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Input Needed: MP40 and Thompson SMG


Sammieiii

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Hey everyone - let me preface by saying that I'm a newb so if this has been asked or these are dumb questions, please bear with me.  I am not asking "which would you get" or "which is a better gun"

I have been looking at an MP40 and a Thompson SMG.  I'm familiar with the ergonomics, weight, etc, with each gun but my question is: from an investment standpoint, does the MP40 or Thompson appreciate faster, or at least hold its value better?  Or are they pretty equivalent?

I sincerely appreciate everyones help and I'm honored to be a part of this forum.

Regards,

Sam

 

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Mp40 tube gun or c&r? Amnesty registered with capture papers? Dragged behind a truck on a gravel road or cherry?

Which Thompson model? Let's just start there. Who made it? Condition? History?

No offense but your question is kind of like "Ford or Chevy?" Gt40 versus ?? Too many variables. 

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With respect, I’d buy the gun you want, investment be dammed. 
 

Inevitably the recent SCOTUS case may lead to a serious challenge against Hughes, under the “Text, History, and Tradition” standard. 
 

(I may throw my hat into the ring if a major org like FPC/GOA want’s to take a Pro bono suit, with me trying to form 1 a new sten tube, while currently having a transferable sten, and seeing the government contort in defending that one is ok but the other made after said date isn’t).

That’s my view at least.

-Mathew

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Thank you guys for the responses.

the two guns in looking at are for sale on the forum - the first is the MP-40 w/ Wilson tubes in “Nice condition” and the second is the W.H. Thompson 1928 Mint with case and A.O. Drum.

I’ve always had an itch for both guns because of their history and the Thompson has always stood out to me but the MP40 is also such a great gun.

unfortunately, I’m not able to look, hold, shoot etc either gun so I truly value what you guys say on this forum.  I love the added history of the Thompson with the old school gangsters and that is the gun I’m beginning to lean towards.

I’d imagine and based on what I can find on the internet, that they are both going to hold their value similarly and you can’t seem to go wrong with either from an investment standpoint.

does anyone have any experience shooting both guns?  Any feedback is much appreciated as I’m trying to learn as much as I can about machine guns - it’s a whole new world from where I can from and I love it.

thank you all in advance for your time and help.

Sammie

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If you are looking at this only as an investment and not for what it is then you might want to reconsider.  Buy the gun to enjoy and shoot, not for it to be a "cash cow" in the future....now should you buy one or the other, shoot it, care for it, and it still goes up in value then that is a different story.

It also comes down to how much you intend to put into your "investment gun"  A "run of the mill" common MP40 or Thompson isn't going to make leaps and bounds for gains with the prices these days-you should have bought in 3-5 years ago.  Each one has its own issues, meaning which one is better/more collectable.  There is a sub culture for the MP40 and original guns bring stupid money.  The same goes for Thompson's...members of the "Colt Cult" pay HUGE money for Colt Thompson and Colt Thompson related items.  Again, looking at one of those as an investments these days seems a little crazy given how the prices have inflated over the past 3-5 years. 

Thant being said, IF you intend to shoot it and enjoy it for something other than to look at like a stock portfolio, you should look at the cost of ownership-ammunition, parts, options/accessories.  The MP40 is cheaper to shoot (9mm) vs the Thompson (45acp) but when it comes to options the Thompson has the MP40 beat.  Parts and mags alone are much cheaper for Thompson's and you can get a 22lr conversion kit for them as well.  Sometimes you have to tune them to your gun, but once you do they are fun.  

Personally, I'd be VERY cautious aout buying anything as an "investment" machine gun at this point as the market is crazy right now.  But in the end its your money and do as you wish.  I can tell you this tho, I've been cashing out some of my NFA items and not having as much tied up in them as I have an uneasy feeling for the future.

 

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7 minutes ago, Got Uzi said:

If you are looking at this only as an investment and not for what it is then you might want to reconsider.  Buy the gun to enjoy and shoot, not for it to be a "cash cow" in the future....now should you buy one or the other, shoot it, care for it, and it still goes up in value then that is a different story.

It also comes down to how much you intend to put into your "investment gun"  A "run of the mill" common MP40 or Thompson isn't going to make leaps and bounds for gains with the prices these days-you should have bought in 3-5 years ago.  Each one has its own issues, meaning which one is better/more collectable.  There is a sub culture for the MP40 and original guns bring stupid money.  The same goes for Thompson's...members of the "Colt Cult" pay HUGE money for Colt Thompson and Colt Thompson related items.  Again, looking at one of those as an investments these days seems a little crazy given how the prices have inflated over the past 3-5 years. 

Thant being said, IF you intend to shoot it and enjoy it for something other than to look at like a stock portfolio, you should look at the cost of ownership-ammunition, parts, options/accessories.  The MP40 is cheaper to shoot (9mm) vs the Thompson (45acp) but when it comes to options the Thompson has the MP40 beat.  Parts and mags alone are much cheaper for Thompson's and you can get a 22lr conversion kit for them as well.  Sometimes you have to tune them to your gun, but once you do they are fun.  

Personally, I'd be VERY cautious aout buying anything as an "investment" machine gun at this point as the market is crazy right now.  But in the end its your money and do as you wish.  I can tell you this tho, I've been cashing out some of my NFA items and not having as much tied up in them as I have an uneasy feeling for the future.

 

This is very helpful a do appreciate the detailed response.

I definitely plan on shooting it.  I’ve got two safes full of guns I don’t shoot so I’m selling those and converting the proceeds to MGs.  I plan to shoot the hell out of the MGs.

I should have clarified this better so my apologies.  When I say investment, I mean more 10-20 years down the road.  I wish I had bought 10 years ago, but I didn’t.  I’m not looking to flip the guns or make a quick buck so it sounds like they are comparable regarding appreciation.  I just want to buy guns that I can get my money out of should I ever need to (hopefully not).  

That’s great to know about the after market parts, too.  That makes a big difference to me.

I sincerely appreciate y’all’s help.  Being a newb to MGs, it’s always nice to get experienced opinions.

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Both are cool looking and iconic. West Hurley Thompsons get a bad rap from the "purist" Thompson crowd.  If you think that Luger or old 1911 collectors are particular and VERY detail oriented, you may reassess that judgement after watching the Thompson crowd. There is an established hierarchy associated with who made the gun, originality of all parts, model of Thompson, etc. 

 

In general the original Colt guns are king of the hill. Only 15000 made. Specifics on original wood furniture, serial number, internals, configuration (with / without Cutts), condition (obviously) and pedigree (historical provenance of past owners) all factor in.  Overstamped, Navy contract 1928 Thimpsons (made from remaining/unsold 1921 Thompsons) are next in the hierarchy.  I like the historical aspect of these more - personal preference. Then there are wartime 1928 lend lease guns, wartime 1928 guns, commercial 1928 guns, wartime M1 and M1A guns, West Hurley guns, and finally bolt conversion guns and rewelds.  Whew. 

I've read that many consider the M1A model the best shooter. Trade off is usually no drums unless the gun has been modified. West Hurley guns supposedly had issues from when they were made. I assume that by now most / all have been brought up to spec (don't recall specifics on what to watch for). 

Of interest, I have read MANY times that Thompson owners are disappointed with how the guns shoot. Others love them. I had one once and it shot fast and was not particularly impressive to me. Cool factor trumps most perceived negatives.

Mp40 has great recognized history (albeit from the "dark side" = WW2 bad guys).  Positives are nice rate of fire (to my taste). Same cool factor.  

Mp40 negatives are wobbly stock (on many), one trick pony, expensive spares, mags that require a loader (a personal pet peeve).  Historical, c&r MP40 guns will always trump "tube guns". There is some highbrow attitude where "tube guns" are almost dismissed by some in the crowd. That element will always exist and you should get what you want and have fun doing so.  

Tough call. If you are drawn to one type then go that way. It seems to me that MP40 guns may sell faster than WH Thompsons but it's hard to gauge in today's market with crazy prices being paid for everything.  Pick one, feed it for a while and when you change your mind then sell it and get the other. By then you may have different goals and "wants". Shoot both if at all possible. Sometimes if you post your location and interest in trying some out, you may find owners in your area who are willing to share. Have fun and good luck!

 

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31 minutes ago, Bwana said:

Both are cool looking and iconic. West Hurley Thompsons get a bad rap from the "purist" Thompson crowd.  If you think that Luger or old 1911 collectors are particular and VERY detail oriented, you may reassess that judgement after watching the Thompson crowd. There is an established hierarchy associated with who made the gun, originality of all parts, model of Thompson, etc. 

 

In general the original Colt guns are king of the hill. Only 15000 made. Specifics on original wood furniture, serial number, internals, configuration (with / without Cutts), condition (obviously) and pedigree (historical provenance of past owners) all factor in.  Overstamped, Navy contract 1928 Thimpsons (made from remaining/unsold 1921 Thompsons) are next in the hierarchy.  I like the historical aspect of these more - personal preference. Then there are wartime 1928 lend lease guns, wartime 1928 guns, commercial 1928 guns, wartime M1 and M1A guns, West Hurley guns, and finally bolt conversion guns and rewelds.  Whew. 

I've read that many consider the M1A model the best shooter. Trade off is usually no drums unless the gun has been modified. West Hurley guns supposedly had issues from when they were made. I assume that by now most / all have been brought up to spec (don't recall specifics on what to watch for). 

Of interest, I have read MANY times that Thompson owners are disappointed with how the guns shoot. Others love them. I had one once and it shot fast and was not particularly impressive to me. Cool factor trumps most perceived negatives.

Mp40 has great recognized history (albeit from the "dark side" = WW2 bad guys).  Positives are nice rate of fire (to my taste). Same cool factor.  

Mp40 negatives are wobbly stock (on many), one trick pony, expensive spares, mags that require a loader (a personal pet peeve).  Historical, c&r MP40 guns will always trump "tube guns". There is some highbrow attitude where "tube guns" are almost dismissed by some in the crowd. That element will always exist and you should get what you want and have fun doing so.  

Tough call. If you are drawn to one type then go that way. It seems to me that MP40 guns may sell faster than WH Thompsons but it's hard to gauge in today's market with crazy prices being paid for everything.  Pick one, feed it for a while and when you change your mind then sell it and get the other. By then you may have different goals and "wants". Shoot both if at all possible. Sometimes if you post your location and interest in trying some out, you may find owners in your area who are willing to share. Have fun and good luck!

 

Wow - this is incredibly helpful.  I'm not in any rush so I want to do this all correctly.  I appreciate you guys explaining the differences in Thompsons and the pros/cons of the MP40/Thompson.  I know information is out there but it seems like every site is more of an opinion, which are all conflicting and personal preference. 

I came from the 1911 world and am getting rid of most of my semi autos and 1911's and bolt actions.  I never shoot them and only use my shotguns to hunt with.  Also, even higher end 1911's don't really hold their value unless they have historical significance, so the MG's really bring something unique to the table for me.  

Being a newb, what are some other SMGs you would recommend looking at that have historical significance and have very good reputations?

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If you want to have something that is a shooter and want to enjoy, then an M1 or M1A1 Thompson is the way to go....unless you want to be able to ballistically masterbate dumping drums.  I have a Colt NAVY and an AOC M1A1 both and I enjoy shooting my M1A1 more as its easier to maintain and less parts to deal with internally.  

If you want something to shoot and hold its vaule, then I'd stick with a real MP40 or Thompson.  Not a WH or tube gun.  It'll cost you a little bit more but in the end you get what you pay for.  

That being said-if you want the best "bang for your buck" and if you can swing it, an HK sear is the way to go as far as having NFA to shoot and enjoy.  One big chunck of cash ($38-$40K) but then the possiblities are endless as far as what you can have to shoot.  Anything from an MP5 to HK belt fed guns can be made full auto with that one piece.  If you break it down, you can have 8-10 host guns and a transferable sear....having less that $6,000 per MG (that math wont hold if you look at HK belt fed guns LOL)  Its something else to consider as well.  

All being said, you are on the right track as to what your thinking is.  Personally having my own Thompson's and having a friend who has an MP40 that I shoot now and then....I prefer the Thompson.  But then again I could be a bit biased as Im the VP of the Thompson Collectors Assn.

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Other subgun options:

WW2  / Older types

Grease guns - very slow rate of fire. Original guns $$, a few rewelds and Medea corp builds. Mags require loader. One trick pony. Lots of history.

Sten guns - Mk2 has easy change barrel. C&r versions higher $$. Lots of tube guns. Crude look by design. Generally run well. Possible mag issues complicate operation at times. Mags require loader. MK5 guns have wooden stock. Mk3 guns have fixed barrel.  Odd sideways mag. One trick pony  Good history.

Sterling - really post WW2 I believe.  A favorite of many. Good slower rate of fire. Great finger load mags (some say the best mags). Can get suppressed version. Odd sideways mag. Very few c&r. Some converted from Sten tubes ("stenlings"). Do your research to see what to get with tube gun variables. Some options give you factory specs, some not as much.  People like so they keep then and price reflects desirability.  One trick pony.

Beretta MP variants - mostly will be c&r. Maybe some rewelds. Getting pricey. Generally highly regarded. Good easy load mags. 38a is the sexy one with heat shield over barrel. Others are more simple but generally same functionality.  Wooden stocks. One trick pony.

Mp30 / mp34 types - "Cadillac of SMG".  Pre-war to early war. Built like tanks. Wooden stock. All that I've seen are c&r. Getting pricey. Odd side mount mag. Easy load mags. Odd clambering but can shoot 9 Luger. Very smooth. Underrated in my opinion. Lots of interesting history. $$

Ww1 German types - MP18, MP27. also includes British Lanchester. Most are c&r. Used to see some Lanchester tube guns / rewelds every so often. Parts get hard to find for some. Lots of history. No personal shooting experience so cannot comment. Original guns are $$. Not what I would consider for extended blasting fun - more collectible. 

Swedish K - 1945 post-war design. Good history. Lots of parts. Built like a tank. Great mags + can run drums. Very reliable. Good rate of fire (to my taste). Mostly tube guns. Very desirable.  Not a lot that come up for sale since owners like / keep them.

Then modern types

Uzi - very popular, reliable, history, good mags. Can get 22 kit. Read up on different conversions / "factory" guns available.  Bolt guns, different types of conversions, new-made guns (Vector / Group). Lots available.  Easy parts. Runs a little choppy for me but you can somewhat adjust the rate of fire. Big cult following.

Mp5 - classic and expensive.  

Sw76 / MK760 - supposed to be based on Swedish K. Only kind of. Higher rate of fire. Good mags. History (SW-76). Sw76 are all c&r factory guns.  Mk760 came as exact copies of sw76. Known issues with sear that wears. Can be fixed and made reliable. One trick ponies.

Macs - several variants, manufacturers, calibers. They are gaining popularity due to aftermarket uppers that really transform the guns into VERY functional subguns and even rifle caliber conversions (poor man's M16). Versatile.  Typical "entry level" gun that is coming into its own with the aftermarket add-ons.

Other tube guns - some copies of the sw76 look good and seem to have good functionality. Some tubes are transformed into Thompson copies, Lahti copies, and new variants that can take drums, etc.  There are some very clever packages available (Brian Poling - BRP if I remember correctly). See what's out there - worth checking.

That's all I've got today. I'm sure that I've overlooked a number of them. Others likley have different opinions. Take a trip to Las Vegas or somewhere that rents them and try out several. Get what you like.

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From an investment point of view.. I look at the headroom value of the firearm on how much can it go up vs popularity.

For example, a Reising 50 is very affordable, but some reason it isn't as popular and the prices are moving up slow. It has a lot of room to move up which is good in the long run.

Also price point is important. I got a WH for a very reasonable price at the time. I think it may have gotten close to double the value only after a few years.. It will never get to the true Thompson prices due numerous reasons. Now do I wish it was a true Thompson.. yes, but I was looking at it at a value perspective that I couldn't pass on.

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I've shot both and I would vote the mp40 from a purely shooter stand point due to the awful ergonomics of the Thompson (any flavor)

I don't know who thought that buttstock was a good choice but it is awful! The wobbly stock on the mp40 is annoying for sure but I bet a guy could shim it or something. There is at least hope of fixing it somehow. I've thought for years about how to fix the Thompson and have never come up with anything. 

I 100% agree with everybody that said try to go shoot some guns(even if it's not those two) I've never gotten to shoot a Swedish k but I am dead set on having one some day because in my head it's the perfect gun...I hope I'm right! 

I also agree with just buy what you want, try to find a good price, but don't wait too long and don't let $1k or whatever stop you! 

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Fellas - I cannot thank you guys enough for your input.  This has been extremely helpful and improved my train of thought and gave me plenty to study.  After reading the comments, I feel like I have a much better understanding of what I need to focus on and whats less important.  Being a newb, I cannot thank you all enough for your guidance, not only with the Thompson/MP40, but from the overall understanding of MGs/SMGs.

I came from the 1911 world and definitely appreciate nice quality.  I have no problem paying up and getting the quality that comes with it.  I've heard a lot of you talk about the HK Sears which I plan on doing a lot of research on.

Thank you guys so much for your time & help.  I sincerely appreciate how helpful you guys have been and how welcoming everyone on this forum is.

Sam

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6 hours ago, Bwana said:

Other subgun options:

WW2  / Older types

Grease guns - very slow rate of fire. Original guns $$, a few rewelds and Medea corp builds. Mags require loader. One trick pony. Lots of history.

Sten guns - Mk2 has easy change barrel. C&r versions higher $$. Lots of tube guns. Crude look by design. Generally run well. Possible mag issues complicate operation at times. Mags require loader. MK5 guns have wooden stock. Mk3 guns have fixed barrel.  Odd sideways mag. One trick pony  Good history.

Sterling - really post WW2 I believe.  A favorite of many. Good slower rate of fire. Great finger load mags (some say the best mags). Can get suppressed version. Odd sideways mag. Very few c&r. Some converted from Sten tubes ("stenlings"). Do your research to see what to get with tube gun variables. Some options give you factory specs, some not as much.  People like so they keep then and price reflects desirability.  One trick pony.

Beretta MP variants - mostly will be c&r. Maybe some rewelds. Getting pricey. Generally highly regarded. Good easy load mags. 38a is the sexy one with heat shield over barrel. Others are more simple but generally same functionality.  Wooden stocks. One trick pony.

Mp30 / mp34 types - "Cadillac of SMG".  Pre-war to early war. Built like tanks. Wooden stock. All that I've seen are c&r. Getting pricey. Odd side mount mag. Easy load mags. Odd clambering but can shoot 9 Luger. Very smooth. Underrated in my opinion. Lots of interesting history. $$

Ww1 German types - MP18, MP27. also includes British Lanchester. Most are c&r. Used to see some Lanchester tube guns / rewelds every so often. Parts get hard to find for some. Lots of history. No personal shooting experience so cannot comment. Original guns are $$. Not what I would consider for extended blasting fun - more collectible. 

Swedish K - 1945 post-war design. Good history. Lots of parts. Built like a tank. Great mags + can run drums. Very reliable. Good rate of fire (to my taste). Mostly tube guns. Very desirable.  Not a lot that come up for sale since owners like / keep them.

Then modern types

Uzi - very popular, reliable, history, good mags. Can get 22 kit. Read up on different conversions / "factory" guns available.  Bolt guns, different types of conversions, new-made guns (Vector / Group). Lots available.  Easy parts. Runs a little choppy for me but you can somewhat adjust the rate of fire. Big cult following.

Mp5 - classic and expensive.  

Sw76 / MK760 - supposed to be based on Swedish K. Only kind of. Higher rate of fire. Good mags. History (SW-76). Sw76 are all c&r factory guns.  Mk760 came as exact copies of sw76. Known issues with sear that wears. Can be fixed and made reliable. One trick ponies.

Macs - several variants, manufacturers, calibers. They are gaining popularity due to aftermarket uppers that really transform the guns into VERY functional subguns and even rifle caliber conversions (poor man's M16). Versatile.  Typical "entry level" gun that is coming into its own with the aftermarket add-ons.

Other tube guns - some copies of the sw76 look good and seem to have good functionality. Some tubes are transformed into Thompson copies, Lahti copies, and new variants that can take drums, etc.  There are some very clever packages available (Brian Poling - BRP if I remember correctly). See what's out there - worth checking.

That's all I've got today. I'm sure that I've overlooked a number of them. Others likley have different opinions. Take a trip to Las Vegas or somewhere that rents them and try out several. Get what you like.

This is sooooo helpful!  I've printed this out to put in my briefcase so I can research these guns.  Thank you for taking the time to write all of this out!

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To the list given by Bwana-

 

Grease Gun-really fun but too much money these days (had one for years and just sold it-$36.5k)

Sten MK2-fun gun, can be magazine pick ($8.5k-$13.5K tube gun vs C&R)

Sterling MK4-great open bolt 9mm gun super smooth ($13.5k-$17.5k) 

Beretta series-nice shooters, mags arent cheap and parts are drying up quickly ($15k-$22.5k depending on variant)

MP30 or MP34-yes amazingly well built guns but parts are hard to come by as well as mags ($25k-$35k depending on condition)

Post WWI Geman and British SMG's (Lanchester/MP18i/ect) parts are hard to get and costs are only going up

Swedish K-an amazing open bolt SMG supper smooth shooter mags are cheap/plentiful, not common to see as guys don't let go of them often I love mine ($17.5k-$35k tube gun vs C&R)

Uzi-vey nice open bolt 9mm, good starter gun, parts are decent as well as mags ($12k-$16k registerd receiver gun)

HK sear-allows you to have it all as far as HK roller lock weapons go, Fleming/Qualified/S&H are your top choices ($37.5k-$40.5k for the sear)

M16-similar to the HK sear but its not as smooth in 9mm (I had an M16 and I prefer the HK guns) ($19.5k-$35k conversion gun vs original M16 variant)

S&W76 and clones-they are ok but not worth the agrivation IMHO ($12.5k-$15K for S&W guns 2/3 that for MK760 on average)

Mac family-gives you options similar to the HK sear or M16....but you'll be tweaking and tuning it all the time to get it to run 100% reliable.  They can be fun, but can be a major headace.  Lage has uppers for all sorts of things for Mac guns ($8.5k-$12.5k for just the gun, uppers add more)

 

This is more food for thought.  I hope we didn't ruin your mind with a few other options and or hijack your thread.  I agree that you need to shoot one or both of what you first thought about (Thompson and MP40) but also try a few others.  The biggest thing will come down to how much you want to budget for said item(s) If you want a "one and done" then get what it is your heart is set on.  If you want to have a "one and done" big expense that allows you to have multiple options, then an HK sear or M16 is the way to go.  In the end, only you can decide what will fit in your safe, fit within your budget, and fit your lifestyle of shooting.

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I have both a Thompson (USGI WW2 Savage Mfg 1928) and a Charlie Erb "tube" MP40.

To preface the conversation, if you want a machinegun as a "shooter" I wouldn't purchase either a Thompson or MP40 as your first/only machinegun.

1. They are both one trick ponies (technically there are some 22 kits for the Thompson) so flexibility to reconfigure them into something new is going to be close to nil.
2.  Neither are honestly really very good shooters either.
     - The Thompson ergo (specifically the stock and cheekweld) is poor.
     - The Thompson weight as much as a boat anchor.
     - The MP40 the wire stock is pretty meh and there is no good place for your forward hand other than wrapping it around the mag/magwell.
     - The MP40 ROF is super chug-chug slow and the 1928 Thompson is a bit too fast.
     - MP40 stick mags are pretty up there in cost as well.
    - The Thompson shoots more expensive 45acp.
     - The sight on both are pretty marginal.
     - There is little you can do to improve the shootability of either gun. (no upgrades, no optics, etc.)

As a "shooter" the M16 platform and HK sear/box has both the Thompson and MP40 beat by a wide margin.

For the good aspects.... both are iconic subguns but in my experience outside of "gun people" circles a much lower number of folks know what an MP40 is.   Everybody knows what a 1928 Thompson is.   However, between the two I can say among my non-machinegun shooting/owning friend nobody really cares much for the MP40.   The Thompson I have people ask me to bring it out to shoot on a regular basis.  For reasons I don't fully understand, most people just seem to really like the Thompson even with all its shootability faults and are pretty "meh" on the MP40.

As for "collectability" neither a tube MP40 or a West Hurley Thompson is going to be held is super high regard.   However, this is where the tube based MP40 has an edge over has a WH Thompson as a tube based MP40 will still most likely be all original German parts other than the receiver "tube" and honestly there isn't a whole lot to go wrong with the tube.  A 1928 WH Thompson receiver is a complex piece of milled engineering and being a WH is going to probably have a receiver dimension issues  in addition the WH OEM internals and furniture are all lower to be lower quality repro parts.  (Granted some WH Thompsons have had every OEM part and furniture replaced with USGI 1928 parts nowadays)  So apples to apples your run of the mill tube based MP40 is going to be a lot more "authentic" and probably have less problems than your run of the mill 1928 West Hurley Thompson.

At the end of the day for me personally, push comes to shove the MP40 will go long before the Thompson.

If you are set on a MP40 or Thompson and don't want to get an M16 or HK sear, from both a shooter and collectability perspective I would recommend foregoing both the cheaper tube based MP40 and WH Thompson and spending the funds to get a real USGI WW2 1928 Thompson from either AO or Savage.  That way at least you have the history of a true WW2 made 1928 Thompson that will also be of higher build quality and most likely have less issues shooting it.

Just my nickles worth.
 

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Not at all!  You guys have helped me more than I could have imagined and opened the door to so many more options.  I'm really liking the Swedish K and HK sear and have been reading about those a bit.

I cannot thank you guys enough for all of your input!

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7 hours ago, jbntex said:

I have both a Thompson (USGI WW2 Savage Mfg 1928) and a Charlie Erb "tube" MP40.

To preface the conversation, if you want a machinegun as a "shooter" I wouldn't purchase either a Thompson or MP40 as your first/only machinegun.

1. They are both one trick ponies (technically there are some 22 kits for the Thompson) so flexibility to reconfigure them into something new is going to be close to nil.
2.  Neither are honestly really very good shooters either.
     - The Thompson ergo (specifically the stock and cheekweld) is poor.
     - The Thompson weight as much as a boat anchor.
     - The MP40 the wire stock is pretty meh and there is no good place for your forward hand other than wrapping it around the mag/magwell.
     - The MP40 ROF is super chug-chug slow and the 1928 Thompson is a bit too fast.
     - MP40 stick mags are pretty up there in cost as well.
    - The Thompson shoots more expensive 45acp.
     - The sight on both are pretty marginal.
     - There is little you can do to improve the shootability of either gun. (no upgrades, no optics, etc.)

As a "shooter" the M16 platform and HK sear/box has both the Thompson and MP40 beat by a wide margin.

For the good aspects.... both are iconic subguns but in my experience outside of "gun people" circles a much lower number of folks know what an MP40 is.   Everybody knows what a 1928 Thompson is.   However, between the two I can say among my non-machinegun shooting/owning friend nobody really cares much for the MP40.   The Thompson I have people ask me to bring it out to shoot on a regular basis.  For reasons I don't fully understand, most people just seem to really like the Thompson even with all its shootability faults and are pretty "meh" on the MP40.

As for "collectability" neither a tube MP40 or a West Hurley Thompson is going to be held is super high regard.   However, this is where the tube based MP40 has an edge over has a WH Thompson as a tube based MP40 will still most likely be all original German parts other than the receiver "tube" and honestly there isn't a whole lot to go wrong with the tube.  A 1928 WH Thompson receiver is a complex piece of milled engineering and being a WH is going to probably have a receiver dimension issues  in addition the WH OEM internals and furniture are all lower to be lower quality repro parts.  (Granted some WH Thompsons have had every OEM part and furniture replaced with USGI 1928 parts nowadays)  So apples to apples your run of the mill tube based MP40 is going to be a lot more "authentic" and probably have less problems than your run of the mill 1928 West Hurley Thompson.

At the end of the day for me personally, push comes to shove the MP40 will go long before the Thompson.

If you are set on a MP40 or Thompson and don't want to get an M16 or HK sear, from both a shooter and collectability perspective I would recommend foregoing both the cheaper tube based MP40 and WH Thompson and spending the funds to get a real USGI WW2 1928 Thompson from either AO or Savage.  That way at least you have the history of a true WW2 made 1928 Thompson that will also be of higher build quality and most likely have less issues shooting it.

Just my nickles worth.
 

This is extremely helpful!  I bought an M16 and Mac 10/45 and they should be here by November-ish, hopefully.  I have two safes full of guns and only shoot my shotguns for the most part, so I'm liquidating a lot of the guns I don't shoot and selling them to buy some SMG/MGs.

This thread has opened my eyes to so many new guns and helped me immensely in better understanding the numerous different types of SMG/MGs.  I'm really like the Swedish K & HK sear which seems optimal since it can host so many different calibers.

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48 minutes ago, Shortbarrelpete said:

Well what are you selling? We're all gun whores here and buy! 

Haha - I love this forum already!  Most of them are more modern guns - KAC, Arsenal, Colt Python & King Cobra (newer versions), and more.  I'll post a list of all of the items remaining.  I've already sold about 15 guns in the past 3 days.  Trying to get rid of the guns that are more "production" or still being made and keep the Belgium Brownings and WWI & WWII guns.  I don't get to shoot much, so when I do, I want to shoot semi-full auto!

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Does anyone have any leads on an HK Sear and/or Swedish K?  Funny how quick my "want" list can change!

Thank all of you guys so much for your input.  I've been researching all sorts of things and trying my best to familiarize myself more with SMG/MGs.

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Swedish K-good luck and have money ready as they don't turn up often and when they do, they are gone FAST.

HK sear-watch Gunbroker and here for them to pop up.  I'll keep an eye out for one and if I come across one, I'll shoot you a PM.

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1 hour ago, Got Uzi said:

Swedish K-good luck and have money ready as they don't turn up often and when they do, they are gone FAST.

HK sear-watch Gunbroker and here for them to pop up.  I'll keep an eye out for one and if I come across one, I'll shoot you a PM.

You're the man - thank you so much!  Feel free to call me anytime at 512-470-7877 too.

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Becoming a dealer just to buy pre and post MG’s is a quick way to get into hot water. Plus people doing that is going to get legit dealers hosed in the end too. More and more people are pulling this stunt and at some point ATF is going to start pulling licenses. 

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