Mockingbird Precision

Off The Market / Please Remove

Location: Houston, Texas

30 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Off The Market / Please Remove

 

Edited by Mockingbird Precision

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have the letter or is it the old MGA "letter"

Can you post it? I think for the asking 250K most would like to see it.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not to throw stones, but was this one of the semi m249s that the ATF went on a spree so seizing? 

 

There was an original letter that made it appear that this was an ok combo, then guidance afterward saying that it was a no -no. t

 

old thread on this combo

an article on grimes

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20170427/ohioan-charged-in-sale-of-62-sniper-rifles-to-mexican-buyers

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Rory said:

not to throw stones, but was this one of the semi m249s that the ATF went on a spree so seizing?

The ATF never seized the MGA guns. They sold them on here and said they had a letter but never produced it. I even asked to see it when I was in the building and said they couldn't find it.

If this guy has a letter it would be amazing to see.

Edited by taylorwso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about the gun but I do know that Mockingbird is legit.  I've purchased two HK53s from him in the past from Eugene Stoners collection.  Still have one.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, taylorwso said:

The ATF never seized the MGA guns. They sold them on here and said they had a letter but never produced it. I even asked to see it when I was in the building and said they couldn't find it.

If this guy has a letter it would be amazing to see.

I have the first letter. It clearly stated that a “registered” sear could be used. Which MGA blindly claimed meant that a transferable sear was legal. It wasn’t. In the context of the letter they were referring to a post sample. 
 

This is not a legal set up IMHO. As always, buyer beware. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, taylorwso said:

The ATF never seized the MGA guns. They sold them on here and said they had a letter but never produced it. I even asked to see it when I was in the building and said they couldn't find it.

If this guy has a letter it would be amazing to see.

The ATF came to my house to seize mine, and anything else that was procured from or related to Eric Grimes. I bought it before I was a licensee and sold it right before i received my license. So i had no remaining record ow who it went to other than to an FFL in California. So your idea of they never seized the guns inaccurate. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, damcv62 said:

I have the first letter. It clearly stated that a “registered” sear could be used. Which MGA blindly claimed meant that a transferable sear was legal. It wasn’t. In the context of the letter they were referring to a post sample. 
 

This is not a legal set up IMHO. As always, buyer beware. 

can you post/ PM the letter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Rory said:

The ATF came to my house to seize mine, and anything else that was procured from or related to Eric Grimes. I bought it before I was a licensee and sold it right before i received my license. So i had no remaining record ow who it went to other than to an FFL in California. So your idea of they never seized the guns inaccurate. 

 Your the first person that Ive ever heard of that the ATF visited for the MGA stuff even though they did a lot of shady stuff. One of the guys is now dead.

Edited by taylorwso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to answer your private pm publicly too. 

i had a semi that eric grimes built for me. mix of my parts and his. 

grimes was building for mga. atf came as part of their investigation and wanted to leave with the gun that i no longer owned. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn it would suck to have something worth so much and at the same time, possibly worth 10 years.  I'm thinking if I owned this thing, I'd keep my head down...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Grimes guy was a pos.  He screwed lots of people over including several I knew.  He was here near me.  I visited once to have him do some work at the reccomendation of another ffl.  Something just didn't feel right and confirmed when I looked at the fake ffl on the wall.   It was time to go and I left and took my shit.  Thank God. ATF actually asked me about him at my audit that year because of a reciept for some parts I bought from him.  I told them what I saw.

He  took me for a tour though all the shit he had laying around full autos etc.  Had atleast a hundred 249 receivers all around some fa some semi said he had a govt contract.  Where did it all go if you look at the court indictment they only listed like 4 full autos sized there.  There were over 100 when I saw his place shortly before the raid.  Trouble is he had lots if hk parts kits a stamping machine and supposadly the 53 reciever dies.  Plus lots of other parts kits barrels etc a almost warehouse full of good stuff I guess lost for ever.

Anyway I believe the reason atf siezed those semi 249's guns is he made them then illegally with no liscense and stamped another ffl's mfg on them.  Mostlikley without thier knowing.  He supposadly also made a bunch of ar15 lowers as well with fake info also

Not sure about this one listed above and a letter saying it's OK with this sn sear.  Also he's doesn't say hk sear but calls it a "transferrable trigger" that can also be used in a hk gun?  Sound like a sear or pack to me.  Plus I'm pretty sure semi 249's didn't exist before 86 so how could one have registered a transferrable trigger for such a designated host?  I just asking maybe someone did a homebuild and registered the trigger or something as the sn part?  

Would been to have to see the paper work and sn item on this one but if its legit it would could be worth over 100.  Supposadly there is trans pkm reweld in the books.  So imagine that price.  I hope this one is legit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jec, 

 

see, he made me feel pretty good. when i walked into his shop with a pile of parts that i got from gunbroker, he pointed out that i had full auto rails and what i had was not the most legal item to have. so little experience with the platform i had no idea. he pulled out a cutting torch and took care of it right there in front of me. then offered to help with my build at a discount to assist in my issue. then helped me with the person i bought it from to get a credit back for the parts that had to be destroyed. i saw the ffl on the wall but did not inspect it. 

 

either way, for those that think that the guns were not confiscated, i can tell you first hand that the ATF did intend to do so with mine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

"ATF letter (with actual serial number) will be provided to the successful buyer. Currently on a Form 4 ready for immediate transfer."

The OP could go a long way in helping clear things up if he would provide a public picture of said ATF letter above!!!!!!

Edited by maxfaxdude
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

back to the original post... what is a transferable trigger? This is the 

will you post form4 info without the serial number? 

 

 

lightening link

sears

trigger box (dlo and smith) 

m2 carbine bars 

etc but ive not seen a registered trigger

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Frank Goepert had a MAC "registered trigger" installed in an MGA MK48 host for sale many years back.   I presume this registered trigger is probably one of the same.

There was a letter that if I recall correctly said something to the effect of this registered machinegun conversion device was a drop in trigger to convert  the MAC series of pre-81 open bolt semi auto firearms to a machinegun and led up to the crux of the question which was "is legal for the owner to remove the registered trigger serial number xxxxx from its current semi-auto MAC receiver and move it to a new semi-auto firearm as long as no modifications are made to the new host receiver?" 

However, the letter didn't  clearly outline the plan to move it from an open bolt MAC to a closed bolt MK48   The ATFs response was as long as the registered trigger is moved to a new semi-auto receiver and the semi-auto receiver does not require any modifications for the registered trigger.  i.e. it can't be moved to a new style closed bolt MAC because that would require mods to the closed bolt MAC receiver making it a machinegun itself.

It was pretty cleverly worded where the whole lead up to the host movement question was clearly centered around the MAC family and the usual vague response from the ATF did indeed say it was legal to move the trigger to a new host but they didn't go to the length to say new "MAC" host because the whole context of the letter was about MACs.

The owners then took the response as carte-blanche to move the registered MAC trigger to whatever host they wanted.....and so they did.   I have no idea what happened to that gun but I believe it sold to somebody for a 6 figure amount.

That said I have no idea what this guns letter says and maybe it clearly says you can move this registered (presumably MAC) trigger serial number xxxx to a belt fed semi-auto M249 host.

Edit found one of the historical discussions on these when one of these registered MAC triggers popped up in a SCAR-17. Copies of some of the ATF correspondence letters are here as well.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Transferable_SCAR_17_on_Sturmgewehr/22-446325/?page=1

 

Edited by jbntex
link added

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Rory said:

either way, for those that think that the guns were not confiscated, i can tell you first hand that the ATF did intend to do so with mine. 

Im not saying the ATF wont confiscate guns but the OP has a MGA 249, which I'm pretty sure have never been confiscated.

After your PM and JECs post it sounds like grimes was making guns under the "MGA name" w/o a FFL and is a no no. There is a old picture on the net where you can see the name on the receiver and its not the same as the MGA guns form SLC, even though it has "MGA" on it.

The more I hear about MGA and who they are connected with, it blows my mind.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gents,

Here is a copy of the redacted letter. Buyer will get the non redacted letter. 

Image (343).jpg

Image (344).jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Mockingbird Precision said:

Gents,

Here is a copy of the redacted letter. Buyer will get the non redacted letter.

 

The non redacted pages for the M11 triggers  are posted at the link above shared by jbntex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This letter is misleading, and the owner of the gun knows it. The owner goes around trying to find gullible dealers who will attempt to sell his gun.
 

According to what’s been told to me by other dealers who he has approached, the owner got stuck in this gun for $149,000 and is trying to find a way out. He been turned down by other brokers/dealers who have told him this gun is not transferable or illegal. 
 

The triggers in question are Broadhead armory triggers that are specifically for MACs. They cannot be installed in any gun, just in any semi auto MAC that is not modified. 
 

This is especially misleading because the owner is also aware of another letter from ATF specially denying the legality of installing these triggers into anything other than a MAC. 

 

This sale offer pops up now and then, whenever the owner is able to find a gullible dealer. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Machineguntony said:

Why does the ATF keep approving transfers if true?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, AndrewsArmoryllc said:

 

ATF has no reason to believe the item being transferred is anything other than the trigger by itself.   You can transfer an AR15 DIAS, but that doesnt mean you can install it in a AR10, or an FNC sear and in stall it in a SCAR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

edited

Edited by Machineguntony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mockingbird Precision said:

Gents,

Here is a copy of the redacted letter. Buyer will get the non redacted letter. 

Image (343).jpg

Image (344).jpg

The ole redacted letter MG conversion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve already posted the unredacted letter here…

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Transferable_SCAR_17_on_Sturmgewehr/22-446325/?page=1

This is a straight up scam that’s been going around for years. 
 

This letter is also relevant and conveniently left out. Len Savage tried to do the same registered trigger + post 86 host combo…

https://imgur.com/a/vKFJjWc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see any refrence to a 249 semi installation allowed in the letter.or referred to as a registered trigger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Lot of great info in this thread ….. below is the link to the 2016 discussion on here regarding putting HK Sears in M249 hosts … I would think the same applies if these Trigger devices are in fact MAC triggers … just my opinion 

 

Aaron - Mohnton, Pa 

Edited by Aaron in Mohnton Pa

  Aaron - Mohnton, Pa  |  BeltFeds.Com, LLC / Stryker Defense  |  FFL 07 / 02 SOT 

  Email: Sales@BeltFeds.Com      Phone: 610-983-8257      Website:  https://BeltFeds.Com 

thumbnail (1).jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Machineguntony said:

I’ve already posted the unredacted letter here…

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Transferable_SCAR_17_on_Sturmgewehr/22-446325/?page=1

This is a straight up scam that’s been going around for years. 
 

This letter is also relevant and conveniently left out. Len Savage tried to do the same registered trigger + post 86 host combo…

https://imgur.com/a/vKFJjWc

Good info, but not at all how the MGA gun works, so not relevant to Len's submission.  The biggest problem with the whole thing is that MGA guns don't work from the factory (or at least not long).  If Eric Grimes had a hand in it, it must have been very early on, later guns had nothing to do with Grimes as MGA seemed to somehow churn out some of their own parts in some capacity?  I did look at a partially finished gun at the creek years back and don't recall seeing anything similar to the MGA design in Eric's gun?  That was a  long time ago however and while I was initially interested, meeting him and other info turned me off to buying anything from him.

Not sure what "registered trigger" refers to in the original post, but if it's not an HK sear or trigger pack it won't work in the MGA gun without major mods, or a complete redesign which may or may not be legal depending on what had to be done to make it function.....if it actually does?   I've done extensive work on the MGA platform to make it function without altering the general design.  MGA has been out of business for a while.

Not really sure what's exactly for sale, so the letters may be comparing apples and oranges?  The letters presented also seem to ask somewhat different questions?  As we know letters are letters and only apply to the writer and the specific question so to apply a response from one letter to many other scenarios is not applicable.  Additionally the letters are not public information so they mean nothing other than an opinion of one firearms examiner on a given day, asked a question. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

 Additionally the letters are not public information so they mean nothing other than an opinion of one firearms examiner on a given day, asked a question. 

 

Correct.  The question is, is it worth the risk/reward gamble to the buyer?  Its a host gun worth maybe $6-8k. Add the value of an M11 trigger worth about $6k and this package could be worth considering if priced around $15k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bigbore said:

Correct.  The question is, is it worth the risk/reward gamble to the buyer?  Its a host gun worth maybe $6-8k. Add the value of an M11 trigger worth about $6k and this package could be worth considering if priced around $15k.

I’d argue the trigger might be worthless. These conversions were know to be problematic, no telling what was done to it. 
 

In my honest opinion, this is worth a $250k fine and 10 years in jail. I certainly wouldn’t be openly posting it on an open forum. Some times it’s best to not air ones mistakes for the world to see, never know who is keeping tabs on these sites. YMMV, it’s worth what you paid for, and I did not stay in a holiday inn express last night. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.