Like New M2 HB Heavy Machine Gun

[Daniel Curley]

Manufacturer: Ramo Corp. Nashville Tenn. Under Browning Pat.      

Gun has fired less than 300 rounds in its lifetime. (262)  I have full History 

Included in Sale:

Three Barrels: The original Barrel, one new barrel never fired Stellite in original canvas carry bag, one used I was going to use for Tracers or other.

Two Pintle's, one for tripod, One for Vehicle or antiaircraft Cradle. Adapter for using Cradle on tripod. Feeler Gauges for head space & timing.

Two new broken case Extractors. Extra set of new springs (for Gun) extra firing pins. Linking & Delinking machine (ten rounds at a time) WWll

Extra new Links (a bunch). TM's. AND plus, or minus 3100 rounds of new Ammo. NO RELOADS, Late U.S. surplus. 

$ 72,500.00   

Edited January 17 by Daniel Curley
Price drop

[dspdsp]

In addition to items listed in description, does the tripod and ammo belt box shown in photos also come with gun?  Thanks

[Daniel Curley]

Yes, to all you have asked about. The ammo is in 50 Cal. GI cans 100 rounds per belt, a few cans are not belted. Most of the belted has a tracer every 5th round and some have AP. Since we are talking, GUNBUGS has brought it to my attention that it is not a 1943 because RAMO did not supply M2's during the war. When I bought it, I was told it was. After going down a Rabbit Hole that had no bottom and calling Buffalo Bill Museum and talking Danny the curator. and the Rock Island armory and giving them the serial # it seems no one has the dates

 when it was built. The guns that have been sold over the years have had higher numbers than mine. Some by 1000 or more. I had a Master Sgt. from the armory come over and show me how to take it apart for cleaning, his comment was that this was a brand new gun. I asked how he knew this, and he told me that all the guns he worked on fell apart and mine had to be pulled apart by hand  because of no wear on any of them. I guess no one kept track of #'s or at least no one I can find. I was going to call the ATF and see if they knew anything, but people told me (let sleeping dogs lie). So there you have it! if you have any more  questions don't hesitate to text.    DJ

 

[johnsonlmg41]

So what you have is a side plate gun made maybe in 1983? Or later.  Parts may be older?  You have it priced much higher than original WW2 guns are bringing even at high priced auctions.  Think about cutting your price in half?  The side plate was made before May 1986, but the gun could have been put together anytime between the late 80's and last week.    You would need to file a FOIA request in writing with ATF to find out when the side plate was registered, but that has no bearing on when the gun was assembled.  Think about a year to find that out.

Someone sold you a story.

[BRMCII]

That these repro M2.50s are mistaken to be WWII manufactured examples is one of those falsehoods that will always be around. RAMO, INC was started in 1977, and is credited with being the first to revive the production of M2 .50 BMGs since WWII. Whether that is true, I'll take it in faith. As noted above, the parts used to assemble the guns were surplus from the WWII manufacture of the guns and other sources. Pony Maples and an associate got the business off the ground and over many years, produced and sold many excellent "registered sideplates" and complete .30 and .50 BMGs.  
There is bound to be an archive of the date-of-manufacture/serial numbers of RAMO and Group MGs somewhere. These repro MGs will become C+R eligible before long and ATF will need to know their dates of manufacture to determine their C+R transfer eligibility.
Group Industries manufactured, registered and assembled complete U.S. BARs for the MG shooting hobby and collector industry which also have been falsely represented as the "last" wartime production of the gun with ridiculous prices asked for them. This falsehood doesn't seem to go away either. FWIW
 

 

 

[Daniel Curley]

As I understand it RAMO did in fact build some factory guns in the beginning. We think this was one of them, it has a lower Serial # than the others that have been sold. I think this one is too perfect to have been put together by somebody that bought a side plate. That said, I brought it up as an honest mistake on my part not knowing that the person that sold the gun to me didn't know what he was talking about. In answer to the price thing, it functions perfectly, it's almost flawless, and I have video of the test firing when I first bought it. I will put it on the site if you like. This is not a gun only sale, most are. The price represents the amount of money that I have spent putting a package together Complete. I did this for me as a collector.  PS I think this could be a 78-79 but not sure. However I am sure of when it was sold to the collector that had it before me. 1980

If I cut the price in half, it would not even pay for itself.!

[JECIII]

That's what happens when you overpay for a story.  I agree this price is higher than a documented wwwii gun of origional mfg.  I remember the days of stacks of 50 side plates at the creek. 3500 bucks a piece.  Wish I had a time machine

Agreed even if a factory ramo its worth about half.  Plus Ramo were meant to be shooter guns from the beginning not collectable war guns. 

[MP5]

Would/should the sideplate be marked RAMO - somewhere on it - it is was actually a RAMO mfg sideplate gun?

Edited December 1, 2022 by MP5

[bigbore]

13 hours ago, Daniel Curley said:

As I understand it RAMO did in fact build some factory guns in the beginning. We think this was one of them, it has a lower Serial # than the others that have been sold. I think this one is too perfect to have been put together by somebody that bought a side plate. That said, I brought it up as an honest mistake on my part not knowing that the person that sold the gun to me didn't know what he was talking about. In answer to the price thing, it functions perfectly, it's almost flawless, and I have video of the test firing when I first bought it. I will put it on the site if you like. This is not a gun only sale, most are. The price represents the amount of money that I have spent putting a package together Complete. I did this for me as a collector.  PS I think this could be a 78-79 but not sure. However I am sure of when it was sold to the collector that had it before me. 1980

If I cut the price in half, it would not even pay for itself.!

To help manage expectations OOW just sold a pristine RAMO M2 with a spare barrel, tripod/T&E, and 1500rds for $50K delivered on a form 3.

[bradhe]

Have shopped for most of this recently.  Assuming it is a minty Ramo sideplate gun pretty full prices would be:  gun $50k, tripod $2.5k, Cradle $0.5k?, 2 extra barrels $2k, ammo at $2.50/rd $7.7k, misc bits $0.5k.  Total $62.7k in my view.  Honestly it is not half, but it isn't $90k either.  I am guessing needs a Form 4 transfer to a dealer which is another detriment.  Sorry.

[Daniel Curley]

TOUGH CROWD 

[Labanaktis]

Depends on how you look at it. Seems like they are trying to help you with current market expectations, not shit on your ad. Nice job by the way! Pictures look great. I would suggest posting a pic of the side plate. 
 

Matt

[bradhe]

Yes, sorry, trying to be helpful.  Most people on this board are pretty knowledgeable about recent transactions (or will get knowledgeable if serious about a gun of this magnitude).  You might try the auction houses.  Sometime aggressive things happen there, but not sure what you would net after the fees.  You will also do better to break it up and sell the pieces.

[Bd_p98]

Couple of thoughts: 

1. I recently bought a C&R M2 and I have to agree with the pricing comments here. Based on my price and research they are accurate.

2. I applaud the OP for posting it and graciously receiving feedback. It is not easy sometimes but we are all better off by being honest with each other. Daniel Curley has been exemplary in taking all the feedback and processing it. 

3. Kinda an extension of #2 above, I greatly appreciate the blunt, not sugar coated feedback that the more experienced members of this community provide. I have no idea how old some of them are but too many are passing away and with them incredible friendships, knowledge and experience!

Edited December 1, 2022 by Bd_p98

[Mac attack]

I have a never worked on arrival Ramo, sent it off to a reputable? 50 depot only to have it come back inop still.... even did a facetime setup with said depot and still would not work.  Does anyone have a good M2 guy that can accomodate working on one in the near future?

[Daniel Curley]

I appreciate very much your thoughts and answers and that I need to make a decision. The first thing I am going to do is take that damn 1943 off the Ad. the second thing is figure out what to do about the price. The one thing I don't want to do is break everything up and have to sell parts. I wanted to sell it with everything someone would need to shoot it, have fun with it, or show it, and not worry about having to go out and find something they didn't have. The only thing I don't have is a T&E. I never could figure out what good they were outside of WWI in the trenches. I am working on this and will come to a decision soon, Thanks DJ

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Daniel Curley

[BPinFL]

9 hours ago, Mac attack said:

I have a never worked on arrival Ramo, sent it off to a reputable? 50 depot only to have it come back inop still.... even did a facetime setup with said depot and still would not work.  Does anyone have a good M2 guy that can accomodate working on one in the near future?

Call Nathan at JNC.  Don't know his schedule, but I bet he can get it going.

Not trying to poach this post, just help another Emma G out.  Lots of good info in this chain. BTW, My Ramo M2 runs like a sewing machine!

[BRMCII]

10 hours ago, Daniel Curley said:

I appreciate very much your thoughts and answers and that I need to make a decision. The first thing I am going to do is take that damn 1943 off the Ad. the second thing is figure out what to do about the price. The one thing I don't want to do is break everything up and have to sell parts. I wanted to sell it with everything someone would need to shoot it, have fun with it, or show it, and not worry about having to go out and find something they didn't have. The only thing I don't have is trunnion. I never could figure out what good they were outside of WWI in the trenches. I am working on this and will come to a decision soon, Thanks DJ

 

As suggested, put it up for auction as you are in a good position to use that service for the following reason: high value will eliminate seller's fee and apparently you paid a very high value for it which will reduce your capital gains. The prospective number of bidders dwarfs the internet sites and reaches many bidders who only buy from auctions, and many who have a lot more money to spend. RIA and Morphy's by far attract the most moths and Poulin's is competetive. FWIW

[Mac attack]

sorry to hijack but it seemed everyone that was gonna post about this gun did and I really needed this group to help me..... thank you very much!

 

BTW I have had trouble with Morphy's auctions.

 

[BRMCII]

10 hours ago, Mac attack said:

"BTW I have had trouble with Morphy's auctions."

Simple rule to observe when using many auction houses: caveat emptor!

10 hours ago, Mac attack said:

 

 

[Rory]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:34 PM, Daniel Curley said:

The only thing I don't have is trunnion. I never could figure out what good they were outside of WWI in the trenches. I am working on this and will come to a decision soon, Thanks DJ

 

You do have a trunion. It’s part of your gun. Front section of receiver. The barrel slides through it and the heavy hunk of steel at the front with the holes(barrel support) screws on to it 

[Rory]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:26 PM, Mac attack said:

I have a never worked on arrival Ramo, sent it off to a reputable? 50 depot only to have it come back inop still.... even did a facetime setup with said depot and still would not work.  Does anyone have a good M2 guy that can accomodate working on one in the near future?

I’m interested in your non working plate if you want to get ride of a headache. 
 

 

[Daniel Curley]

1 hour ago, Rory said:

You do have a trunion. It’s part of your gun. Front section of receiver. The barrel slides through it and the heavy hunk of steel at the front with the holes(barrel support) screws on to it 

Sorry Rory, I meant T&E  Having a hard time with the headache as you put it.

1 hour ago, Rory said:

I’m interested in your non working plate if you want to get ride of a headache. 
 

 

I appreciate very much your thoughts and answers and that I need to make a decision. The first thing I am going to do is take that damn 1943 off the Ad. the second thing is figure out what to do about the price. The one thing I don't want to do is break everything up and have to sell parts. I wanted to sell it with everything someone would need to shoot it, have fun with it, or show it, and not worry about having to go out and find something they didn't have. The only thing I don't have is a T&E I never could figure out what good they were outside of WWI in the trenches. I am working on this and will come to a decision soon, Thanks DJ

 

[mstrmstr]

Buy it now or the price will INCREASE... This a normal way for NFA's.. Argue and you lose.   You have see prices escalate better than  the stock market and it is TAX free .. I  have seen this for the last 40 years.  Yes , I had bought m11-9's from  SWD for 150 bucks, yep,  like 30 of them..   .. get with the program or lose again.  I have heard the lament.. The truth is it has been and will be a wonderful investment you can play with.    Put one in your portfolio as it is now legal to do so. NOTE TAX FREE. 

[Daniel Curley]

I like that, but alas I don't think it's going to work this time. I have noted the Tax free

Thank you for the come back. we will talk again. DJ

[wcm]

I'm just new here and watching. Ma deuce is a dream. This has been a super informative thread by a lot of well meaning people. No bashing, rudeness etc. Thank you to everyone who posted something that added to it. 

[rbbrown505]

I’m in for it at like 60k

[rhouston8]

Technically it’s not “ tax free”.

IRS regs on collectibles/assets, bought and sold have capital gains/losses that are required by law to be reported. But of course usually no cost basis or sales price is sent to the IRS…so like many things on your return you are “trusted “ to report it accordingly. 
 

of course nobody ( other than perhaps dealers) do this in reality. 
 

but legally it’s not “ tax free”.

just to expand a bit on that topic. 

[rhouston8]

Also just bc mg transferables typically go up in value over time ….doesn’t mean you can’t screw yourself by overpaying in the present time. 
 

i overpaid for an AK47 7 yrs ago…& it’s just exceeded my purchase price within the last 2 yrs. IE , after my purchase I saw many then listed over the next few yrs  for less than what I paid for mine. My mistake. Not a good feeling to overpay. 
 

some MGs appreciate faster than others. 
i remember AM180s stagnating for a decade in price. I’ve seen 1919s stagnate for years. Even M2HBs to a lesser degree. Jap guns have had their periods of stagnation as well. Stens have appreciated only so-so over the last 15 yrs. 
 

whereas AR15s , HK sears, RDIAS, Uzi, MP5s, M60s have gone full on crazy appreciation. 
 

im sure some with squabble about the details of the above but these are things I have seen since 1999 to the present. 
 

as far as pre ‘99 …& def pre ‘86 prices and rises …well I didn’t participate in any of that so I don’t know. 
 

In general …roughly speaking since ‘99 I’ve experienced about a 5-7% per yr price appreciation. With my highest % guns depending mostly on getting a decent purchase price + whatever market spirits existed since. 

[ironriver]

Agree now its looking like FNCs, MAC guns and AC556 are the next big movers , some of which has already happened just IMO but who knows

[rhouston8]

very true. the recent FNC and MAC price increases have been impressive indeed.

[Mac attack]

BRMCII,  I hope you understand I was talking about Morphy's service and not they actual item.

 

vis a vis not caveat emptor...... based on multiple different transactions and tried to give the benefit of the doubt the first few times.

I appreciate the helpfulness of this post and topics brought up and I am trying to pass on my knowledge and experience FWIW.

 

Thanks to all for the messages both on this post itself and the DM's

[Daniel Curley]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:26 AM, wcm said:

I'm just new here and watching. Ma deuce is a dream. This has been a super informative thread by a lot of well meaning people. No bashing, rudeness etc. Thank you to everyone who posted something that added to it. 

Thank you, this site is a lot more civil I guess than most. This is the first site that I have been on, and I would guess that David keeps it that way. I am sure that I will make some friends here also. I have owned Class III for about 55 years and as you can see, still have a lot to learn. DJ

[ironriver]

It can be a tough crowd lol but as a dealer/collector myself its understandable. We are buying and selling toys (lets face it when it comes down to it) that cost as much as a nice car in many cases as much as small houses. So your buyer is a much different person ... typically wealthy or at least well off, intelligent and buying for as much as investment  as a cool range toy. So price becomes UBER important ... and the right price even more so, just like when buying a house. The only rare exception would be like a Bill Gates type dude who can HAS to have a certain gun and spending 100k is like buying a carton of milk. Anyway, wish you the best of luck and BEAUTIFUL gun BTW. Merry Christmas as well!!

Edited December 17, 2022 by ironriver