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Question about a Colt SP1 converted/registered as a machine gun


SilentOperator

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Hey guys,

I am kind of new to the Machine guns, not as much to NFA items as I have a few cans, SBRs... and I have an SOT. The other day I came across an AR15 Colt SP1 that has been converted some time ago and registered on Form 4. I see the prices on genuine M16s in the $30 to 40k price tags; what would be a fair price on the rifle in question? I saw Ruben's website showing a couple converted AR15s in nice condition I wonder if similar high $20k price would be considerable for this SP1? 

Thanks for your time in advance,

Lev


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Edited by SilentOperator
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1 hour ago, Youlen Enterprises Inc. said:

$25k quick sale…$27-$29k top shelf.

Thank you Youlen, the lower definitely has seen some better days. Seems it was painted at some point and portions of the paintjob still visible. It's not a jewel but it's a machine gun LOL. If I understand correctly, private to private has to go through paper F4 with one $200 tax payment(not 2) which will be close to 12 months wait? Appreciate your time

Edited by SilentOperator
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Just now, SilentOperator said:

Thanks for your time as well. Even in "rough" condition it would bring that much? 

Lol I mean I don’t think it’s in “rough” condition from the looks of it to me… you can always try to offer less but if he wants more he will get it. Offering to much under fair market may offend him an then he tells you kick rocks. 

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$25k for an SP1 conversion gun? That seems kinda high but I haven’t been watching the conversion M16 that much. I would have thought the M16 conversion market be on the lower side of $25k not the higher side. 

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One of my first questions would be, "Who done the conversion?"  Is it a quality conversion?

And take a good look at the registration paperwork. Sometimes, things are not what they appear, pays to be cautious. 

These are all factors that help to determine a fair value.

Good Luck !!!

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5 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

$25k for an SP1 conversion gun? That seems kinda high but I haven’t been watching the conversion M16 that much. I would have thought the M16 conversion market be on the lower side of $25k not the higher side. 

5 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

$25k for an SP1 conversion gun? That seems kinda high but I haven’t been watching the conversion M16 that much. I would have thought the M16 conversion market be on the lower side of $25k not the higher side. 

Everything is high now.. I'm still a bit shocked how high it has gotten but I have seen SP1s sold around that price range. 

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6 hours ago, Colt Chopper said:

One of my first questions would be, "Who done the conversion?"  Is it a quality conversion?

And take a good look at the registration paperwork. Sometimes, things are not what they appear, pays to be cautious. 

These are all factors that help to determine a fair value.

Good Luck !!!

Thanks again for a great suggestion. Lower is stamped with a gentleman's name Phoenix, AZ and my search brings up ZERO hits on anything NFA. I will inspect both Form 4s perhaps today but knowing the owner I am confident all is good to go.

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  • 3 months later...

I was in Europe for 2 months, this is just a quick update on the above discussed topic. Purchased both the Mac 11 and the Colt SP1 conversion from the same Gentleman who is also my neighbor. Paperwork was sent in at the end of July, Now the waiting game... I have 2 E-filed silencers in the works filed also in July and what I am hearing is that E-files are now closer to 5-6 months than 90 days. Not in a rush, the cans are in my safe :D 

Hope everyone is doing well,
Lev

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On 7/18/2022 at 12:40 PM, SilentOperator said:

Thanks again for a great suggestion. Lower is stamped with a gentleman's name Phoenix, AZ and my search brings up ZERO hits on anything NFA. I will inspect both Form 4s perhaps today but knowing the owner I am confident all is good to go.

Checked my reference data of transferable DIAS's, lightning links, and registered receivers.

Sounds like a "one-off" registered receiver.

Can you PM me the Name ("HRC") and full SN for my reference data (all information is strictly confidential)?

Thanks.

Tony

Edited by AGG
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1 hour ago, AGG said:

Checked my reference data of transferable DIAS's, lightning links, and registered receivers.

Sounds like a "one-off" registered receiver.

Can you PM me the Name ("HRC") and full SN for my reference data (all information is strictly confidential)?

Thanks.

Tony

Well if that's the norm here, I have no problem sending you info on the 2 weapons...

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  • 4 weeks later...
17 minutes ago, browning1917a1 said:

I paid 25k for a very nice converted SP1 in August. M16's in general seemed to have had a big run up the past few years.

Hard Times Armory conversion?  Yeah.. crazy how much prices went up. I wish I had bought more ahead of time!

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I have an SP1 conversion done by RPB .. I purchased it for $5,000 ( yes many moons ago) .. it is fine.. the upper to lower ( large pin/ small pin) can be a pain, as you need an adapter. I had M60 Joe do a bushing conversion which allows the use of small pin uppers 

Edited by GMANINGA
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2 hours ago, GMANINGA said:

I have an SP1 conversion done by RPB .. I purchased it for $5,000 ( yes many moons ago) .. it is fine.. the upper to lower ( large pin/ small pin) can be a pain, as you need an adapter. I had M60 Joe do a bushing conversion which allows the use of small pin uppers 

That conversion must have been many many many moons ago too.  I wanted M60 Joe to work on mine.. but the company he recommended costed too much and they even recommended not to do it unless something gets damage/crack.

This was my solution.. Not perfect but it works. Can be a pain sometimes.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/16/2022 at 1:03 PM, SilentOperator said:

Absolutely and I came here for guidance on a private purchase... not SOT related issues. Me being a first year SOT has nothing to do with why I am here... Thanks.

If you are an SOT and not a Corp then there is no such thing as person to person. When you are doing transfers to or from a private party you are always an SOT and that gun will be expected to be in your A&D book.

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18 minutes ago, JOELCRAMER said:

If you are an SOT and not a Corp then there is no such thing as person to person. When you are doing transfers to or from a private party you are always an SOT and that gun will be expected to be in your A&D book.

Why should it be in my A&D if it's between me and my neighbor and NOT my LLC? Can you point me to a written regulation where it describes that an SOT cannot purchase weapons for his own collection please? Anywho my SOT will expire long before the stamps are approved.

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Are you planning on putting it under your FFL business or your own name. I think that is the tricky part if your doing it to the business since you have a SOT. 

Private to SOT is faster than private to private by a few months. 

Going to your name is much simpler and don't have to deal with going out of business type stuff where you need to make another transfer (unless your a sole proprietor).

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Appreciate your question and input Ryo!!!

Paper Form 4 has been submitted as an individual purchaser 6 months ago on both NFA items, I am not involving my FFL business in the transaction. Perfectly fine to do a person to person transaction in Arizona, I am not sure what Joel is talking about. 

Edited by SilentOperator
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18 hours ago, SilentOperator said:

Why should it be in my A&D if it's between me and my neighbor and NOT my LLC? Can you point me to a written regulation where it describes that an SOT cannot purchase weapons for his own collection please? Anywho my SOT will expire long before the stamps are approved.

I did not know you were a Corp. In that case you can separate your private and your business. That would not be the case if you were a sole proprietor. I guess I did not make that very clear. Sorry about that.

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I totally could see how Joel could have gotten confused if reading quick. I was doing the same thing. LOL.

Mentioning you were a SOT threw us for a loop.  Well I hope you enjoy your SP1. Mine has been pretty reliable.

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hey silent op....

 

feel good about sending SNs to AGG/ Tony. He has more serial number gun info than anyone on planet earth as best I can tell. Esp HKs. He's good to go- so don't worry about it.

 

Also...I have a converted SP1 like yours. I also use than takedown pin/hole adapter. Current FMV... I'd say $25k would sell within a few days. $30k would not. $22k would sell within hours of posting. 

 

Welcome .

 

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