taylorwso

Why are no "law letter" guns so expensive?

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I have seen some crazy prices for no law letter guns. AR lowers and HK trigger packs for 500- 1700. You can make these for 30-40 bucks each.

PS90s are 5K+ you can get a trigger pack convert it and have a f/a p90 for a couple hundred.

I get that some guns are high because of rarity and or the specialized manufacturing, but if they have to go to a manf why are they spending stupid money on them?

 

 

 

 

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not every1 is a 07/02

 

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Posted (edited)

FWIW. I think its due to not everyone can get a "Law Letter" , hence they cannot get post sample machineguns. But when a dealer is going out of business a law letter is not required when selling off his inventory of post samples. A 07/02 can get without law letter. If your a 01/03, you will still have to have a letter regardless if they are going out of business or not. If a person cannot get a law letter they will pay more for the gun as there is no other way to get it. Still cheaper than a transferable but when they let their license go they will also have to sell prior to their license expiring. 

Thanks, TGW

Edited by TGW

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type 8 cannot make their own but can buy no letter guns

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14 hours ago, SBD said:

not every1 is a 07/02

 

and they cant get them so it doesn't mater

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13 hours ago, SBD said:

type 8 cannot make their own but can buy no letter guns

yeah but there are very few of those compared to 07s

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13 hours ago, TGW said:

FWIW. I think its due to not everyone can get a "Law Letter" , hence they cannot get post sample machineguns. But when a dealer is going out of business a law letter is not required when selling off his inventory of post samples. A 07/02 can get without law letter. If your a 01/03, you will still have to have a letter regardless if they are going out of business or not. If a person cannot get a law letter they will pay more for the gun as there is no other way to get it. Still cheaper than a transferable but when they let their license go they will also have to sell prior to their license expiring. 

Thanks, TGW

I understand that, the only people that can get the guns are 07s/08s. and the 08s are few and far between. The 07s can make a m16 in seconds if they want to way cheaper than the current prices.

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There is a few factors here - First point is common knowledge I assume, but , People pay a premium for "factory built" post samples which come up as no letter guns. Like the US Ordnance M60e6 that sold for 30k recently..I am sure you know that much already though..................Second -  Believe it or not there is also A LOT of 07's that have absolutely no knowlege of half the machine guns they are buying (not saying as an insult, just saying) ... Building an M60 for example for a ton of these guys is not even a fathomable thought.... They are willing to pay a premium for no letter guns and avoid any and all headaches, tracking parts down, navigating the learning curve of whats the registered part on the gun etc etc..

Aaron


  Aaron - Mohnton, Pa  |  BeltFeds.Com, LLC / Stryker Defense  |  FFL 07 / 02 SOT 

  Email: Sales@BeltFeds.Com      Phone: 610-983-8257      Website:  https://BeltFeds.Com 

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I think we can understand some 07 don't have enough knowledge to build a M60, but a M16 or AR variant? I think the OP was pointing out how some post sample F/A ARs are ludicrous in price..

For HK's I can see some dealers not understand how to turn it in to a F/A, though it should be easy. But an AR.. way too easy to convert it for under $40 in parts and equipment.

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7 hours ago, Ryo said:

I think we can understand some 07 don't have enough knowledge to build a M60, but a M16 or AR variant? I think the OP was pointing out how some post sample F/A ARs are ludicrous in price..

For HK's I can see some dealers not understand how to turn it in to a F/A, though it should be easy. But an AR.. way too easy to convert it for under $40 in parts and equipment.

This.

 

 

9 hours ago, Aaron in Mohnton Pa said:

There is a few factors here - First point is common knowledge I assume, but , People pay a premium for "factory built" post samples which come up as no letter guns. Like the US Ordnance M60e6 that sold for 30k recently..I am sure you know that much already though..................Second -  Believe it or not there is also A LOT of 07's that have absolutely no knowlege of half the machine guns they are buying (not saying as an insult, just saying) ... Building an M60 for example for a ton of these guys is not even a fathomable thought.... They are willing to pay a premium for no letter guns and avoid any and all headaches, tracking parts down, navigating the learning curve of whats the registered part on the gun etc etc..

Aaron

I get the the post sample m240s/m60s/ (hell nearly anything beltfed) but ar15 conversion is one hole with the correct lower.

I was watching Ians new video and I guess a new thing is to buy post samples from old dealers and getting them into new SOTs hands. Huge markup for a positie.

I was also surprised how many new Sots there are as 07s but they don't make anything.

 

 

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My understanding is that ATF inspects the workshop of any new 07 license applicant. I assume they would have to show some machines such as a drill press, lathe, mill, and other equipment. That is a major investment to not use for manufacturing.

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I think it's about time and knowledge.  

Law letters take time to get and require actually working with a department.  You also have the wait time from the manufacturer.

Yes some guns are very simple to convert and have parts readily available.  But if you have less time and enough money it's easier to just pay the extra $500-1000 to get what you want.

The M16 lower would cost about $200-250 in material and then tools and time to build.

The MP5 is just the pack ($50) and carrier for some guns.  And then the time to remove the shelf on the pack.

The PS90 conversion is easily done but hard to find parts at retail price.  Also the factory P90 barrel is a wanted item and a used one will run you $700+.

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4 hours ago, gftiv said:

My understanding is that ATF inspects the workshop of any new 07 license applicant. I assume they would have to show some machines such as a drill press, lathe, mill, and other equipment. That is a major investment to not use for manufacturing.

can anyone comment on this?  I am looking at getting an 07 down the road but was unsure if this was true.  It's not going to be at home, so I don't want to invest in a lot of equipment and sign a lease until I have the license.

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4 hours ago, gftiv said:

My understanding is that ATF inspects the workshop of any new 07 license applicant. I assume they would have to show some machines such as a drill press, lathe, mill, and other equipment. That is a major investment to not use for manufacturing.

Thats not true at all.

 

Hell they dont even see if you have a safe

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16 minutes ago, shiklg said:

can anyone comment on this?  I am looking at getting an 07 down the road but was unsure if this was true.  It's not going to be at home, so I don't want to invest in a lot of equipment and sign a lease until I have the license.

They dont.

They only inform you of the USC you must follow, there is no manufacturing requirements, no need for a business plan, and all the other stuff people make up.

If you manf something they can inspect if for adherence to the USC marking/manf requirements which a lot of people do screwup.

 

BUT If you were making a bunch of posties, going out of business, then starting a new LLC/business it might get some attention.

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There are a lot of 07 that don't have shops so your okay 

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My only other guess is 07/02 license holders that want to steer a wide berth of ITAR by never manufacturing anything in house that is on the State Department DDTC US Controlled Munitions List (which machineguns still are part of).

With the change of certain firearms and accessories (including some NFA) moving to the Department of Commerce, if you get an 07/02 and technically never in house manufacture an ITAR controlled item (like a machinegun), its probably helps your potential legal case if it ever came up that while you hold an 07/02 license you never have and never will in house manufacture an ITAR controlled item so there is no applicability to register and pay the annual multi-thousand dollar ITAR registration fee.

You can still acquire post sample machineguns with your license via no law letter samples....for testing and evaluation....but you never actually technically manufactured any on your license hence no need to register and pay the ITAR fee.

 

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1 hour ago, jbntex said:

My only other guess is 07/02 license holders that want to steer a wide berth of ITAR by never manufacturing anything in house that is on the State Department DDTC US Controlled Munitions List (which machineguns still are part of).

With the change of certain firearms and accessories (including some NFA) moving to the Department of Commerce, if you get an 07/02 and technically never in house manufacture an ITAR controlled item (like a machinegun), its probably helps your potential legal case if it ever came up that while you hold an 07/02 license you never have and never will in house manufacture an ITAR controlled item so there is no applicability to register and pay the annual multi-thousand dollar ITAR registration fee.

You can still acquire post sample machineguns with your license via no law letter samples....for testing and evaluation....but you never actually technically manufactured any on your license hence no need to register and pay the ITAR fee.

 

prob true for some. Good addition

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