07/02 question

[Jtm35a2]

So what do you do with failed attempts at post sample builds? Are they trash/parts kits? Or is it allowed to try and restore it back to title 1 status?

Edited June 12, 2024 by Jtm35a2

[SGT Fish]

Well whatever you registered would need destroyed if you give up on it. 

I suppose you could send it out to someone more competent to have it fixed

Edited June 12, 2024 by SGT Fish

[Jtm35a2]

Maybe I got bad information from my ioi. But she said don’t form 2 anything till it’s up and running. Her position was that the atf doesn’t want the register to be cluttered with non operational/junk items. 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Jtm35a2

[Firelizzard]

She is correct, don't do a form 2 until after your project is done. You are telling the atf you made something, not asking permission to build something!

[Jtm35a2]

9 minutes ago, Firelizzard said:

She is correct, don't do a form 2 until after your project is done. You are telling the atf you made something, not asking permission to build something!

So if the accepted theory is that you don’t do a form 2 until it’s done, what about projects that fail? Let’s give the question some kind of context:

So your drill jig sucks and/or moves, then you end up with cross eyed holes in your ak receiver. No chance that it’s ever going to work. Can you weld it up and return it to title 1 status? Maybe give it another go once you find a better process, if ever….

Maybe ak is a poor example because everyone will just say spend $150 on a new receiver….

Substitute AK for some other firearm that is much more valuable and no receivers are available….

Edited June 13, 2024 by Jtm35a2

[Firelizzard]

Yes, fill the holes and start over. The form 2 doesn't get submitted till the project is done.

[Jtm35a2]

Just now, Firelizzard said:

Yes, fill the holes and start over. The form 2 doesn't get submitted till the project is done.

Could i fill the holes and say screw it, and leave it alone?

[Firelizzard]

Yes. At that point there are no holes to put a sear in, just like before you started.

[Jtm35a2]

Just wanted to make sure i wasn’t falling into the “once a mg, always a mg” category. Even though it wasn’t a functional mg. 

[MPFiveO]

1 hour ago, Jtm35a2 said:

Just wanted to make sure i wasn’t falling into the “once a mg, always a mg” category. Even though it wasn’t a functional mg. 

If it wasn't a functional machine gun then it was never a machine gun. So, the "once" rule would not apply. Had you succeeded, then yes, it would be a machine gun. Some might imply that the attempt itself would make it a machine gun but I don't think it would apply to a licensed manufacturer as much as it would an unlicensed individual, in the case of an unlawful conversion. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one on TV.

I am trying to wrap my head around converting a rare or expensive receiver though. Most use an inexpensive AR lower or AK to do a postie because they're cheap. In the case of something rare and expensive like a M249S one would just register a conversion part and not the uber expensive semi auto host.

[JECIII]

21 hours ago, Jtm35a2 said:

Maybe I got bad information from my ioi. But she said don’t form 2 anything till it’s up and running. Her position was that the atf doesn’t want the register to be cluttered with non operational/junk items. 

I was told same by my ioi.  I had a glock sear that I registered . It broke so sent in destruction letter inadvertently stating was destroyed by malfunction in final testing.   

They removed it but sent me a letter stating not to register until fully mfg which includes any testing.  

I'm still like wtf doesn't match-up to the 24 hr law.  So I still register as soon as complete the first major operation of the build.  Fuck them I'd rather they be pissed I registered something to be cautious vs not registering something.  I'm going to always error on the side of caution.

There not the ones that get accused of an unregistered MG if the auditors come in.  register early cya

[Ryo]

Sometimes I build in batches.. I register but I'm 90% sure it will run. 

Now that I've heard this, some batches coming up is tricky and I won't know until I test fire it. 

[JoshNC]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:54 PM, Jtm35a2 said:

So if the accepted theory is that you don’t do a form 2 until it’s done, what about projects that fail? Let’s give the question some kind of context:

So your drill jig sucks and/or moves, then you end up with cross eyed holes in your ak receiver. No chance that it’s ever going to work. Can you weld it up and return it to title 1 status? Maybe give it another go once you find a better process, if ever….

Maybe ak is a poor example because everyone will just say spend $150 on a new receiver….

Substitute AK for some other firearm that is much more valuable and no receivers are available….

According to Volmer v. Higgins (ATF), you absolutely can weld up the hole and return it to t1 status.

[JECIII]

Ask who was it legacy stag arms.or some.major.mfg.somewhere they busted they found a box of semi finished semi recievers they wrote them up for.