but if you had the background info I have you might have a different take?   Or you might be a NRA double barrel Joe supporter and trap shooter?  

"The Dems are honest about their intentions"   Seriously?   Democrat socialists do not have CCW permits, they have people they expect to do those things for them.  You could count the Bushes, Romneys, etc.  in that same group.   You might find George out bird hunting with Cheney, but you'll never hear of them at a  range shooting belt feds.

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These politicians (all of them) are people who tell you something to further their personal gain. Rules apply to little people - not to them. Power, wealth and ego are all that matter. I do have to say that all of the laws that restrict MGs and "black rifle" imports and restrictions have come from Republicans, not Democrats. Those bans were seen as affecting only "fringe" interests.  The "2A friendly" Elmer Fudd crowd and soccer Moms are "okay" with the bans and they don't affect many votes. 

I would say that the Democrats do exactly as they campaign. I'm always more ticked off at those who vote for them than I am the actual Dim politicians. The politicians are just following through with the policies that they campaigned on.  The Republicans are too dang self-adsorbed to get their "battle plan" coordinated and have proven 100% ineffective pushing ANY of their canpaign topics when given the chance. Or maybe, just maybe, they're just full of poop and really don't want to follow through on campaigned rhetoric? Maybe they're really all in it together - the left and right arms of the same swamp creature?  I don't know, but historically, the Republicans have been responsible for implementing most of the negative gun legislation. Our "friends"...  I don't need friends like that.

 

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On 6/14/2024 at 9:45 PM, JPFAZ said:

Yes i saw that in footnote 1:

"

1 Some bump stocks (called mechanical bump stocks) rely on an inter-nal spring, rather than forward pressure from the shooter’s nontrigger hand, to force the rifle and trigger forward after recoil. These devices are not at issue in this case."

 

However, that does not take away that later issue (FRT) on a different appeal and I would argue at best that was mere dicta in an attempt to placate the concurring/dissenting opinions as there was no standing in this case for that issue anyway. 

The mechanical bump stocks they are referring to are the Akins Accelerator. It was a bump stock designed for the Ruger 10/22 that used springs to automatically return the action forward where it bumped the shooters finger for each shot. Because there was no manual influence on the firearm like there is with a bump stock they deemed the combination of parts to be a machine gun. Without the springs it was an ordinary bump stock, so owners were told to surrender their springs.

There are videos of the AA on the internet. Very interesting concept and for a very short time it was approved by the ATF as not a machine gun conversion device. But, they later changed their mind.

The FRT is different than but similar to the bump stock in theory. Firing a gun with an FRT trigger is the same as any other semi auto firearm. When the shot moves the bolt carrier back the hammer is cocked. Where it differs is that there's no disconnecter. Instead there's a bump that the hammer pushes down on driving the trigger forward to the reset position. Once the trigger has been reset a locking bar locks the trigger in place so that it cannot be pulled until the locking bar releases it. As the bolt carrier moves forward and the bolt is locked in battery, the tail of the carrier releases the bar blocking the trigger so that it can be pulled again.

All of the above actions are completely mechanical and require no manual influence by the shooter unlike a bump stock. Where the ATF believes it's a machine gun is the fact that maintaining pressure on the trigger causes the firearm to shoot rapidly, but in reality the shooter is pulling the trigger rapidly, much like the world famous shooter Jerry M. While the ATF has not determined Jerry's finger to be a machine gun, they did determine the FRT to be one because they didn't follow the letter of the law. Pulling the trigger is a single function. Just because the trigger automatically resets and has a built-in safety so that the trigger can't be pulled again until the action is safely in battery shouldn't matter. The fact is, with an FRT the trigger is being physically pulled for each shot.

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On 6/14/2024 at 6:31 PM, huggytree said:

Trump banned bump stocks

reagan banned full auto post 86

bush 2 said he'd sigh the awb renewal if it made it to his desk

bush 1 debounced the nra and canceled his membership 

 

Are republicans friends of the 2nd amendment?

 

 

They are politicians. In general, politicians are not friends of freedom/2A. There are very few limited exemptions. Maybe Thomas Massie. 

 

If you think democrats are friends of the 2nd amendment, then you are an exponentially bigger fool than those thinking Republicans are. 

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