Thumpy Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 Here it is boys free form 1’s the next 120 days I guess gettem while it’s hot lol. https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) This sucks. Those of us who played by the rules, filed a Form 1 and put real shoulder stocks on our PDWs had to pay a $200 tax, The people who thought they were being clever and sticking it to the ATF by circumventing the rules now get to register theirs for free? It may be expeditious but it's not right. This influx should add another 6 months or so to the e-file waiting queue Edited January 14, 2023 by StrangeRanger added image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davises Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 I have a lot of SBRs…and a lot of non SBRS that I planned to SBR at some point…if everyone were to file a form 1 for every gun one had as part of this amnesty that would really clog up the system. what about bare receivers…I have a lot of those too… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autogun Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 I believe its going to be challenged in the courts and there will be a stay before the 120 days it will be tied up for a while in the courts. ATF had already put out letters saying it was legal now they are changing there tone. Not gonna look go for their case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted January 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 6 hours ago, StrangeRanger said: This sucks. Those of us who played by the rules, filed a Form 1 and put real shoulder stocks on our PDWs had to pay a $200 tax, The people who thought they were being clever and sticking it to the ATF by circumventing the rules now get to register theirs for free? It may be expeditious but it's not right. This influx should add another 6 months or so to the e-file waiting queue Well our founding fathers didn’t play by the rules… an they got a whole new country because of it lol so maybe there is something to learn from the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettBaker Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 Well, I've always wanted to put a vertical grip on my M&P-15/22P...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 6 hours ago, Thumpy said: Well our founding fathers didn’t play by the rules… an they got a whole new country because of it lol so maybe there is something to learn from the past! There's a more recent lesson about defying the government c. 1861-65. Substantially different outcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 11 hours ago, davises said: I have a lot of SBRs…and a lot of non SBRS that I planned to SBR at some point…if everyone were to file a form 1 for every gun one had as part of this amnesty that would really clog up the system. what about bare receivers…I have a lot of those too… cant do receiver, just sbrs with braces already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davises Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 hours ago, taylorwso said: cant do receiver, just sbrs with braces already Not that I would, as I think in the long run who knows how the wind will blow…I.e. someone will later decide that braced pistols should not have been allowed to be registered as SBRs without paying the tax…but I imagine there will be a lot folks who’s receivers suddenly identify as braced pistols. After all, if we are supposed to accept that boys can decide they are girls and girls can decide they are boys, why couldn’t a receiver identify as a full fledged braced pistol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 13 hours ago, davises said: why couldn’t a receiver identify as a full fledged braced pistol? because the atf specifically said they cant. Now if you slap a brace on them, well there you go it all makes no sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 As I understand it if the original paperwork filed by the manufacturer lists the type of firearm as a rifle receiver, then no matter what you do to it, it remains a rifle. Put on a short barrel and remove the stock and it does not become a pistol, it becomes an unregistered SBR. If the original paperwork lists it as a pistol then you can remove the brace and it becomes a pistol again; or you can add a brace/stock and paper it as an SBR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_san Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, StrangeRanger said: As I understand it if the original paperwork filed by the manufacturer lists the type of firearm as a rifle receiver, then no matter what you do to it, it remains a rifle. Put on a short barrel and remove the stock and it does not become a pistol, it becomes an unregistered SBR. If the original paperwork lists it as a pistol then you can remove the brace and it becomes a pistol again; or you can add a brace/stock and paper it as an SBR There's no such thing as a "rifle" or "pistol" receiver, until a receiver is built with an upper, it's an "other" - receiver. If you build it with a stock, then it's a rifle if you build it without one or with a brace then it's a pistol, end of. Edited January 15, 2023 by b_san Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHollow Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 hour ago, StrangeRanger said: As I understand it if the original paperwork filed by the manufacturer lists the type of firearm as a rifle receiver, then no matter what you do to it, it remains a rifle. Put on a short barrel and remove the stock and it does not become a pistol, it becomes an unregistered SBR. If the original paperwork lists it as a pistol then you can remove the brace and it becomes a pistol again; or you can add a brace/stock and paper it as an SBR I see where this might go. Someone slaps a brace on a rifle and files the freebie form 1. ATF denies and comes to collect the rifle instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 hour ago, b_san said: There's no such thing as a "rifle" or "pistol" receiver, until a receiver is built with an upper, it's an "other" - receiver. If you build it with a stock, then it's a rifle if you build it without one or with a brace then it's a pistol, end of. So the original manufacturer doesn't specify the type of firearm? Then why did ATF get their panties in a bunch when Thompson Center started making carbine barrel and shoulder stock kits for the Contender? The main thrust of the suit was the possibility of making an SBR. There was series of lawsuits back and forth and SCOTUS eventually found in T/C's favor because of some vague wording with regards to "make" vs. "assemble" so T/C was not required to pay the $200 Form 2 tax on such receivers. Also and largely forgotten in the intervening 30 years is that ATF actually required T/C to serialize any receiver sold with a carbine kit with a letter C appended to the S/N in an attempt to prevent someone assembling them as a handgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 21 hours ago, StrangeRanger said: So the original manufacturer doesn't specify the type of firearm? Then why did ATF get their panties in a bunch they do specify but it can be a "receiver/frame" which is neither a pistol or rifle. The ATF tried to argue their BS about being able to make a sbr just because you have a short barrel with stock in the same package. as long as you can get whatever config into something "legal" then its fine, either pistol or rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/14/2023 at 5:39 PM, StrangeRanger said: There's a more recent lesson about defying the government c. 1861-65. Substantially different outcome Lol I Disagree. The south continue doing what they wanted for a very long time after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethose Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 Correction. 120 days from the day it is submitted to the federal registry. NOT 120 days from Jan 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPinFL Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 So what is the drop dead date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_san Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) On 1/16/2023 at 1:49 PM, taylorwso said: they do specify but it can be a "receiver/frame" which is neither a pistol or rifle. Not only "can" it be listed as a Frame or Receiver but it "must" be listed that way in your bound book or you'll get dinged by the IOI during an inspection. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-should-licensee-record-their-records-transfer-frame-or-receiver-unlicensed-purchaser A licensee must record the type of firearm as a “frame” or “receiver” (as applicable) in the acquisition and disposition (A&D) record and on the ATF Form 4473. The licensee must also include in any record the make, model, and serial number of the frame or receiver. As a frame or receiver is neither a shotgun nor a rifle, a licensee is prohibited from selling or delivering a frame or receiver to any individual the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than 21 years of age. [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(5), 27 CFR 478 .11] Edited January 20, 2023 by b_san Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 I searched the ATF ruling https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/factoringcriteriaforfirearmswithattachedstabilizingbracespdf/download but am unclear on these things: Once the firearm is registered according to the guidelines of the 120 day amnesty, may the firearm have a stock on it instead of a brace? If it's an SBR, my understanding any temporary changes, barrel length or in this case replacing the "illegal" arm brace would be legal provided it could be returned to the registered configuration. Is engraving of the maker's name city and state required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorwso Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 7:46 AM, Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC said: I searched the ATF ruling https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/factoringcriteriaforfirearmswithattachedstabilizingbracespdf/download but am unclear on these things: Once the firearm is registered according to the guidelines of the 120 day amnesty, may the firearm have a stock on it instead of a brace? If it's an SBR, my understanding any temporary changes, barrel length or in this case replacing the "illegal" arm brace would be legal provided it could be returned to the registered configuration. Is engraving of the maker's name city and state required? yes its a sbr IAW their wording, and it allowed with a pending form. no engraving hence the pictures of the serial number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBD Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 dang i just form 3 some………. So your telling me i can form 1 some stuff and don’t have to mess it up with engraving? Also i can put a real stock and tango down?? I thought there was some thing in there if a ffl took something in that was improperly marked the ffl was going to have to fix it or some nonsense. I feel like my dad in 1968…..registration? their coming to get’em boys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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