SilentOperator Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 (edited) Hey guys, I am kind of new to the Machine guns, not as much to NFA items as I have a few cans, SBRs... and I have an SOT. The other day I came across an AR15 Colt SP1 that has been converted some time ago and registered on Form 4. I see the prices on genuine M16s in the $30 to 40k price tags; what would be a fair price on the rifle in question? I saw Ruben's website showing a couple converted AR15s in nice condition I wonder if similar high $20k price would be considerable for this SP1? Thanks for your time in advance, Lev Edited December 21, 2022 by SilentOperator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youlen Enterprises Inc. Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 $25k quick sale…$27-$29k top shelf. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Youlen Enterprises Inc. said: $25k quick sale…$27-$29k top shelf. Thank you Youlen, the lower definitely has seen some better days. Seems it was painted at some point and portions of the paintjob still visible. It's not a jewel but it's a machine gun LOL. If I understand correctly, private to private has to go through paper F4 with one $200 tax payment(not 2) which will be close to 12 months wait? Appreciate your time Edited July 16, 2022 by SilentOperator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 Paper form 4 to dealer took me 6 months recently. If he’s in the same state as you could do form 4 from him to you… would be looking at 12-13 from what I’ve seen recently. Also value that at 25ish in todays market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Thumpy said: Also value that at 25ish in todays market. Thanks for your time as well. Even in "rough" condition it would bring that much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpy Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 Just now, SilentOperator said: Thanks for your time as well. Even in "rough" condition it would bring that much? Lol I mean I don’t think it’s in “rough” condition from the looks of it to me… you can always try to offer less but if he wants more he will get it. Offering to much under fair market may offend him an then he tells you kick rocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 The rough part is the lower with paint showing in some areas, scratches on upper but yeah I agree it's not in bad shape. Will make an offer tomorrow and see where we end up. My first potential FA rifle and I m really excited about it LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortbarrelpete Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 You ARE or you AREN'T an SOT? You stated you are but your post reads like you aren't, just trying to clarify things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 If things work out it will be a private to private transfer, but yeah I am since July 1st. My posts read I am not? Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 My handle is actually my FFL in AZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 9 hours ago, SilentOperator said: My handle is actually my FFL in AZ. Welcome to the business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Ryo said: Welcome to the business. Thanks and appreciate all the help I got here. Looks like a Cobray M11 also became available, now on to negotiations LOL. Edited July 16, 2022 by SilentOperator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 $25k for an SP1 conversion gun? That seems kinda high but I haven’t been watching the conversion M16 that much. I would have thought the M16 conversion market be on the lower side of $25k not the higher side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 One of my first questions would be, "Who done the conversion?" Is it a quality conversion? And take a good look at the registration paperwork. Sometimes, things are not what they appear, pays to be cautious. These are all factors that help to determine a fair value. Good Luck !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Got Uzi said: $25k for an SP1 conversion gun? That seems kinda high but I haven’t been watching the conversion M16 that much. I would have thought the M16 conversion market be on the lower side of $25k not the higher side. 5 hours ago, Got Uzi said: $25k for an SP1 conversion gun? That seems kinda high but I haven’t been watching the conversion M16 that much. I would have thought the M16 conversion market be on the lower side of $25k not the higher side. Everything is high now.. I'm still a bit shocked how high it has gotten but I have seen SP1s sold around that price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 I was told to check out a fellow member's website who operates out of Miami. Seems that his prices are usually at market value and a lot of SOTs use him for setting value. We are talking really high $20's on similar weapons. Made my offer to the gentleman now waiting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 6 hours ago, Colt Chopper said: One of my first questions would be, "Who done the conversion?" Is it a quality conversion? And take a good look at the registration paperwork. Sometimes, things are not what they appear, pays to be cautious. These are all factors that help to determine a fair value. Good Luck !!! Thanks again for a great suggestion. Lower is stamped with a gentleman's name Phoenix, AZ and my search brings up ZERO hits on anything NFA. I will inspect both Form 4s perhaps today but knowing the owner I am confident all is good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflejunky Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 David Spiwak has one on his website around 29k I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 19, 2022 Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 Hi SilentOperator, The SP1 is likely a Form 1 gun. It is not uncommon to find the makers information on the firearm. Enjoy the hunt, Grasshopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 Yes, it was built on an F1, transfered on an F4 which I got a copy of. Both paperworks are in order, seller had them for 30 years in his safe!!! Waiting on my offer response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted July 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 On 7/18/2022 at 11:56 AM, riflejunky said: David Spiwak has one on his website around 29k I believe. Yeah I saw that. Nice specimen NIB condition aparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted November 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 I was in Europe for 2 months, this is just a quick update on the above discussed topic. Purchased both the Mac 11 and the Colt SP1 conversion from the same Gentleman who is also my neighbor. Paperwork was sent in at the end of July, Now the waiting game... I have 2 E-filed silencers in the works filed also in July and what I am hearing is that E-files are now closer to 5-6 months than 90 days. Not in a rush, the cans are in my safe Hope everyone is doing well, Lev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGG Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) On 7/18/2022 at 12:40 PM, SilentOperator said: Thanks again for a great suggestion. Lower is stamped with a gentleman's name Phoenix, AZ and my search brings up ZERO hits on anything NFA. I will inspect both Form 4s perhaps today but knowing the owner I am confident all is good to go. Checked my reference data of transferable DIAS's, lightning links, and registered receivers. Sounds like a "one-off" registered receiver. Can you PM me the Name ("HRC") and full SN for my reference data (all information is strictly confidential)? Thanks. Tony Edited November 21, 2022 by AGG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted November 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 hour ago, AGG said: Checked my reference data of transferable DIAS's, lightning links, and registered receivers. Sounds like a "one-off" registered receiver. Can you PM me the Name ("HRC") and full SN for my reference data (all information is strictly confidential)? Thanks. Tony Well if that's the norm here, I have no problem sending you info on the 2 weapons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGG Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 I don't know about the norm, but I do assist members with answers on different firearms. I just need the information on the SP1. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOELCRAMER Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 On 7/16/2022 at 2:46 AM, Shortbarrelpete said: You ARE or you AREN'T an SOT? You stated you are but your post reads like you aren't, just trying to clarify things. Sounds like he is an SOT but just does not know what he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted December 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 33 minutes ago, JOELCRAMER said: Sounds like he is an SOT but just does not know what he is doing. Sounds like LOL. What a bunch of assholes on this forum Geeezuuusss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 There are a lot of FFL 07's that don't know what the hell they are doing.. but people have to start somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted December 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ryo said: There are a lot of FFL 07's that don't know what the hell they are doing.. but people have to start somewhere. Absolutely and I came here for guidance on a private purchase... not SOT related issues. Me being a first year SOT has nothing to do with why I am here... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning1917a1 Posted December 18, 2022 Report Share Posted December 18, 2022 I paid 25k for a very nice converted SP1 in August. M16's in general seemed to have had a big run up the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted December 18, 2022 Report Share Posted December 18, 2022 17 minutes ago, browning1917a1 said: I paid 25k for a very nice converted SP1 in August. M16's in general seemed to have had a big run up the past few years. Hard Times Armory conversion? Yeah.. crazy how much prices went up. I wish I had bought more ahead of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greasegunner Posted December 21, 2022 Report Share Posted December 21, 2022 On the painted finish The lower must be stripped (disassembled) and then you should have it cerakoted to match the upper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMANINGA Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) I have an SP1 conversion done by RPB .. I purchased it for $5,000 ( yes many moons ago) .. it is fine.. the upper to lower ( large pin/ small pin) can be a pain, as you need an adapter. I had M60 Joe do a bushing conversion which allows the use of small pin uppers Edited December 23, 2022 by GMANINGA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 2 hours ago, GMANINGA said: I have an SP1 conversion done by RPB .. I purchased it for $5,000 ( yes many moons ago) .. it is fine.. the upper to lower ( large pin/ small pin) can be a pain, as you need an adapter. I had M60 Joe do a bushing conversion which allows the use of small pin uppers That conversion must have been many many many moons ago too. I wanted M60 Joe to work on mine.. but the company he recommended costed too much and they even recommended not to do it unless something gets damage/crack. This was my solution.. Not perfect but it works. Can be a pain sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2412 Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 (edited) I offer both for sale.. Not to rub it in, I bought my first Colt M16 Burst Rifle in 1997 NIB for $ 5800.00 plus the transfer Edited January 2 by Rooster2412 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning1917a1 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 On 12/18/2022 at 1:14 AM, Ryo said: Hard Times Armory conversion? Yeah.. crazy how much prices went up. I wish I had bought more ahead of time! MCC/Guncraft that was located in Dallas, Texas. Nice professional stamping and general conversation with little noticeable wear. I bought it to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOELCRAMER Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 On 12/16/2022 at 1:03 PM, SilentOperator said: Absolutely and I came here for guidance on a private purchase... not SOT related issues. Me being a first year SOT has nothing to do with why I am here... Thanks. If you are an SOT and not a Corp then there is no such thing as person to person. When you are doing transfers to or from a private party you are always an SOT and that gun will be expected to be in your A&D book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 18 minutes ago, JOELCRAMER said: If you are an SOT and not a Corp then there is no such thing as person to person. When you are doing transfers to or from a private party you are always an SOT and that gun will be expected to be in your A&D book. Why should it be in my A&D if it's between me and my neighbor and NOT my LLC? Can you point me to a written regulation where it describes that an SOT cannot purchase weapons for his own collection please? Anywho my SOT will expire long before the stamps are approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Are you planning on putting it under your FFL business or your own name. I think that is the tricky part if your doing it to the business since you have a SOT. Private to SOT is faster than private to private by a few months. Going to your name is much simpler and don't have to deal with going out of business type stuff where you need to make another transfer (unless your a sole proprietor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 (edited) Appreciate your question and input Ryo!!! Paper Form 4 has been submitted as an individual purchaser 6 months ago on both NFA items, I am not involving my FFL business in the transaction. Perfectly fine to do a person to person transaction in Arizona, I am not sure what Joel is talking about. Edited February 6 by SilentOperator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOELCRAMER Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 18 hours ago, SilentOperator said: Why should it be in my A&D if it's between me and my neighbor and NOT my LLC? Can you point me to a written regulation where it describes that an SOT cannot purchase weapons for his own collection please? Anywho my SOT will expire long before the stamps are approved. I did not know you were a Corp. In that case you can separate your private and your business. That would not be the case if you were a sole proprietor. I guess I did not make that very clear. Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 Posted early on that my FFL is my username, Silent Operator LLC... no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 I totally could see how Joel could have gotten confused if reading quick. I was doing the same thing. LOL. Mentioning you were a SOT threw us for a loop. Well I hope you enjoy your SP1. Mine has been pretty reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhouston8 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 hey silent op.... feel good about sending SNs to AGG/ Tony. He has more serial number gun info than anyone on planet earth as best I can tell. Esp HKs. He's good to go- so don't worry about it. Also...I have a converted SP1 like yours. I also use than takedown pin/hole adapter. Current FMV... I'd say $25k would sell within a few days. $30k would not. $22k would sell within hours of posting. Welcome . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOperator Posted February 13 Author Report Share Posted February 13 Thanks for the reply. Serial sent a while ago and appreciate the price update as well!! 6 months and waiting on paper Form 4... Lev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INTLMILCO Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 (edited) I passed on a Hydra-Matic transferable reweld that had a crack in it a couple years ago for $12K. I obviously regret it. Edited February 14 by INTLMILCO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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