Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 Yesterday, I had a BATFE criminal investigator call me wanting information about someone who called me interested in a particular firearm. I remembered the call because of the type of firearm but didn't sell it to the person who called me. A month later, someone bought the same firearm and I told the agent that. Because of my statement to him, he wants the information, the form 4473. However, he have any information other than someone called me asking about it and now wants the form of the person who bought the same type of firearm a month later. I told him to request a trace but he got pushy and said, ATF owns all form 4473, I can drive to your business and get the information anytime I have the desire to do so. My question is, I thought ATF agents can't conduct "fishing" expeditions unless they have probable cause that a firearm was used in a crime and if so they request specifically the make, model, serial number. I realize if I don't provide the information, I'll likely get an ATF inspection. Does anyone have information on what we are required to do vs not? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JECIII Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 Yes dude he will just come and use his 1 yearly inspectiong go through the 4473 take a copy or pic and get what he wants. Meantime I'm sure he will fu@k you on you audit. The. You will be on a list and get one every year to make your life miserable. I agree it feels crappy but your resistance is futile as the borg used to say. Most likely they are not after you probably a straw sale or criminal obtaining a gun through a relative or friend. I wouldn't sweat it just give it to him. He's going to get it either way question is if you want to piss them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 What’s illegal about this? I’m sure that we all buy similar guns? What’s so odd about a guy calling looking for a certain gun an then an entire month later some one else buys one / transferring one? If that’s a crime I believe almost all of us would be guilty of some one else buying our dream gun or a gun we thought we wanted an decided against etc. also situations like this is why I hate how people say “the atf is an industry partner”…. They are not a partner they are nothing but tyrants with a little man complex in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelflood Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 4:26 AM, JECIII said: Yes dude he will just come and use his 1 yearly inspectiong go through the 4473 take a copy or pic and get what he wants. Meantime I'm sure he will fu@k you on you audit. The. You will be on a list and get one every year to make your life miserable. I agree it feels crappy but your resistance is futile as the borg used to say. Most likely they are not after you probably a straw sale or criminal obtaining a gun through a relative or friend. I wouldn't sweat it just give it to him. He's going to get it either way question is if you want to piss them off. How do you confirm it's ATF on the line? I've just never heard how that is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 16 hours ago, Steelflood said: How do you confirm it's ATF on the line? I've just never heard how that is done. They usually provide an ATF.GOV e-mail they want the info sent to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelflood Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Colt Chopper said: They usually provide an ATF.GOV e-mail they want the info sent to. Makes sense, thanks. I got a call once from a 'county office' that asked me personal questions. I answered them, sometimes incorrectly. After a few weeks I called the office and asked about my case. And they told me they never alert people that there is a 'case'. I called they day they were gonna come by and it made things easier since they knew I was set up, the information they had matched the incorrect information I gave the first caller. Turned out my wife had a stalker and was trying to make us miserable. That's why I'm so interested in how government people identify themselves when they call you. Edited November 16, 2022 by Steelflood Added one more sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
United Surplus Arms Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 so many scams these days, can't be too careful. some good advice I heard - if someone calls you and says they are law enforcement/government employee - ask for their name and badge/id number, agency, and phone number. then tell them you need to call them back in a few minutes. Then google their agency and call THAT (local office) number (not the one they gave you), and ask to speak to that person. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob1 Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 13 minutes ago, shiklg said: so many scams these days, can't be too careful. some good advice I heard - if someone calls you and says they are law enforcement/government employee - ask for their name and badge/id number, agency, and phone number. then tell them you need to call them back in a few minutes. Then google their agency and call THAT (local office) number (not the one they gave you), and ask to speak to that person. Sage advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelflood Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, rob1 said: Sage advice. It was more obvious what to do when a scammer called my elderly mom and said her electricity was being shut off for non payment, this created a panic in her. I straightened it out by having her log into the power company account. And that settled it. Knowing feds will give you a fed site and email...now I know. I asked because we're trained to tell anyone who calls from the IRS to F off. And from this post it was clear that was not an option when a different alphabet agency calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob1 Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 There is always an option to not say a word. Police can lie to you and its legal. An officer of the court not necessarily. Any police contact me I invoke an attorney every time. Search for a video called " don't talk to police " on your favorite search engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 Except for the fact that if you are an SOT then BATF already has you by the balls and failure to co-operate will only result in BATF twisting them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob1 Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 5 hours ago, StrangeRanger said: Except for the fact that if you are an SOT then BATF already has you by the balls and failure to co-operate will only result in BATF twisting them He said criminal investigator not an IOI. No need to go at it solo. Always have an attorney present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.L. Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) Back in the early Sturm days about 1991/2 I received a call from someone identifying themselves as Agent so and so from ATF. I'm thinking this is another b.s call, but that day I hesitated to say what I normally do to scammers. (I had just bought 5 weapons in one purchase from someone that used to be very active on Sturm at that time. His nickname on Sturm was Hoot. If you were around then you know who I'm talking about. I know Buddy will remember:) Anyway... He sent the weapons to my dealer Did the 4473's, that was that. I had friends back then that like to play games on the phone identifying themselves as ATF or FBI when they called. Normally I responded with a go boink ur sister/mother type response, they were busted, that was that. For whatever reason that day I did not use my trademark response. Good thing too because it really was ATF. Not that I'm afraid of these jackboot a-holes. I just didn't need theses a-holes tearing my place apart. I digress: ***Any of you that were around on Sturm back then might remember my story.*** An 8hr ATF/Prince William County/FBI soft raid on my home searching for non papered C3 thanks to wife #3. Yep... Same one that poisoned me 2X and got away with it. Turns out this guy that sold me this stuff was NOT a dealer and had been selling guns as a business without an FFl. After the ATF conversation I opened the beautiful M6 survival weapon in the lot and low and behold I found loaded .22 hornet rounds in the stock! PLUS along with the High Standard derringer in .22 mag, there was this pretty neat leather shoot through "wallet" holster, also stamped High Standard! Yep it was one of those. Never said a thing to ATF. R.L. Edited November 17, 2022 by R.L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelflood Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 19 hours ago, rob1 said: There is always an option to not say a word. Police can lie to you and its legal. An officer of the court not necessarily. Any police contact me I invoke an attorney every time. Search for a video called " don't talk to police " on your favorite search engine. The stalker had the nerve to call me when I was the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC Posted November 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 11/16/2022 at 12:11 PM, Colt Chopper said: They usually provide an ATF.GOV e-mail they want the info sent to. I called their local office, gave their name and phone number and confirmed legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNBUGS Posted November 26, 2022 Report Share Posted November 26, 2022 I doubt they would ask for the info unless they thought that something was sketchy. Someone has done something stupid enough to get their attention. That's usually how it works with cops. We should police ourselves. It's easier that way. I've been served with an ATF search warrant before. Long story. I'm still here to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNBUGS Posted November 26, 2022 Report Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 11/17/2022 at 11:25 AM, R.L. said: Never said a thing to ATF. You just posted it on the internet........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.L. Posted November 27, 2022 Report Share Posted November 27, 2022 The older I get, the less I care. R.L. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted November 28, 2022 Report Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 4:05 AM, Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC said: A month later, someone bought the same firearm and I told the agent that. Never volunteer information you don't need to give them... That's where you made a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JnC Manufacturing Posted December 4, 2022 Report Share Posted December 4, 2022 (edited) Wonder why they are busting ballz ??? Edited December 4, 2022 by JnC Manufacturing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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