Triggered

Bit of an Introduction

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12 posts in this topic

New member, not a lot of exposure to this particular forum in the past, but can find me at SnipersHide, the Files, MG42, etc. under the same name.

Looks like a great NFA community with lots of activity, and a reputation for good market place - the reasons I joined.

Fairly new into the owning NFA game; have been around them plenty in the past as far as shooting, literature, etc. and find myself in a position to now own one.

Long list of guns I have a soft spot for and love getting behind, but even longer list for those still eluding me.

Have decided on either an MG42 or M60 for my first big purchase. I am leaning towards the 42 a little for its historical significance and general bad ass-ness as a classic, but the practicality and more user friendly orientation of the M60 has me considering it as well - both are guns I love getting behind.

Plan is to hopefully bring back a nice C&R 1944 Maget from auction in the near future (fingers crossed the bidding isn't out of this world:S), otherwise would be more than content with a classic Pig and get an E6 kit for it to have the best of both worlds you could say.

Really just wanted to introduce myself, but also listen to any comments or wisdom bestowed upon me.

Side note, but if I am considering a C&R License for the MG42 (no other major purchases planned...at the moment at least...), is it worth the hassle of trying to get it done in less than a 35+/- days from the auction? I would be able to take possession of the gun much quicker than a Form 4, correct? (Will be coming as a Form 3)

Cheers!  

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Hey Trigger:

Go with a Rock Island M60 and never look back.  The MG42 is best tripod mounted with the operator siting behind it pulling the trigger handle- its good for old guys,- but it shoots 8mm at twice the rate of the 60, the barrels are lighter (heat up quicker) and the bolt receiver lockup is inferior to the 60.

The M60 is Man portable, and still in service around the world today. Can be tripod mounted, Jeep pedestal mounted, or fired offhand. Dont have an E6 kit yet, cause the E4 is great.  Put a trijicon 6x48 on it and youre good for 400yd. Of course, theres also the predator pack to think about.

Just my 2cents.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi Trigger-

As far as which gun to get, I would throw practicality out the window and go with the 42 any day but that's not based on anything except my interests and not why I'm commenting...  To your question about the C&R license, I doubt you could get one done in 35 days to begin with but even if you could it wouldn't allow you to transfer on Form 3. Form 3 is a tax exempt transfer for SOT holders which a C&R cannot be.  What it would allow, however, is for a C&R eligible gun to transfer directly to you from out of state on Form 4 rather than to a FFL/SOT in your state on F3 or F4 then a second transfer to you on F4.  So yes, if you choose to pursue C&R eligible MGs a C&R license could save you some time and money in transfers.  Hope that helps a little with your decision.

Edited by Centrifugal Arms

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Personal interest is a little heavier in the MG42 for me, but the 60 is great too. Basically gunning for a 42 unless I get skunked on some I am looking into, then would more consider a Pig if that happened - not as hard to find. Was surprised on the pricing on the M60 though, was up past the 42 most times.

 

Centrifugal - correct me if I am wrong here, but say I have my C&R and I purchase an eligible firearm, what is the time period for receiving the gun? I understand that I would receive the gun on a Form 4 since I am an individual collector, not a Dealer who can take it on a Form 3. (I should had re-phrased my original post, the gun is available on a 4 or a 3)
Do I bypass the traditional 9 month wait time on ATF approval since I have the C&R in this case/ shows up in a few weeks?

 

My big concern was for the gun not exclusively being on a Form 4 since it will have to go to my local Class III dealer (begin first 9 mo wait) and then they pass it onto me (begin second 9 mo wait) virtually two years later.

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3 hours ago, Triggered said:

say I have my C&R and I purchase an eligible firearm, what is the time period for receiving the gun?

Having a C&R will not expedite the time it takes to approve the transfer, plan on at least 9 months.  It would keep you from having to wait for it to transfer to your instate dealer before starting the F4 to you but that's it, more on that below.

 

3 hours ago, Triggered said:

My big concern was for the gun not exclusively being on a Form 4 since it will have to go to my local Class III dealer (begin first 9 mo wait) and then they pass it onto me (begin second 9 mo wait) virtually two years later.

The fact the gun is available on F3 or F4 is a good thing, it gives you a couple options you wouldn't necessarily have with a private seller.  Basically you can approach this two ways, if you get your C&R in time you can have the dealer transfer directly to you on F4 and you'll have 9 months or so and your set. If you don't do the C&R route then the gun will have to transfer to your in state dealer via F3, this will take roughly 8 weeks, if the dealer that has the gun now e-files the F3 it will likely be approved in 30 days.  Either way, there's no reason it should take 9 months to get to your instate dealer if the guns available on F3.  So in this case, the time you are looking at saving by pursing a C&R license is approximately 1-2 months and probably an NFA transfer fee from your local dealer.     

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Centrifugal Arms,

Thank you for elaborating on my previous question. My main curiosity was as to if the Form 4 process would be expedited, which is a no.

I am rather happy with the fact the gun can ship as a Form 3 or Form 4, however, after talking with the local Class III dealer (to my understanding the only one in the entire state who deals with machineguns) today, I am a little less than thrilled.

Depending on who I catch at the shop I get differing levels of "pull your pants down and bend over" seeing that I've been given the "Oh, we have no problem storing the firearm - totally fine." to "It will cost $400 a month and basically buy one of my five [machine] guns or its the highway". So I am a little adamant on the process now.

Another new discovery is that the neighboring state (with the FA friendly range) is a C&R machinegun only state (will let you figure out which state offers that exclusive deal) - which I think is fine because the gun I'm after is eligible - otherwise I now have no usable range to discharge the perspective purchase.

So my new question is the following: the gun is C&R eligible, however, I do not currently possess a C&R FFL License. I have the application filled out ready to go and can overnight it tomorrow if need be. [question part is here ->] Say in theory I win said firearm at auction, pay the auction firm their money and go "hey I am waiting on my C&R, do you mind holding off briefly on the Form 4 process?" and if they then agree I would proceed to transfer the gun (once granted the C&R FFL). Question being, if the transfer begins as a Form 4 (since the firearm can now be directly shipped to me), the auction firm is now responsible for holding the gun until ATF gives approval roughly 9 months later, correct? Thus avoiding $400/month "storage" payments.

 

Appreciate any feed back on this, thank you.

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Fill out the C+R app now.   If you win at auction they can take 3-4 weeks to do paperwork on your purchase depending on the house.  

400 a month is extreme.  While there are some carrying costs and fees to cover them that's more than I've ever heard of or could reasonably explain.   What state?  I can't think of a state with a "sole" SOT that does transfers?  Lots of guys here from every state that could recommend a dealer if you provide some basic info.

Yes the auction house holds the gun.......for a LONG time these days.  Not a good business model.   HTH

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ATF has 60 days to act on your (properly completed) application and that is usually achieved.  A good $30 to spend if you don't mind some fairly simple record keeping.

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Completely agree on holding sold merchandise for 9 months or more is a great way not to make money, which makes me understanding of the situation for the dealer here, but $400 a month is outrageous in my opinion - tack on an extra $4-5k for what you just paid, plus an auction fee of about 25%.

Location is North Dakota. Will consider any Class III shop in the state set up to do machineguns at this point - I have been unable to find any beyond the already mentioned.

Gun is C&R eligible, which means I am sticking my app in the mail today to get the FFL03 (hopefully before the auction) and avoid the mess brewing here.

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As mentioned above, I find it hard to believe there is only one SOT holder in North Dakota but based on those asinine storage fees maybe they know something I don't....or I need to up mine.  Applying for your C&R is gonna be the way to go, if your license isn't finalized by the time the auction rolls around it might be worth a phone call to the auction house to explain your situation and see how they feel about waiting for it to be issued, prior to bidding, just incase they process the paperwork faster than expected.

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Welcome aboard. Those are the two remaining full sized belt feds I own. Got both of mine locally word of mouth from individuals. Make sure you can inspect before you buy (preferably with a good machine gunner). There are a lot of reputable dealers out there, but check references. I've been badly burned by two "30 year in the business dealers"(one in AZ, the other in Ohio). Make sure it's in their inventory and if it says matching numbers make sure they are originally applied numbers, etc.  I love my 60, but spares are expensive. At least with the 42, spares are relatively inexpensive compared to 60 parts and one can get a 7.62 NATO conversation for the 42 (so 8mm availability isn't an issue).  If I had neither, I would grab the first decent, affordable one to present itself. If I were to keep only one, it would be the 60.  Good luck. 

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At $400 a month storage do they waive transfer fees or are they going to gig you with an administrative fee on top of the storage fee, which is on top of the $200 tax?  Certainly your gun would take up some room but after nine months+ the dealer will have a nice new safe at $400 a month.  Just be sure of what all the terms would be if you go the dealer route.  C&R is the way to go if you can swing it.  Also vet out the dealer on how expedient they are.  I had a local CIII screw me over on two can transfers as I went with the first guys I found that were close.  An associate in the shop was great but the owner did all the paperwork and he was less than great and slow as molasses.    

Ron

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