MG C&R Transfer - Individual to C&R Collector

[Guest]

I sold a C&R eligible machine gun to a gentleman in a neighboring state whom holds a current C&R 03 License. I know I can ship it to him after the form 4 is approved but does he have to complete the back side of the form 4's like an Individual with the photos, fingerprints, etc. or can he just mail them in with the 1st page filled out and signed by myself. This is my first time selling one to a C&R Collector.

I'm looking for an answer from someone that has done this, not what you've read or heard from the Internet. I called NFA today and she didn't exactly know what a 03 C&R Collector license was ........ I think she was thinking a class 3 SOT but I kept saying to her an 03 C&R FFL Collector. They just didn't get it.....

Thanks !!     Dan

[johnsonlmg41]

Fill everything out including the back page.  A bit depends on how his C+R is titled, but in general a lot of zaminers don't know how to process some of the forms and they will request you fill it out whether or not it's completely necessary.  In the long run it will save time.  Just went through this last week and regardless of what the instructions say in my particular case (which is slightly different than your normal C+R) I was asked to fill it in anyhow.   Many don't really know much about C+R licenses FFL's in general...... or the NFA for that matter. 

Generally speaking you can never send too much, but you can send too little which will delay the already lengthy process.

[The Lone Ranger]

Fill it all out and include the print/pics which are not collected on a 03 (collector) FFL so no exemption on the F4.  The exemption is limited to manufacturer, dealer, importer.

 

[johnsonlmg41]

4 hours ago, The Lone Ranger said:

Fill it all out and include the print/pics which are not collected on a 03 (collector) FFL so no exemption on the F4.  The exemption is limited to manufacturer, dealer, importer.

 

Whether they are collected or not on some C+R's is how you interpret the instructions for a responsible person on a C+R app.  It's rather vague and the implication is that you should include it, but it's not specifically spelled out either way.    I have a correction letter received today on a form 4 that only asks only question 13 be filled out on the back, and not the rest since most all of it is done on the RP form.  In the end filling it out can be a time saver.   Last week I had a few more forms ask specifically about #13 be filled out and that's all.  Done, scanned, emailed.   Hours later they call back and ask for the whole page to be filled out contrary to the instructions stating 14-17 not be filled out on a form 4? 

The correct answer is do what you want and fill out whatever, but be prepared to wait on delays and see what they come back with, because nearly every transfer is getting kicked back for something?  Correctly or not?  They also added in a model that they made up since I am aware of the original 85 registration description.

[The Lone Ranger]

I'm old and lazy - should have been more specific - or the OP can check out the instructions instead of paying attention to us.  If the 03 FFL is held by a legal entity, the 5330.20 goes with and covers the same ground.  If a natural person holds the license just fill it out.  Shame on ATF - should have used "natural person" rather than "individual" to be more consistent with statutory verbiage.  If I'm missing something interesting, help a brother out.

If the transferee is an individual, the entire Form 4 shall be completed except for items 18 and 19. In addition, the transferee must include his or her fngerprints on FBI Form FD-258 and his or her photos (see instruction 2g). 

If the transferee is other than an individual, e.g., a trust or legal entity such as a corporation, the transferee shall not complete items 14, 15,16, and 17. All other items must be completed including the signing of the Transferee Certifcation statement by the transferee. 

Photographs and Fingerprints. An individual transferee, except if licensed as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under the GCA, must (1) attach to item 15 of the ATF Form 4, a 2 inch x 2 inch photograph of the frontal view of the transferee taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application and (2) submit two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card with blue lines) with the application. The fngerprints must be clear for accurate classifcation and taken by someone properly equipped to take them. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by The Lone Ranger
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[mike todd]

DAN, I have done this both ways several times EVEN with all the new examiners the last couple of years. LOOK the easy way to keep straight with the C+R issue when NFA-C+R weapons are involved is to  understand the only thing changed in the transaction is the transferee (buyer) may receive it from an out of state transferor (seller) direct to his location OR pick it up in person, WITHOUT using a dealer. the responsible person forms can be ignored as stated in the instructions if an individual.     WHEN the previous transfer did NOT involve a C+R LICENSE be prepared for a LONG WAIT.  I was asked to submit PROOF of originality 5 out of 7 times with legitimate weapons. all but one were approved but it took two years plus in some cases. the one remaining they demand I send the weapon in even though the manufacturer on the form has not existed or done business for 73 years ?