Neo

Last call 41F questions for corrections & revisions before submitting to ATF.

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Posted (edited)

I'm submitting all 24 of my forms on July 12th by mail, so no room for error here.  I bet others will have similar concerns so please feel free to use this thread for any last minute pre-41F form question.  Here's my contribution: Regarding sears that had multiple calibers designated.  The ATF has currently decided, ""We no longer accept multiple calibers and have decided that all sears should be registered as N/A." -source: http://static.hkpro.com/straightgrain/docs/ATF_MultiCal_Current.pdf
 

My questions:

Question #1.) Would the aforementioned N/A designation for multi-caliber apply to HK trigger packs/frames such as DLO and LaFrance?

Question #2.) Regarding a form 1. 4h: Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data to include maker's name, city and state which will appear on the firearm) (use additional sheet if necessary)

For 4h, I entered:
1.) engraved top of receiver with:
My Trust
Memphis, TN
2.) remarked model from USC to UMP


But I've read on the net that we should now leave 4h blank unless you want your form denied.  Is that true?  Seems like helpful information that the ATF would want, and would also help LEO validate the SBR. But logical doesn't have any place with ATF from what I've read and they have no set standards and change rules on the fly. So what are the current rules for 4h?

Question #3.) For field: 4c. Caliber or Gauge
Is it true that some ATF agents are denying proper/correct caliber designations? (not for multi caliber, but single designation for various forms):
9mm
12 gauge
.22 LR
300 BLK
.45 ACP
5.56mm


And will only accept lotto numbers at the moment?
9
12
22
30
45


Question #4.) I think I know the answer to this one, but just in case:
I want to change my trust name because the current one is too long and I didn't pick it, my previous gun dealer did. After I create a new trust, must I transfer all the items from my original trust to my new trust by form 4 and pay the stamp taxes all over again? I do in fact want all of NFA items to be on the new trust.

Edited by Neo

sigpic35918_2.gif PROJECT 41F filed July 12thdelivered to agent July 14th,
check cleared July 18th, & stamp ETA: Feb/March 2017.

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I'm unsure if anyone can answer definitely about box 4.h.

I mailed two form 1's last month, and I did include info in it. We'll see what happens. I used paper forms in case they return them for corrections. It's not guaranteed, but at least that would hold the original date.

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Posted (edited)

Spoke to a helpful NFA specialist on the phone today for 39 minutes and he was able to address every question I had.  I learned that I'll be adding a lot of photographs (must be printed hard copies), and memos.

Question #1.) Would the aforementioned N/A designation for multi-caliber apply to HK trigger packs/frames such as DLO and LaFrance?

Yes, designate as N/A for caliber because this a conversion device only that does not have a chamber or barrel.

Question #2.) Regarding a form 1. 4h: Additional Description

This is situational.  The ATF agent walked me through the forms that he said it was OK to use additional info on. Everything I entered above for the SBR is to be permitted, and then I wanted additional info for machine guns that would clarify what they are, he told me how to word the entries for 4h and to add memo and photographs.

Question #3.) For field: 4c. Caliber or Gauge

I was recommended to designate calibers as such because the examiners are entering the caliber only and additional data isn't used nor wanted:
9
12
.22
.45
5.56

Question #4.)  I'm told that I must pay transfer tax again using form 4 from my current trust to the new trust.

Edited by Neo

sigpic35918_2.gif PROJECT 41F filed July 12thdelivered to agent July 14th,
check cleared July 18th, & stamp ETA: Feb/March 2017.

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Out of curiosity why are you waiting to just make the deadline? 

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I  put what the previous form had on it (9mm Para,  7.62mm NATO, .30 Carbine) and things in 4h (Made in W. Germany, dot 44, etc). Never had a problem in over 30 years from that. They have delayed or kicked back or denied for all sorts of other arbitrary and contrived stuff, but never that. 

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On 7/8/2016 at 4:34 PM, JoshNC said:

Out of curiosity why are you waiting to just make the deadline? 

Out of the 24 forms that I'm submitting to the ATF, all purchases were made out of state, and most transfers haven't cleared to my local SOT yet. The more time that passes before the ATF processes my forms, the greater the probability that all will have successfully transferred to my local SOT.  What i don't want is for the ATF to process a form 4 for an item that still hasn't cleared the form 3 transfers to my SOT yet.  That could get my SOT in trouble, and result in the form 4 being kicked back. I spoke to the ATF NFA branch several times last week, and I was told that form 4s submitted right before 41F will require at least 2 more months than the current processing time because of the record amount of submissions they have and will be receiving. Current processing time is averaging 5 months, so we can expect 7 months for the forms postmarked on July 12th. That would probably allow enough time for a form 3 to be declined, resubmitted, and successfully transfer before the ATF gets around to processing my batch of form 4s. I’m penta checking these forms tonight and tomorrow before meeting with my SOT for signing and dating. Then its off to printing gun photographs, writing memos to the examiner, arranging everything for the packet, and mailing to ATF.

Its my 1st time submitting to the ATF, and I'm the one filling out all 24 forms. My gun dealer just got his SOT and I'm their first NFA customer, so its like the blind leading the blind, hence the calls to the ATF and this thread. I decided it best that I complete the forms and invested much time to be sure that everything is as perfect as possible before submitting. Even formed a new trust name last week, purchased from Silencershop, since my previous trust name was too long, trust was generic from a local dealer, and the form 4s weren't submitted exactly how I wanted them.


sigpic35918_2.gif PROJECT 41F filed July 12thdelivered to agent July 14th,
check cleared July 18th, & stamp ETA: Feb/March 2017.

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Posted (edited)

Any last day/hour/minute 41F submissions to share?

I had 39 minutes left to meet the 41F deadline tonight. Was paranoid about getting a flat tire or stuck in traffic from another BLM protest. Prepaid postage label was dated for July 12th, and the postal clerk obliged with decorating the package with red inked July 12th postmarks. An incredible amount of prep work went to submitting to the ATF before 41F. It really shouldn't be this complicated for new folk, but I suppose that's how they want it, convoluted and complicated. Invested weeks working on the form 4s, and a form 1, perfecting/polishing with periodic calls to the NFA branch for guidance. I was fortunate that my new SOT allowed me to prepare all of the form 4s on my end, and to submit before the form 3s have cleared. He only had 5 items out of my 24 transfers on hand, the rest are pending.

Everything was printed and dated for today, as in all forms, including their duplicates, were signed by both my SOT and myself this afternoon. Also, a new trust bought from silencershop, its notary stamps, and of course the postage/postmark all dated for July 12th too. Shipped the BATFE the following:

  • Total of 106 pages printed on 32 lb premium paper, including color copies of the 9 page trust. I installed fresh OEM HP toner to be sure all was laser crisp.
  • 8" x 10" photographs for the firearms, printed July 12th with time-stamps. 1st printed at FedEx, they were crap. Went with Walgreen's pharmacy next, much better, allowed end-user to crop and add notes & time-stamps.
  • CD with high resolution files of the photographs, made July 12th.
  • Memo to the examiner, signed and dated July 12th.
  • Check for $4,605.00 dated July 12th for the $200 x23 + $5 AOW.

I would have taken a pic to share, was one crazy thick stack for the examiner because of the 32 lb paper used. Sorry, just now thought of that.

All shipped by USPS Priority Mail at the final hour. Final hour as in the postal branch in Memphis is their airport location that closes at 10 PM. Fingers crossed, hoping that nothing gets kicked back, as that was the reason for penta checking everything to perfection.  Now the wait begins.
https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=9405510200793067694683
july12.jpg

Edited by Neo

sigpic35918_2.gif PROJECT 41F filed July 12thdelivered to agent July 14th,
check cleared July 18th, & stamp ETA: Feb/March 2017.

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