Elduque

Looking for 1st Machine Gun

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Hi All, I am new to the forum but I have been enjoying reading so far.  I am in the market for my first full auto.  I have been looking here and there but not sure what i want to go with.  I am on a budget up to $20k and i have a FFL.  Any good first pieces or anything i need to look out for?  Considering MACs, Thompsons, Uzis, or maybe something else. Pre May or Full transferable.  I just want something reliable, fun to shoot and in a pistol caliber.  Any help would be appreciated.

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Just make damned sure you get Proof they actually have the gun. Scammers are trolling here and Everywhere on the web and they are going to contact you and try to take your money. Get Clear Images with your email address written on a small piece of paper laying right on top of the Gun. Also get a copy of the current Transfer Form and verify All Info with NFA Branch - they will tell you if the info does Not match. Talk to the poster on the phone to determine if he has a Nigerian or other strange accent. Does he know anything about guns and the transfer process? He should know a lot about what he is trying to sell. Is he calling from a weird VOIP Google Phone or some other non-standard modality? Get Verifiable References from this Board or another reputable site - do Not rely on an easily stolen Identity from Gun-Broker, etc... Be smart and save your $$$. Don't become the latest victim of Scammers!

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Hi Elduque

We should all caution you that there's no such thing as buying one Machine gun. Once you get that first one, you will buy more and more until you run out of room in your safe-and then some.

If your budget is indeed 20 K my suggestion is to invest in a transferable M16 variant. The reason I say that is because that single gun can be used in more calibers and in more configurations than any other, and there is a wide range of aftermarket parts and accessories available today.


A second choice would be an Uzi in the standard size, for which there are also many configurations and parts available. However, at the end of the day, it is not nearly as versatile as the M16 and parts are becoming more and more expensive over time for that platform. The advantage is you would get into it for significantly less money then with the M16.  

Although I myself consider Thompson's the crème de la crème of fun guns to shoot and on, it's not a good first and only gun as the platform is limiting and the ammunition more expensive than a 9 mm such as with an uzi or M16.

my suggestion would be to spend some time and track down a quality converted lower or even possibly a Colt M16A1 although that last one will be hard to find in your price range.  The best conversions are those made on the forged lowers, such as a conversion of a Sendra receiver (many of which were done by bushmaster). Conversions on the cast lowers, such as the eagle arms, or on the colt SP1 large pivot pin lower, are not as good but should be priced less as well.

And as said above, be careful of scammers. Make sure that you check the references of the seller and/or ask for recent photos of the item you were buying together with the form 3/4 and something indicating that picture was taken by the person sending the photos. And obviously do not pay for anything through Western Union.

 

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Posted (edited)

+1 on the M16. As mentioned previously, nothing is more modular and easily able to swap calibers, pistol and rifle.

Perhaps the biggest advantage is that the parts availability for the platform is endless. 

And for your budget, you're just at the cusp of where they are right now. Get one while the getting's good.

Edited by Craigan

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Best advice? Find some of these guns on your list and shoot them before making a decision. Each gun has it's + and -.

In general, the Uzi would be a great first SMG. It's built like a tank, super reliable and you'll still have lots of money left over for mags, accessories and ammo.

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Thanks for making me feel welcome guys.  I appreciate the responses.  I can tell it's going to be a task to find the right gun, at the right price, from a reputable dealer/individual.  So many variables. I need to do more research to get higher on the learning curve.  In the mean time, thanks for putting up with my green horns.  

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With $20,000 I'd suggest a M16. With that one lower you can have everything from a 22lr through a belt fed 5.56 and pretty much everything else in between. Even a 9mm belt fed now. So many options, easy to work on, every gun shop in the country has parts for the(ok, maybe not every shop, but damn close). It's the the Mr. Potato head of the gun world. You can pick and choose every piece and part to suit your wants and needs. Easy to plug and play. Gives you by far the most bang for your buck. Now of course which lower should you look for could be a whole new set of questions, there is another thread where someone just asked this same sort of question for which M16 lower would be best. 

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Why don't you just get your SOT (fill out a half sheet paper and pay $500) and you can buy Pre Samples which are better than most transferable. You can get two or more machine guns for $20K. Just sayin!

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58 minutes ago, RCM Limited said:

Why don't you just get your SOT (fill out a half sheet paper and pay $500) and you can buy Pre Samples which are better than most transferable. You can get two or more machine guns for $20K. Just sayin!

True but you can't really buy a presample M16.  There are very very few of those.  

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Posted (edited)

Misread the FFL 

Edited by damcv62

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2 hours ago, damcv62 said:

You really shouldn't say things like this on an open forum. The ATF takes a very dim view of what you are suggesting, and have put people in jail for tax evasion. Sure there is some options that come open to someone who is in the business of selling or making firearms, but to just say get an SOT to someone who says they are new to the NFA world is opening a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. And the requirements to meet to even get an FFL are a lot harder then what they once were, so it's not just a half sheet of paper and $500. O.o

That's not correct. If you have your FFL then getting your SOT is as easy as writing the check for $500 and filling out the form.  But we shouldn't discuss these things here because ATF will find out. They don't know any of this.

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3 hours ago, damcv62 said:

You really shouldn't say things like this on an open forum. The ATF takes a very dim view of what you are suggesting, and have put people in jail for tax evasion. Sure there is some options that come open to someone who is in the business of selling or making firearms, but to just say get an SOT to someone who says they are new to the NFA world is opening a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. And the requirements to meet to even get an FFL are a lot harder then what they once were, so it's not just a half sheet of paper and $500. O.o

Usually I would not respond to comments like this. However, you assumed that the new SOT would not be interested in making a profit. You assumption is completely incorrect. It was not my intent to imply that, the fact that you inferred is not accurate.  The guy already has an FFL, one of the questions you must answer in order to obtain an FFL originally is to agree you are getting the FFL to make a profit. Since you are in the business to make a profit then why not expand into the SOT market. Getting a Pre is just a way to demo certain guns for prospective customers. That was the purpose of obtaining a Pre Sample in the first place. FWIW!

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1 hour ago, philasteen said:

That's not correct. If you have your FFL then getting your SOT is as easy as writing the check for $500 and filling out the form.  But we shouldn't discuss these things here because ATF will find out. They don't know any of this.

My mistake. I read the new to NFA and took the comment that he had an FFL to use. 

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45 minutes ago, RCM Limited said:

Usually I would not respond to comments like this. However, you assumed that the new SOT would not be interested in making a profit. You assumption is completely incorrect. It was not my intent to imply that, the fact that you inferred is not accurate.  The guy already has an FFL, one of the questions you must answer in order to obtain an FFL originally is to agree you are getting the FFL to make a profit. Since you are in the business to make a profit then why not expand into the SOT market. Getting a Pre is just a way to demo certain guns for prospective customers. That was the purpose of obtaining a Pre Sample in the first place. FWIW!

Totally agree. I edited my comment. Misread what he had typed. 

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On 3/30/2016 at 4:39 PM, philasteen said:

Hi Elduque

We should all caution you that there's no such thing as buying one Machine gun. Once you get that first one, you will buy more and more until you run out of room in your safe-and then some.

If your budget is indeed 20 K my suggestion is to invest in a transferable M16 variant. The reason I say that is because that single gun can be used in more calibers and in more configurations than any other, and there is a wide range of aftermarket parts and accessories available today.


A second choice would be an Uzi in the standard size, for which there are also many configurations and parts available. However, at the end of the day, it is not nearly as versatile as the M16 and parts are becoming more and more expensive over time for that platform. The advantage is you would get into it for significantly less money then with the M16.  

Although I myself consider Thompson's the crème de la crème of fun guns to shoot and on, it's not a good first and only gun as the platform is limiting and the ammunition more expensive than a 9 mm such as with an uzi or M16.

my suggestion would be to spend some time and track down a quality converted lower or even possibly a Colt M16A1 although that last one will be hard to find in your price range.  The best conversions are those made on the forged lowers, such as a conversion of a Sendra receiver (many of which were done by bushmaster). Conversions on the cast lowers, such as the eagle arms, or on the colt SP1 large pivot pin lower, are not as good but should be priced less as well.

And as said above, be careful of scammers. Make sure that you check the references of the seller and/or ask for recent photos of the item you were buying together with the form 3/4 and something indicating that picture was taken by the person sending the photos. And obviously do not pay for anything through Western Union.

 

All the above is sage advice.

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 great to see all the response to the new guy! best part, all sensible clear advice  m16 is the deal if a pistol; cal is part of the final goal.   what i see is most start with a sub gun of some sort  then move up or quit. the ability to convert to a rifle cal with the same rec adds incentive to move up a scale for little cost. it might help to add that he gets a rifle cal rec NOT A 9MM LOWER.  so he can move up.   i have had nfa weapons since 1963 and agree 100% with all you guys.  when I'm asked the question, i always mention the 1919 browning's  as an option if rifle cal is the bottom line.   SADLY CANT STRESS THE WARNINGS ABOUT THE SCAM ARTISTS ENOUGH.

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I say the M16 as well. Can't beat it for versatility. Finding a factory Colt gun under $20k may be difficult though. Finding a conversion won't be hard though. I've got a Sendra conversion that runs like a champ .

If you don't do the M16, the Uzi is the next I'd recommend. Make sure to get a properly converted registered receiver, with the blocking bar removed. I'd avoid any married slotted bolt gun or registered bolts.

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You need to go to one of the big shoots and try them all then take your pick of what you liked. 

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If you are looking for a pistol caliber, I would opt for an M11/9 with a Lage slow fire upper that uses the Suomi drums.  You can get both for less than $20k and have some left for ammo.  They are very robust, parts are cheap and are great fun to shoot.

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The biggest problem with the M-16 platform is all the other uppers you will buy for it. That could very well keep you from buying other types of machine guns as the money comes available.

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Posted (edited)

Buy a factory M16.  Do not drag your feet.  Prices seem to increase monthly.  Borrow the difference to get enough if that is what it takes.  You will never regret it.  Most of us can attest that there are few joys greater than firing an automatic rifle.  Buy from a reputable dealer here on the boards.  Good luck.

Edited by J237
Spelling.

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I am a sub gun fan and I haven't seen anybody mention it, but a Sterling is a great choice.  They are still fairly reasonable, magazines are as well and they are excellent, and the parts kits are still available.  They are the best sleeper on the market is there is such a thing anymore.

When it comes to all around use, I would choose my Sterling over my others.  They are smooth as silk and normally rock solid reliable.

Also I agree with the others, don't even think for a minute you will stop at 1.  My MP40 was my first 22 years ago, but it sure hasn't been the last.  Luck others have said, shoot a few before you decide. Good luck with your choices.

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Posted (edited)

On March 30, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Elduque said:

Hi All, I am new to the forum but I have been enjoying reading so far.  I am in the market for my first full auto.  I have been looking here and there but not sure what i want to go with.  I am on a budget up to $20k and i have a FFL.  Any good first pieces or anything i need to look out for?  Considering MACs, Thompsons, Uzis, or maybe something else. Pre May or Full transferable.  I just want something reliable, fun to shoot and in a pistol caliber.  Any help would be appreciated.

If you can do Pre May samples, you have a lot of great options. HK MP5 and HK53's are top quality and super reliable. Parts and mags readily available. I have several for sale.

Thompsons, UZI's & S&W 76 are great choices for open bolt pistol caliber smg's. MP40's and M3A1's are a lot of fun as well

Edited by BDMERC
autocorrect!

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RR AR as first machine gun is the way to go, under your stipulations. You can practically have a new MG by wrapping uppers. And you can abuse the hell out of the gun, since the upper is replaceable. Just be careful if kabooms.

MP5 is good as first MG, too. They're absolutely awesome. More finicky than the AR platform, but very cool. For about $2500-$5000 more than your budget you can get a RR MP5, although there are some significant downsides to a RR MP5, they're still veryfun and awesome.

I can't decide which one I like better: the MP5 or the M16/AR.

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