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Kurt S. in Callahan FL

Sighting in M11/9 smg HK sighted upper

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Posted (edited)

I have a M11/9 smg with an older Autowekes HK sight upper i bought from Erik many moons ago. ...

I ran it with some Wolf 9mm and my 1st Gen Bowers CAC9 can.

Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 10 yards and further. 

Any recommendations for using these HK sights,  what rear diopter setting  to use and/or a different front sight insert?

I was thinking about buying some HK front sight inserts and do some experimenting by reducing the height of some of the inserts to see what effect ot would have if any.

I've got no problem changing ammo or running it unsupressed if that would help.

Any ideas, experience or recommendations would be appreciated. 

Edited by Kurt S. in Callahan FL

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I never had any issues hitting with my AutoWerkes upper. 

I would start with as few variables as possible and remove the silencer. Shooting semi-auto, are you getting a consistent group, or are the bullets hitting all over the place? 

If you get a consistent group, you can adjust the sights as needed. If hitting all over, you have some issue other than sights.

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Many thanks, gonna run it without the can and use a Mepro 21B on the rail.

I'll also run it with the can and the Mepro to see if there's any differences. 

On semi it was all over the place but that was with the can and the HK sites.

Gotta get this going asap for the smg competition at the Creek. ..

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Kurt S.in Callahan FL,

Your accuracy problems with the  Gordon Ingram SMG could be serious if indeed you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn...Even my shot out Barrels from 1973 at 10 yrds. can Still hit the broad side of a barn....

I assume that you must be embellishing the tale - for effect. 

If not ... Don't shoot until problem is determined.

The advice from GarrettJ is right on ... reduce the variables...

My first impulse for that kind of crazy shooting would be baffle strikes... Not good.

If everything checks out ,not being loose- out of spec...Then ammo.... Even factory loads can have a bad batch ...My M10 / 45 usually can digest any kind of ammo, but weak irregular loaded ammo can drastically effect accuracy...

As for sighting in .... I have never actually attempted shooting in the Semi-auto mode.. . Trying to achieve consistent accuracy with a open bolt system seemed a fool's errand...The trigger pull combined with the inertia of the bolt leads to inconsistent accuracy. My approach with sighting-in the Ingram SMG IS short bursts...At 25 yrds you should be able to put a whole mag within 15" torso sized target...The original Ingram design had very crude sights... More important in accuracy is controlling the weapon during fire. Muzzle rise.... The wrist strap... And the notorious collapsing wire stock...If you wish to be more accurate  with your M11  ...

first get rid of the wire stock... You have to find one that fits your body size.. think stability and comfort.. next replace the strap with a light weight handgrip to control muzzle rise....

then slow It down ... Rate of fire that is  with a Heavy bolt setup or just spend the money for a Lage upper and all of your accuracy problems will be solved.

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Many thanks.

It has a task slowfire conversion from Metal Werkes many many years ago along with a heavy buffer on an ACE full stock and an Autowekes front vertical grip.

Muzzle rise isn't a problem as i never do mag dumps due to my wallet since ammo has risen so much over the past 20 years.

Checked my BOWERS CAC9  1st gen can and looks like there's no baffle strikes. 

Threw an Mepro 21B on it to see what i can do and I'm gonna try some different ammo.

Gotta get it tuned up for the Creek in April. 

Thanks again

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Kurt S.,

Sounds like you have got all the right Accessories... Should be a very competitive setup. A real TAC driver.

A few things to consider...

Is this the first time using the Metal Werkes upper?

If so , are the sights properly installed or (loose, I've experienced  this problem with  HK Sights on my M10  )... Sight alignment with barrel?... The Bowers can is very serviceable and if it has had heavy use it might be worth sending it to them to rejuvenate it. Not sure what kind of turnaround they have, but their reputation is they back what they make.

If all things are clean and in spec.- then Ammo...

Please keep us informed on what you discover.

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I've only used the upper s few times over the past 15 or so years as i always used my beater uppers to burn up large amounts of ammo. 

I had sent my can to Tom many years ago and he serviced the can along with updated baffles for free. ...

We keep you all updated as I gotta solve this issue next week as I'm leaving for the Creek the week after. 

I think the Mepro 21B will help a lot. .

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Ran the MAC with the Mepro 21B optics and my 1st Gen Bowers CAC9, it was very accurate at 25 yards ...

I use a regular vertical grip when not using my can but when using my can I use a supressor lock to avoid backing out ...

 

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Kurt S., 

Glad to hear you have it dialed in...A little help for experienced eyes can be worth every penny spent...

I've been considering a Mepro 21B for my M10/45  ...My tired old eyes could use a little help too.

Good luck with the match!

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