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Reising 50 questions


Abody711

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I’m looking for my first full auto firearm. I had decided Reising 50 would be a good entry point.  The firearm must be fully transferable.

I ran across an article on small talk firearms site that states:

”The area where the auto-connector hooked onto the action bar was redesigned for better durability. A larger threescrew trigger guard was added along with a larger knurled take-down screw and a two-piece rear bumper plug/guide rod was utilized to alleviate the earlier breakages associated with the one-piece plugs.”

All of the available Reisings I have found for sale are early models. My question is how much weight should these statements be given in my selection process. Also can retrofits be done to update the early models.

 

Thanks in advance for any input.

Allen

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The Model 50 Reisings are often mistakenly referred to as the "Police or Commercial" and "Military" models, the "Police-commercial" models being early production, many of which went to the USMC. BOTH models were used by the police and military. "Police and Military" model designations were never used by H&R it's simply a term someone coined years ago and it has stuck. A more correct term would be first and second models...BTW S prefix guns, made in 1957, are NOT all "Numrich" guns... ---end of rant---

The Second model evolved primarily from input from the Marine Corps, with many of the upgrades you mentioned, many of the documents requesting the upgrades are reprinted in the Reising book below.

Reising book, I think they still have some left

https://www.chipotlepublishing.com/product/the-reising-submachine-gun-story/

    ARTICLES 

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=248

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=292

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1510

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2856
 

REISING SITE  lot of info here

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showforum=5

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9688

Reising Dates of Production

1941 Serial Numbers: 101-8500
1942 Serial Numbers: 8501-73600
1943 Serial Numbers: 73601-114317

1950 Serial Numbers: K101 to K973
1951 Serial Numbers: L101 to L3589
1952: No production
1953 Serial Numbers: N111 to N327
1954-1956: No production
1957 Serial Numbers: S4700 to S5607

Marine Contracts:

NOm 33387 - 2 February 1942: 2,000 each Model 55 Reising submachine guns.

NOm 33660 - 26 February 1942: 11,500 Model 55, and 11,500 Model 50 Reising submachine guns.

NOm 36828 - 13 July 1942: 20,000 Model 55, and 5,000 Model 50 Reising submachine guns.

NOm 37893 - 13 October 1942: 30,000 Model 50 Reising submachine guns (plus a 3,000 overrun).

 

Edited by Frank Iannamico
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Reising 50 isn't typically the best for the first MG, but they can run really nice.

Typically a non modified Reising 50 breaks firing pins. You want to do the upgrade (which is extremely easy) to make your firing pin a floating/inertia firing pin.
http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8854

Some Reising is picky on the magazine feedlips. Mine wouldn't fit a Christie magazine but would fit a Keystone 30rd magazine. 

Be prepared for sticker shock on the magazine prices. Keep an eye out Keystone's website (or try contacting them directly) to see when they will release another batch of 30rd magazines. The last batch ran great.. I bought 6 and I think I've used 4 and all had no problems out of the packaging (pleasantly surprised).

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6 hours ago, Ryo said:

Reising 50 isn't typically the best for the first MG, but they can run really nice.

Typically a non modified Reising 50 breaks firing pins. You want to do the upgrade (which is extremely easy) to make your firing pin a floating/inertia firing pin.
http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8854

Some Reising is picky on the magazine feedlips. Mine wouldn't fit a Christie magazine but would fit a Keystone 30rd magazine. 

Be prepared for sticker shock on the magazine prices. Keep an eye out Keystone's website (or try contacting them directly) to see when they will release another batch of 30rd magazines. The last batch ran great.. I bought 6 and I think I've used 4 and all had no problems out of the packaging (pleasantly surprised).

There is a Guy over on Machinegunboards that makes an adapter so that you can use the Promag 22 Uzi 45acp mAgs. From what I’ve read they work extremely well. So there are some other mag options. I believe his user name is Dougstump? Good luck OP

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4 hours ago, 3rdmardiv said:

During combat the military had problems with the Reising mainly because they were prone to jamming under typical combat conditions.  Unless you plan to shoot it with mud involved, you should be fine.

The problem with the Marine Reisings was the USMC themselves. In true Marine fashion, they didn’t realize the guns were assembled and tuned per gun. When you strip down a bunch of guns and put all the bolts in a bucket for cleaning, just how many of the guns MIGHT get their original bolt back? Might be a problem, ya think?

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12 hours ago, Shattered said:

The problem with the Marine Reisings was the USMC themselves. In true Marine fashion, they didn’t realize the guns were assembled and tuned per gun. When you strip down a bunch of guns and put all the bolts in a bucket for cleaning, just how many of the guns MIGHT get their original bolt back? Might be a problem, ya think?

Exactly.. I'd say this is more the issue than getting them dirty. They sped the process and didn't design it to be interchangeable parts. 

I'm always surprised that the Reising 50 market prices hasn't jumped greater than $10k yet. It is actually great SMG especially for the price..

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To the original poster... now that you've bought one, while you're waiting for the transfer to be completed buy Frank's book, any mags you can find (especially originals), firing pins and a Wolf spring kit.  Years ago I paid $3500 for a 1942 blued Reising, 4 original 20 rd. mags, Fed Labs hard case and what is probably a Thompson cleaning rod.  At the time I probably paid too much but time has corrected that mistake.  When I took it to the range the first time the gun ran like shit.  A new Wolf spring kit made it run better.  New, stiff springs in the old mags made it run even better.  It still has hiccups now and then but it is a Reising so it can be expected.  The original firing pins do break easily.  I have a lathe so I made a bunch of spares and always take a couple of extras to the range.  Let us know how it goes.

Good luck,

Kevin in NC

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The rule of thumb here is don't fix it if it ain't broke.  If the gun doesn't work send it to a competent gunsmith.  Don't immediately replace springs with off spec wolf springs, don't continue to replace firing pins with either faulty replacements or without fixing the gun.  If the gun repeatedly breaks pins it's not the pin it's a gun problem.  I've yet to replace any parts in any of mine.  I'd assume you vetted the gun before purchasing?  Blued finish is correct for most Reisings IIRC, but buying Franks book will be the best money you'll spend.

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18 hours ago, Kevin Bartlett said:

To the original poster... now that you've bought one, while you're waiting for the transfer to be completed buy Frank's book, any mags you can find (especially originals), firing pins and a Wolf spring kit.  Years ago I paid $3500 for a 1942 blued Reising, 4 original 20 rd. mags, Fed Labs hard case and what is probably a Thompson cleaning rod.  At the time I probably paid too much but time has corrected that mistake.  When I took it to the range the first time the gun ran like shit.  A new Wolf spring kit made it run better.  New, stiff springs in the old mags made it run even better.  It still has hiccups now and then but it is a Reising so it can be expected.  The original firing pins do break easily.  I have a lathe so I made a bunch of spares and always take a couple of extras to the range.  Let us know how it goes.

Good luck,

Kevin in NC

For your firing pin.. you really should look at this post.  http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8854

The main reason for breakage is the stress of the firing pin being compressed between the primer of the casing and the hammer. The inertia firing pin mod eliminates this issue. It has been reliable for me.

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Roy, would love to read the article. Have been waiting 4 days on administrator to approve my account.

59 minutes ago, Ryo said:

For your firing pin.. you really should look at this post.  http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8854

The main reason for breakage is the stress of the firing pin being compressed between the primer of the casing and the hammer. The inertia firing pin mod eliminates this issue. It has been reliable for me.

 

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It is a long article so I'll just give you the cliff notes version from my memory of the discussion on that site.. 

His was having a problem with ejecting casing getting stuck under the firing pin which was protruding forward. 

Later he talks about pins breakage and how the firing pin can bend when contacting between the primer and hammer. The solution was to file down the back of the firing pin until when the hammer was fully forward,the firing pin would not touch the primer of the bullet. Very easy mod. 

 Note that for some reason on mine that the firing pin didn't go backward enough for the hammer to hit it so I filed the slot on the side of the firing pin to allow the spring to push it back far enough. I am the only person I heard of that had to do this... 

 

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6 hours ago, Ryo said:

For your firing pin.. you really should look at this post.  http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8854

The main reason for breakage is the stress of the firing pin being compressed between the primer of the casing and the hammer. The inertia firing pin mod eliminates this issue. It has been reliable for me.

I saw that post several years ago.  After that I made a couple of pins a bit shorter.  I don't shoot it as much as I used to which may explain why I've not broken a firing pin in a long time.  Mine used to run great on the steel cased Wolf when that stuff was available cheap.

Kevin in NC

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13 hours ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

The rule of thumb here is don't fix it if it ain't broke.  If the gun doesn't work send it to a competent gunsmith.  Don't immediately replace springs with off spec wolf springs, don't continue to replace firing pins with either faulty replacements or without fixing the gun.  If the gun repeatedly breaks pins it's not the pin it's a gun problem.  I've yet to replace any parts in any of mine.  I'd assume you vetted the gun before purchasing?  Blued finish is correct for most Reisings IIRC, but buying Franks book will be the best money you'll spend.

I agree that leaving things as they are is sometimes but not always the best course of action.  Before changing the mag springs I frequently had failures to feed the last 2 or 3 rounds of a 20 round mag.  Stiffer mag springs corrected that.  Changing springs should be within the capabilities of any Reising owner.  It is relatively cheap and does not permanently alter the gun.  Frank states in his book on pages 193-194 "This spring kit will prove invaluable for putting new life back into a tired Reising."  There are competent gunsmiths who know the Reising and I mean no disrespect to them but why Form 5 your gun to a gunsmith and wait weeks or months to get it back when you might just be able to fix it yourself in 15 minutes?  When you get your gun, take it to the range and shoot it.  If it works fine, then great.  If not, field strip it and see if you can figure it out. You need to learn how your gun works anyway.  Good luck.  Keep us informed.

Kevin in NC 

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11 hours ago, Kevin Bartlett said:

I agree that leaving things as they are is sometimes but not always the best course of action.  Before changing the mag springs I frequently had failures to feed the last 2 or 3 rounds of a 20 round mag.  Stiffer mag springs corrected that.  Changing springs should be within the capabilities of any Reising owner.  It is relatively cheap and does not permanently alter the gun.  Frank states in his book on pages 193-194 "This spring kit will prove invaluable for putting new life back into a tired Reising."  There are competent gunsmiths who know the Reising and I mean no disrespect to them but why Form 5 your gun to a gunsmith and wait weeks or months to get it back when you might just be able to fix it yourself in 15 minutes?  When you get your gun, take it to the range and shoot it.  If it works fine, then great.  If not, field strip it and see if you can figure it out. You need to learn how your gun works anyway.  Good luck.  Keep us informed.

Kevin in NC 

First off you don't form 5 (not for the last 20 years anyhow) to a smith.  Second, of the couple hundred guns I've handled 50% didn't function well, some not at all, so the odds of the "home" gun smith going well, and changing out parts at the range is a really bad idea.  Change ammo, change mags, change your stance, maybe change bolts or big parts but the concept of changing springs in the field is left to new guys.....unless it's maybe a main spring.  Changing a mag spring likely made up for a magazine feed lip issue and would be a stopgap measure at best.  Course I do love buying non working guns at a discount so keep on fixing and modifying guns from their original configuration and assume your skill set is better than the original designers.   :)

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You definitely don't form 5 to the gunsmith. 

The replacement of springs is not a unusual thing. Doing minor swap out to test is not a big deal. I would do it and learn a bit more about your MG. If it does t work then send it out for repair and now you got spare parts you can keep or sell later on when they become more scarce. 

Personally I would swap the spring out immediately unless your just wanting to do the troubleshooting. I prefer less fiddling and more shooting at the range. I think a lot of things can be determined at home or shop. 

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