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Acquaintance wants to LEGALLY get rid of contraband Beretta 38/42 bring-back


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So I met an old codger, pushing 80 now, whose uncle sneaked a Beretta SMG back home at the end of WWII. Eventually this old boy received it as a present from his uncle. I am not well acquainted with these, but as best I can tell it's a model 38/42.  He was wondering what to do with it, and a mutual friend told him I was knowledgeable about NFA guns and wouldn't nark on him. He mostly is looking to keep his kids out of trouble after he snuffs it, but he was also hoping he could register it and sell it for some extra money. I told him that ship sailed in 1968 and he wouldn't ever be able to sell it as-is, even to a licensed Class III dealer.

As I see it, he has only a handful of options:

  • Keep it and kick the can down the road to let his kids sort it out after he's gone. Unlikely he'd ever be caught, as he has sense enough not to shoot it or sell it, but still seems rather high on the risk vs. reward ratio.
  • Call the cops to collect it and tell them he just found it in an old duffel bag from his uncle. The town he lives in is small and he knows the chief of police well, so I don't think he'd be taking any risk, but I'm not certain about that at all. The days when I implicitly trusted the police to do the right thing are far in the past. Is it dangerous to do this?
  • Disassemble it, torch the receiver and throw the pieces in the river, and get a dummy receiver to rebuild it as a non-gun replica. He's a Fudd and not really a gun collector so I don't think this appeals to him much, and I don't even know if you can buy such a thing, but maybe it would have some value to someone who collects Berettas or WWII weapons, or maybe he could sell it to a museum.
  • Torch the receiver and part out the rest here or on GunJoker. I figured this would be the easiest and most lucrative way for him to dispose of it, and would also provide some karmic satisfaction to see it cannibalized to keep legally-owned rigs running. My understanding is that he'd have to cut it with an acetylene cutting torch into three different pieces to be legal - a hacksaw or band saw wouldn't be considered complete destruction. Has anyone ever done this? Should the pieces of the receiver be discarded or can they be sold with the parts kit? If so, how should they be cut so as to be 100% legal while still preserving maximum value for someone who wants to reweld it into a postie? Or does anyone actually do that?

Thanks for any advice you have.

P.S. For sure, don't bother asking me to hook you up for an illegal sale!  Neither he nor I will participate.

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He can legally strip it, cut the receiver and sell the parts.

The receiver must be torch cut in 3 places; the cuts must each remove at least 1/4" of metal. Because this thing was never registered, it might be unwise to sell the chunks along with all the other pieces as a parts kit.  Probably best to trash them.  This shows a pretty decent template for the cuts: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/974439694

On a newly imported parts kit the barrel must also be cut.  I don't know whether or not he is required to cut the barrel in this case. Since it's a parts kit of unknown provenance with no receiver it may be a different situation.  Perhaps someone else can answer that.  Depending on condition an uncut barrel can be valuable

If he decides on this route please post the kit here.  I for one would be interested as would several others

EDIT:

Just got a PM from an SOT acquaintance.  He said that on a gun already in the US the barrel does not need to be cut

Edited by StrangeRanger
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3 hours ago, StrangeRanger said:
1 hour ago, M38A1-Josh said:

My recommendation would be to completely disassemble it, torch cut the receiver as required (NOT the barrel), and sell all of it as a parts kit together. That is my humble opinion.

 

As was said before, torch cutting is what the ATF requires when a parts set is imported.  Therefore it does not apply to this gun.  ATF would appreciate you toch cutting the receiver but it is not required.

If it were me I would saw cut the receiver and separate the halves.  (different zip codes?)  Sell the halves separately.  Allow an SOT to buy both halves in distinct transactions.

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Additionally if he’d prefer to leave it in tact/doesn’t care about the money, he could donate it to his local PD (you mentioned he knew the chief). Which would register it on a form 10.

There’s a gent on AR15.com in the NFA section that’s a police officer in LA and is always happy to accept non papered orphaned MG’s. 
 

Once your local chief had it on a form 10, they could Form 5 it to the aforementioned gent’s PD in LA (if for whatever reason the local PD didn’t want it).

 

Finally if you could find a government museum (even if it was just a town) they could also accept it on a form 10. 

 

Good luck!-Mathew 

 

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12 hours ago, Navgunner said:

He can form5 it to museum.  J.M. Davis Arms & Historical Museum or Cody Firearms Museum would love to have it and help with the process as I’m sure they’ve done it many times 

Ian at Forgotten Weapons dis a great video on this.

 

Private museums cannot take in unregistered MG's.  Everything at Cody is transferable or dummy gun.  They don't even hold an SOT.

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14 hours ago, StrangeRanger said:

Because this thing was never registered, it might be unwise to sell the chunks along with all the other pieces as a parts kit.  Probably best to trash them.


Do you have any basis for this advice in the regs or relevant case law ? Because I don’t see how they can stop you selling the demilled fragments. I would read the rules as saying these scraps are no longer a machine gun, or any kind of gun, once the cuts are complete, and therefore of no concern to ATF.   But I’m not a lawyer and I am here asking for advice, so thanks for your input.

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10 hours ago, HHollow said:

As was said before, torch cutting is what the ATF requires when a parts set is imported.  Therefore it does not apply to this gun.  ATF would appreciate you toch cutting the receiver but it is not required.

If it were me I would saw cut the receiver and separate the halves.  (different zip codes?)  Sell the halves separately.  Allow an SOT to buy both halves in distinct transactions.


I am skeptical. Can’t you get wrecked for constructive possession with saw-cut parts?

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7 hours ago, Christof Stehpinkler said:


Do you have any basis for this advice in the regs or relevant case law ? Because I don’t see how they can stop you selling the demilled fragments. I would read the rules as saying these scraps are no longer a machine gun, or any kind of gun, once the cuts are complete, and therefore of no concern to ATF.   But I’m not a lawyer and I am here asking for advice, so thanks for your input.

Since one of the chunks will contain the S/N they provide evidence that one may have been in possession of an unregistered MG.  ATF is unlikely to pursue the matter but why take a chance

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11 hours ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

Private museums cannot take in unregistered MG's.  Everything at Cody is transferable or dummy gun.  They don't even hold an SOT.

That’s not my understanding but out of an abundance of caution I have removed the verbiage from my post but left Ian’s video. J.M. Davis is a short drive from my house. I’ll try and ask the curator and report back. 

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Don't forget it's been in the country 80 years and no government agencies even know about it. There is no rush to do anything. If it was to become a parts kit (minus the entire receiver) who is to say where it came from. Would be impossible to prove. Seems as if he want's to donate intact, sounds like a good idea to me. Follow the well documented advice and just do it. Hate to see history cut up.

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Torch cutting is an import requirement as others have mentioned. If already in the US, it does not need to be torch cut. Removing a central segment by saw cutting is fine. And as others have said, the barrel does not need to be cut. Pull all parts, pull the barrel, cut the receiver in two locations in a non-critical area, crush the removed central segment, sell or keep the parts.

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