mike todd

help with night vision

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not sure I'm in the right forum , but dan will take care of that if not. I'm looking for some intelligent input concerning a night vision purchase.  like all texas land owners we suffer from the feral hog problem and I need to purchase a weapon sight. I have pursued this most of a year and learned only that I cant use thermal.  all the local vendors nose's start growing when you walk in the door and I have NO faith in them what so ever. all I know at this point? I bought one of the west german surplus 2nd gen HK kits and it came close to my needs. I would hope that things have progressed considerably since they were built. both in weight and performance I built a 6.5 grendal AR platform for this and went through a lot of pain to keep the weight under 9 lbs.  I am not sure but have reached the following conclusions so far  #1  power supply hope to use AA bats.  # 2 need at least 250 yrd range under normal light #3 cant consider head or hat mount, prefer a weapon site, but could consider a unit behind existing optics. #4 I don't believe a thermal or digital will work for me.  I have a friend that has made night vison his full time hobby and he has became a victim of technology and some vendors taking advantage. I invited him for some hog shooting and he brought what he claimed was 3 units that cost him almost $15k for the package. he had these for almost 5 months. in an attempt to go out , after 3 hours of selecting options and pushing buttons we gave up and went to the cordless floods. the temps here run too high for thermal and I'm afraid of all the tech with the digital. I just want a turn on and go unit. any thoughts? a lead to a REPUTABLE DEALER would be a good start. thanx in advance MIKE


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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PVS-14 is what I use on small caliber AR's.  It sits behind most of the aimpoints I have and behind an eotech.  I'll probably be moving it forward soon though.  I've also used it behind a CQT on 3 power to shoot deer.  The reticle is visible without illuminating it.    Anything further I have a PVS-22 which is the cat's behind literally at 200 yds. with a 4.5-14 leopold behind it.  Currently I have it on a .308 bolt gun however it took some work to make that happen.  It would be a clip on to an AR-10 with ring height adjusted accordingly.  They say the sweet spot is 8x, and it works well there, but I don't have much trigger time with it to dial it in yet.  It's mosquito season here and night time long distance shooting spots are tough to find.   Add a decent IR illuminator and you can easily see coyotes out to a 1000 yds and if you're a better shot than me you could likely hit them.

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if I got it right   the pvs-22 sits in front of your choice in optics? while you have the pvs-14 behind the eo-tech, did you also mean it can go in front of optics when you said you may be moving it forward soon? can you tell me who makes both units and a reputable dealer I may contact? I am really starting from scratch here.in 86 or so I purchased a Litton weapon sight that was fantastic from a thought to be friend at the time after bunch of back and forth I paid him around $4200 for it .  a month or so later another in our " clic" bought the same unit for  close to $3000  with an additional transit case I didn't get.   needless to say that took all the joy out of it and I ended up dumping it at one of the bigger show's and never got to give it a work out.  the rancher next to me just got taken for a ride by a dealer claiming to have USGI surplus reconditioned weapon sites made by NAIT  his 4 power unit is just this side of worthless past 70 yards and that's with a separate illuminator. GOD help our troops if they are doomed to use the like!  again it was presented as WAY under market at $1795.00   in my experience so far, all the dealers to date sell promises like telemarketers sell processing and handling  nothing more.  I cant express enough gratitude for your post and I value it high as you had NOTHING TO GAIN, by doing so

      THANK YOU    MIKE


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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7D's and a pac4c worked fine for us in the 82nd.

Never liked the 14's

My 2c's

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10 hours ago, JnC Manufacturing said:

worked fine for us in the 82nd

 

JNC , thank you!  you guys that put it all on the line , hold the most weight with me. by the way I never miss a chance to say THANK YOU FOR THAT and do so now.  being an old piece of inert vegetable matter I don't do well searching the webb and that's why I tried this site  brand names and A SOURCE sure would be a big help  cheers mike


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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I know this isn't what you were asking but my buddies and I have been looking for a place to hunt hogs in Texas. We have 14s and thermal, don't sell it, and would be happy to let you try anything out. 

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Every night vision and thermal device that I have ever owned or sold are imperfect solutions, with lots of compromise along the way. Thermal viewers do not really show the difference between a hog, calf, dog or coyote you can see a heat signature but 100% target id is suspect at best. A hog standing in the middle of a open field at 100 yards is about a 50% id other heat signatures are less. Plenty of other animals have been killed by careless shots on what looked like a hogs. Some of the popular U-Tube hog hunters have shot the wrong species and had land owners throw them out.

Option 1 PVS-14 mounted on a M69 mount

I agree with the post above suggesting the PVS-14 mounted behind a Aimpoint, Eotech, RMR or a 4 x or so scope. I personally use this option on one of my guns. This gives you a duel use night vision device by using a quick release lever style  M69 mount about $270.00. A PVS-14 from a quality supplier   should run $3200.00 to $4000.00 I recommend US Night Vision or TNVC I sell devices from both, the mark up is very low you can buy direct  from both. I think TNVC offers a 5 year warranty on the tube. 

Option 2 fixed night vision scopes

TNVC had a killer deal on refurbished units last year I got several people who were looking for night vision to purchase Raptor style scopes from them, these units looked like brand new units.  For a dedicated scope the Raptor style In my opinion is the best there is, you get what you pay for. There are refurbished units out there be careful who you buy it from, stolen government property is a bad idea an agent from Uncle Sam might come and take it from you.

Option 3 front mounted or clip on night vision

The night vision device mounted in front of the scope is a most expensive option and it is less flexible, the PVS-22, PVS-24 require the scope mount to match the device. The scope needs to have 1x up to 6x more than this tend to get pixilated. I have one of these on my wife's rifle 1 to 6x scope, in 300 blackout. I am going to replace it with a 4x Raptor.

Option 4

So called digital night vision is nothing other than a low-light tv camera with illumination. Ok for hunting up close but totally useless in a long range or tactical situation. Someone makes a mount for an IPhone for less than $100 that works better than some of the stuff i see people buy. 

There is something to keep in mind when you are comparing night vision devices.

There are about 10 or 12 days a month that night vision works great. About a week when it hardly works at all and 3 or 4 days on each end of that week that it works just ok. Overcast and clouds can turn wonderful conditions into terrible conditions instantly.

The full moon combined with a Raptor style scope is incredible most people that see this can not believe it almost like daytime.

The IR laser mounted on your gun is another option with a PVS-14 that is mounted on a helmet there are several civilian legal ones at very reasonable prices, good out to 200 to 300 yards. The military IR lasers tend to over power the night vision device at useful ranges.

From a tactical point of view all  thermal and night vision are totally passive, as soon as you turn on illumination or a laser you become a beacon.   (does not include digital night vision)

 

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THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!!  THANK YOU!   I knew I would get the right response from you guys, just had to wait it out. I have learned to hold back when offered an opinion, but you backed yours up with some info I could consider in addition. I found it to be VERY INFORMATIVE and what I needed. i will digest this a bit more and get in touch with you

        THANX AGAIN! mike


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Bullet beam & helmet mounted PVS-14 is the way to roll. Having you PVS-14 on you rifle is not unlike using a rifle scope to scan for big game rather then buying a spotting scope or binoculars.

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Mike,

if you are going to the creek in fall there are several vendors there with reasonable prices and try before you buy.  Used decent thermal is about 5K min. right now.  I've been tempted, but the cost vs. value is just a bit much vs buying two additional pvs 14's.   I'm not a fan of any helmet or head mount as a recreational shooter.  I have a number of devices that sit on guns and then always have one hand held to scan the horizon as a monocular before I use the gun.... just faster.  Higher output illuminators are excellent over 3-400 yds and then the lower power settings in closer and nothing can hide in the shadows.  Many eyes are reflective as well to IR illumination.  PEQ-15's are excellent and offer up everything for the recreational shooter.  Use of a suppressor is highly recommended for any of this. 

Or there's old school PVS-4's which with an illuminator are an excellent value for the money if weight and size are not a major issue?  If I were to buy just one, it would be a pvs-14.....most versatile hands down. 

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GREAT ADVICE  and what I was looking for. I want a weapon mntd device, then hope to add a viewer after I recover from that.(sigh) it looks like the pvs 14 is the one to look at first. everyone like it.. helmet / head mounts are a real pain for me. never had night vision on one but done enough light mounted up there to know its not for me. thanx for the input you just cant get too much! mike


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Mr Todd . If you are considering selling your Zeiss Fero; I would be interested. Thanks. JR Houston Texas

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