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Law letter problems?


Bill in Bama

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I don't have first hand experience, but what I have heard is the ATF is denying law letter transfers if (in their sole determination) the machine gun in question is not suitable for law enforcement.  For example, they (the ATF) is saying that a Sten is not a machine gun that any law enforcement agency would realistically use in the line of duty.  Or a belt-fed is not something that they need (an exception might be for a Texas DPS "Gunboat" that patrols the Rio Grande).  But if your local small town Chief of Police wanted an MG-34 or M-60, they are coming under a LOT of scrutiny, and will likely be denied.

Edited by shiklg
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Well, two of mine would probably qualify, MP5 and Uzi, but I guess they would look long and hard at an AK47.  So, basically, we're screwed if we have Class III weapons deemed "unsuitable" by ATF, since they will never approve a transfer and thus we simply must surrender them upon dissolving our business?

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If you dissolve your business then they become "No Law Letter" guns and you'd be good to go.  You could also turn them back into parts kits.  Its been a long time coming and as an FFL/SOT I don't see one thing wrong with them actually questioning why small town PD's are asking for demos of vintage machine guns or belt fed weapons.  People have played fast and loose for too many years and now they are crying or getting out of the game as the rules are being enforced and they dont like it...that or they have had their fun and want to cash in while the market is big.

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I'm not sure what gives the ATF the legal authority to decide what guns are suitable for police use/need and which ones are not.  I guess it's like everything else they do, they just make up the rules as they go, and these rules change from day to day, and from person to person within the agency.

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One could argue that common sense comes to mind as to what is and what is not a suitable police/duty weapon.  You can sit there and complain that it isn't fair, but let me ask you this-are you REALLY using these for police demos or are you crying that your play toy paperwork is now coming under the scrutiny that it needed from the start?

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Oh here we go, I guess I’ll put on my “anti gun” hat because I have a different opinion on the subject.
 

I support the Second Amendment but I don’t support people who play the system for greed, stupidity or personal gain (take your pick) good Ol’ Wayne in my book is the same level as those I just mentioned. Many of the laws on the books now or being proposed were because people were greedy or stupid, only worried about personal gain and not the gun community as a whole. 

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I just don't undetermined where you get off acting as the arbiter of FFL etiquette and gun laws. 

 

Yet you previously argued about how bad P80 frame kits are, then I see your ads selling complete MACHINEGUN parts kits with 80% receivers to unlicensed individuals. 

 

I guess I just don't understand you. 

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What 80% receiver(s) am I sellilng?  I have an Uzi FLAT that I am selling and thats far from 80%  A flat requires a hell of a lot more than a drill press or aligning pins and mixing up some polymer to pour into a mold.

Selling parts kits are just that PARTS KITS. They are not a fully funcitonal weapons.  Wanna look at other people who are selling complete parts kits as well? 

I can have my own opinions on things and they are just that, my own.  I guess it comes from dealing with people in the firearms industry for over 20 years and seeing how things work.  I can also have my opinion on post samples due to the abuse of the system and now people are having to reap what they have sown.  I'm not the arbiter of FFL's, just a guy who is sick and tired of the bull$hit games that people have played to land us here.  People keep trying to push that line when it comes to finding a way around the rules and then cry "I know my rights" when they get called out on it.  Braces are the latest example of this-we all knew what they were and going to be used for, a work around the SBR/SBS rules, and then for some reason everyone is shocked and shaken when ATF says "hey now, this isn't what it was presented as so no more"  Same with the whole "law letter" post sample thing-its supposed to be used for getting guns in for PD's to demo and evaluate if they would work for duty use, NOT for an FFL/SOT to have his buddy sign off on so they can go play on the weekends.  I have NEVER asked for a law letter and NEVER needed one so there is that too.  Guess I'm a manufacturer who actually knows how to make things and not just put AR-15 lowers together.

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They’re called “law enforcement sales samples” for a reason: they exist to allow dealers to provide law agencies with trial guns to see if they meet their requirements. They are not intended to allow MG fanboys to add neat stuff to their collections.

No PD in it’s right mind is going to arm their department with WWII era guns or any other gun not in current manufacture.  That leaves various Colts, HKs, Sigs, B&Ts and the like.  Sorry about your MP40s, STens and Madsens. Uzis are probably borderline.  There no longer in production but there’s a ton of them out there, they’re damned near unbreakable and parts are, for now at least, readily available.

The issue of belt-feds is a bit different.  There are a lot of PDs that have or at least think they have a genuine need a sustained-fire weapon for their SWAT unit.  Again there have been obvious abuses which have led to the current restrictions.  None of these PDs have any need for a Ma Deuce, and MGs no longer in production don’t pass the sniff test either.  Current belt feds like the M240B, M249 and the Various HKs should be allowed on a case by case basis but they are not.  This is entirely due to people playing fast and loose with the rules.

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