Help/Advice with HKs please!

[AlexUSMC0311]

I have decided that my next MG will be an HK, most likely a Sear but I am not opposed to a RR MP5. My current collection is an AC556K, an M1A1 Thompson, and an Uzi Bolt. What are some brands of sear to get and to avoid? What are some things to know before going any further about the weapon series? Is moving sears to different host guns as easy as the world would have me believe? And if i buy just a sear, will Zenith MP5s work as a host without milling away receiver blocks and illegally making a post sample? Do PTRs make host guns for the larger calibers or do I have to have preban 91s, 93s, and 94s? what are y'alls experiences with HKs in general and wisdom that you can give? Thanks in advance everybody!

[har1690]

That's a long question. I have several Fleming sears and hosts. The HK sear is a great platform to aquire. But than down the rabbits hole with semi's, parts, ammo. Did I mention parts. The sear is awesome starting with the SP-89 thru the 21e/23e clones. Been there and still there. This is a great site to ask for help with specific questions. I have a few RR MG's as well, but with today's prices once you get your sear and a few semi's...well...Wish you good luck with your discession. 

[AlexUSMC0311]

Thanks, so is there a big difference between the sears as far as Fleming, SH, Dyer, etc? I currently have an HK91 and an HK93 but I'm waiting to have that built into a 53 shorty.

[MontanaRenegade86]

I have zero personal experience with HK sears, but I can tell you that I do not particularly like the looks of the Ciener sear.

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/info-pics-of-different-manufacturers-registered-hk-trigger-packs-sears-an-housings.372810/

[Got Uzi]

If you want give me a call tomorrow afternoon and I can help you with your HK host and sear questions. 

(330) 432-45nine8

[johnsonlmg41]

No, moving sears around is sort of PITA.  Moving the sear out of a modified trigger pack is sort of a gray area in the first place.  To move to different classes of HK's, like an MP5K to an HK21E to swap everything over to that pack (the ejector, sear trip, sear, maybe hammer spring, etc.) would be a project especially if it was a 21E burst pack.  I just ended up buying more sears to limit all the issues.

You have a 91 and a 93.....that's very easy, you don't swap out the sear, you just move the whole pack, or complete housing and never take anything apart. 

PTR's, Zenith, etc.  you get what you pay for.  Sometimes it works out 100%, but more often than not, there are issues which is why the older HK stuff has not lost a dime of value even with the introduction of all this new stuff.  Some guys are good with Aldi cola, but I like Coke, because it's always consistent....other than the one time someone tried to make it "new", epic fail.

[taylorwso]

On 7/6/2022 at 3:56 PM, AlexUSMC0311 said:

I have decided that my next MG will be an HK, most likely a Sear but I am not opposed to a RR MP5. My current collection is an AC556K, an M1A1 Thompson, and an Uzi Bolt. What are some brands of sear to get and to avoid? What are some things to know before going any further about the weapon series? Is moving sears to different host guns as easy as the world would have me believe? And if i buy just a sear, will Zenith MP5s work as a host without milling away receiver blocks and illegally making a post sample? Do PTRs make host guns for the larger calibers or do I have to have preban 91s, 93s, and 94s? what are y'alls experiences with HKs in general and wisdom that you can give? Thanks in advance everybody!

I don't think there is a bad sear, some are more desirable but they all work. I've had mine for 20 years here is what I will tell you

1. Go german vs clones. Clones are cheaper but they are a PITA and frustrating if you have to work with them, especially gettting to run full auto. If you have to go clone, get german bolt/bcg (internals)

2. German HK anything is expensive but worth it

3. find a good smith, just have them fix whatever vs you trying to do it, it will cost less in the end.

4. German HK anything is expensive but worth it

5. Ditch burst packs, just get a sef to make it easy. Burst packs are a waste of money IMO

6. German HK anything is expensive but worth it

7. I would get in order MP5, 93/33, 23e.  91/51s suck on full auto, 21es are too expensive to feed and 21s are not fun with the crappy belt loading

8. German HK anything is expensive

but worth it9. Once you get into beltfeds, other guns start to suck

10. German HK anything is expensive but worth it

 

[Got Uzi]

You have to find a host that is good.  Not all "clone" guns are made equal either.  With the prices these days I wouldn't go for German guns IF you intend to shoot the crap out of them.  If you only want to shoot it now and then, by all means buy German.  That being said, even with a German host gun, you may still have to work on things to get them to run with your sear.  Its not always a "plug and play" kinda thing. I argee that you wanna get the 9mm and 223 guns.  While I think the HK51 is a completely STUPID gun....It is one of the ones I'll get out of the safe now and then to make noise with.  However, If you want to have a nice litte HK style host collection, the following is the way to go:

MP5

MP5SD

MP5K (or MP5K-Reverse Stretch)

HK23E (or HK23EK)

HK93/HK33

HK53

 

The nice thing about having all those host guns is they only require 2 different mags between them, 9mm and 223/556.  The belt fed uses standard SAW links so those aren't hard to get either.  I like simplicity in my stuff anymore, and the more common the mags or part, the better in my book.  Thats my two cents.

[Corvette Guy]

What are some brands of sear to get and to avoid?  There is a whole article over at HKPro.com on the various conversions.  A Fleming / S&H sear is probably the gold standard.  There are some really jacked up registered receivers, read up on them and beware. 

What are some things to know before going any further about the weapon series?  Read the article over at HKPro it is a must.  You'll need to read it a couple of times before it starts to make sense. 

Is moving sears to different host guns as easy as the world would have me believe?  You don't typically move a sear around as it is in a timed sear pack.  You can move your sear pack around as long as you aren't left with a unregistered SBR (read up on sear marriage).  Depending on the caliber you'll have to change the ejector and 'maybe' the hammer spring.  Depending on the gun you might have to shim the pack to get the proper height.

And if i buy just a sear, will Zenith MP5s work as a host without milling away receiver blocks and illegally making a post sample?  I think the Zenith has the block as do the SP5s.  I've got a PTR 9 that runs great and I don't have to be worried about that stupid SP5 block.  There are some they say if you put on a regular 9x series shelf, you can remove the block on the SP5.  I don't know what is right and I don't want to be a test case so I bought a PTR and I'm happy with it.  If money is no object get a real HK, some of the clones are junk and will never run right.

Do PTRs make host guns for the larger calibers or do I have to have preban 91s, 93s, and 94s?  Century / PTR 93s run, PTR 91s run as do the PTR 9s.  Some guys say blast away with a clone, others are all HK.  Your money and I doubt that you will ever wear out a gun either way.

What are y'alls experiences with HKs in general and wisdom that you can give? Thanks in advance everybody!  Spend a bunch of time reading about them before you drop the loot.

[Frank Iannamico]

There was a series of HK conversion articles published in SAR magazine

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2989

 

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3010

 

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3041

 

[Born loser...in Montana]

5 hours ago, Frank Iannamico said:

There was a series of HK conversion articles published in SAR magazine

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2989

 

 

 

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3010

 

 

 

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3041

 

 

 Corvette Guy...? What year?

Great source of knowledge. 

For anyone wanting to know. 

 

[Frank Iannamico]

6 hours ago, Born loser...in Montana said:

 Corvette Guy...? What year?

Great source of knowledge. 

For anyone wanting to know. 

 

The first one: This article first appeared in Small Arms Review V3N9 (June 2000) and was posted online on May 1, 2015

Edited July 15, 2022 by Frank Iannamico

[Got Uzi]

Fleming, Qualified, and S&H are your go to sears.  A DLO pack is a good option too if you can find one.

PTR's make great host guns.  Sometimes you have to tweak them, but that goes with any sear host (it happens)  PTR also makes the 308 guns so there is your source for box fed magazine 308 guns.

You are correct-you get your sear in a pack and swap the pack between hosts.  If you want to go from caliber to caliber you will need to swap hammer springs (rifle or pistol caliber springs) and you will have to swap out your ejector lever (9mm, 40/10, 223, 308, belt fed)

Having a couple factory HK host guns is nice, but most guys I know only have them for bragging rights and to be "hk snobs" who look down on non-HK host guns....but are the same ones running PTR or other clone guns so their perfect HK's never get dirty.  Similar situation to the guys who own Colt Thompson's and look down on others as inferrior, but they shoot a West Hurley so their Colt doesn't get hurt LOL

[jbntex]

Personally if I was looking to purchase an HK sear given the cost now-days I would really only consider a stamped steel Fleming "H SN# series",  a stamped steel Qualified "K SN# series" or an S&H (which are cast).

The Fleming H and Qualified K are identical other than the markings as they were made on the same machine/process based off a conversation I had with Bill many years back.  I have a couple of the Fleming and one of the Qualified other and than the electro-pencil markings you couldn't tell them apart.

Fleming made some barstock milled sears as well. 

These Fleming milled sears seem to be primarily in the registered receiver guns where the semi shelf may nor may not have been removed and the gun converted to push pin.   I have personally only seen in person milled bar stock Fleming sears that were part of a registered receiver conversion but have heard there may be some standalone registered milled Fleming sears as well. The Fleming milled barstock sears are much rougher looking and more crude dimensionally than the later generation stamped sears based on the small number I have personally looked at.

IMHO I would put the stamped Fleming H and Qualified K series at the top of the pack. 

The S&H sears are good as well but based off my exposure to them they are a bit rough looking compared to the stamped Fleming and Qualified sears.  I have also seen them with the standard (non-burst) hammer catch ledge welded up as they may bit softer material  vs. the stamped Fleming/Qualified sears.  

The S&H sears work just fine in my experience, but if somebody was offering me a stamped Fleming/Qualified or a cast S&H for the same money I would take the Fleming/Qualified sear over the S&H personally.

Sears to avoid at the $35,000+  price tag range.

- Sears that have been welded cut on. (If the sear is coming in a burst pack the sear needs to be checked closely to see if it was modded/welded up for install into a burst pack)
- Friction sears that have been converted to roller sears
- Fleming Barstock Milled Sears
- Sears where the serial number of the sear is an HK 9X serial number (as these were most likely separated from their previously permanently married host gun and may have legal pedigree issues)
- Sears where the sear "trip" is integral to the sear body itself.

I would personally suggest folks who are not super well versed in HK conversions and sears stay away from these units above and if somebody was purchasing one it would need to come at a significant discount.

Overall its pretty hard to go wrong with an unmolested Fleming H, Qualified K, or S&H in a S-E-F or 0-1-A ambi pack.

As for hosts, if you don't want any potential problems than German hosts are the way to go.  They pretty much just run and german parts will pretty much always be plug and play with german host guns.  The german HK guns are honestly also nicer in terms of fit and finish compared to most of the clones. Weld are better, receiver lines are crisper/straighter, cocking tubes straighter, engraving/stamping nicer, etc.  

Functionally many of the clone guns may run out of the box, some will run once you troubleshoot out any gremlins but again in my experience you may need to swap out part and/or troubleshoot them.  I have a mix of German and clone hosts and the German made HKs just run. On the HK guns stocks install with no problems, grip frames mate up with no issues, cocking tubes are straight, bolt gap is good, sights are straight, etc.  My PTR, Vector, etc. clones have needed bolt group parts replaced, locking pieces changed out, receivers tweaked so stocks fit, front shelves shimmed or thinned, etc.

If a HK host worth 3X+ or more than a clone its hard to say but nothing sucks more than taking your HK Sear out to the range and putting it into a cheap clone host and it doesn't work and you get ribbed by your friends that "you paid $40K for that".

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

 

 

[Corvette Guy]

19 hours ago, Born loser...in Montana said:

 Corvette Guy...? What year?

I had a C6 and I just sold it as I'm looking for a C2.