Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC

OFASTS 2021 sound off

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Posted (edited)

Sound off if  you are going to OFASTS coming up June 26th & 27th http://www.oklahomafullauto.com/

I'll be there line spot 45 and 46.  I'm the flamethrower guy and will be doing my usual stunt Saturday night.  I discovered a way to amp up the flame to about 50 feet and it's quite impressive.

Edited by Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC

  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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Being on the west coast sucks.. Seems like all the fun events are far from here.

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I'm going to try to make it. 

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Sounds great!!!

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I’ll be there got two pits 

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I’m already here and waiting patiently!

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38 minutes ago, challenger70rt said:

I’m already here and waiting patiently!

That's an early start!  I still have ammo to load and a 12 hour drive.  Leaving tomorrow.


  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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Anybody have some 54r there bringing

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I'll bring the marshmallows  :D 

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Posted (edited)

Post action STIREP.  Shot a pile of .50 BMG, 8mm and .308.  My MG34's performed better than they have ever done due to some recent timing issues that I fixed.  Unfortunately, there was an accident where someone down the line from me on Saturday night shot himself in the hand.  From what I understand, a vertical foregrip came off a subgun and his hand swept in front of the barrel.  Not sure how many holes he got but I was told a tourniquet was applied.

In other news, I was a few line spots over borrowing an allen wrench and one of the line spot workers for this particular line spot swept by my count five people as he was working on what appeared to be a G18 or something along those lines.  I mostly saw it was a Glock and it got pointed in every direction including my head.  I can't say I was 100% on this as I swept my best friend with my MG34 while it was on the bench.  Everyone makes mistakes.  The key is learning and being extra careful.  One mistake can change your life forever.

Last rant, it's never an AD it's ALWAYS an ND when it comes to improper firearm handling.  Drives me nuts when people say Accidental Discharge.  Yeah it was accidental but more importantly it was negligence. 

208586149_10226544326262572_1262934890433082977_n.jpeg

Edited by Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC
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  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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What happened at OFASTS....

Sat night about 15 min before the end of the night shoot my good buddy from Little Rock, Roy (Andy) Andrews ( 02/07, very experienced mg owner) was shooting another friends’ FA Scorpion 9mm (130 gr tracer reloads) when its Knights Armament vertical foregrip suddenly detached. One round went thru his left thenar region ( thumb meat ) and exited thru his 2cd knuckle (MCP joint) obliterating it from point blank range obviously. Fortunately he's a very experienced FA shooter and somehow maintained control of the weapon enough to have not sprayed the other dozen of us on our quad line spots and he kept the barrel downrange.

Had 2 docs immed there- me one of them although I'm pretty worthless wo a CT scanner... the other was an Anesthesiologist who immed applied ulnar and radial pressure to stop the spurting arterial blood which was "significant". It painted the line spots all over. Then got tourniquet from RO....loaded him back of side by side, docs rode with him down gravel road just as massive rain storm hit...ambulance met us at paved road prob 15 min total after shot. Then 30 min to nearest ER. Local ER tried to Heli him out to Tulsa but weather prevented it. So they ground transported him there. 4 hr emergent surgery at 3am done in hopes of saving digits.

He's back in Little Rock now...seeing hand surgeon today. The first surgery was prelim just to reconnect vessels. Don't know if he'll lose index and /or middle fingers- hopefully not.  He'll def. require more surgeries and a long long road to recover. Could use your prayers for sure. 

Interestingly most all of us had shot that scorpion during the day...including the owners’ son 30 min before the accident.

It was a terrible ending to an otherwise great shoot. We skipped sunday shoot and left Sunday obviously. The OFASTS staff was excellent and the entire situation was handled as smoothly and quickly as possible.

Beware of vertical grips on SMGs.

I need to look at my own scorpion's and eval its attachment. I never shoot it...bc its semi

 

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Posted (edited)

This is a correct account.  two hours in a tourniquet hurt like hell.  This is a one second vid my daughter Jacy caught with her iPhone slowed down.  Thank God it didn't happen to the 14 year old kid who shot this same weapon didn't have this happen to him.  As weird as it sounds, I'm actually glad I took the bullets instead of him.

I'm told, but haven't seen the grip yet that its similar to this one which has reportedly taken the hand of another dude using it on a sbr shotgun.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_to4cIIWyMyA0mZKxKRtgY-qwQzRTmps/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15dXDAQCUC_DVNZ68N0wRMtjrBzvLUdBw/view?usp=sharing

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AndrewsArmoryllc
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Man that sucks. Hope your friend recovers use of his digits. 

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9 hours ago, Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC said:

.

208586149_10226544326262572_1262934890433082977_n.jpeg

9 hours ago, Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC said:

 

Interesting way to mount your optic. I went the way of installing a rail. 

HH0FDo2.jpg?1

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1 hour ago, AndrewsArmoryllc said:

This is a correct account.  two hours in a tourniquet hurt like hell.  This is a one second vid my daughter Jacy caught with her iPhone slowed down.  Thank God it didn't happen to the 14 year old kid who shot this same weapon didn't have this happen to him.  As weird as it sounds, I'm actually glad I took the bullets instead of him.

I'm told, but haven't seen the grip yet that its similar to this one which has reportedly taken the hand of another dude using it on a sbr shotgun.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_to4cIIWyMyA0mZKxKRtgY-qwQzRTmps/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15dXDAQCUC_DVNZ68N0wRMtjrBzvLUdBw/view?usp=sharing

The first Google drive is locked. 

I hear you.. I would rather take the bullet than a young child. Still I'm sorry to hear it was you. I'll pray for your fast recovery!

VFG on any gun should be taken seriously. I remember the poor guy that had the rail on a KSG break off, causing their hand to move in front of the barrel during rapid (pumping) firing. I much prefer Magpul AFGs. Only other grip I would accept is the one on Thompson, otherwise I pretty much avoid VFGs. I do have a stubby LaRue VFG on my MP5, but I hold it like a AFG, pulling it into my shoulder, instead of wrapping my hand around the grip..

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6 hours ago, AndrewsArmoryllc said:

Andy, I'm so glad you are ok.  Been praying for you.  Crazy things happen.  A few years back, my buddy racked an AK  and I was forward of his position lying down.  Fortunately, he had it pointed up not sweeping me because it ran away and put half a dozen holes in the top of the tent.  No one saw it because the line was hot.

Interestingly enough, I too had a FA CZ Scorpion that I was renting.  It wouldn't fire but one time so I took it apart and remember that I had changed out a trigger spring but incorrectly installed it.  After working with it for at least an hour I gave up and put it up.  Mine has a hand stop on it instead of a vertical grip but looking at what happened here I'm thinking that I will not offer this gun any longer for rental.  It shoots too fast and even with a handstop your hand could sweep in front of it.  Fast shoot sub guns are a bit more handful than others.  I fully intend on foregoing all subguns and rifles for rental for next year.  I am thinking my M2HB .50 and MG34 and that's it!  We were the next to the last people loading up Sunday with two of us and it was brutal.  We always end up bringing so much stuff and this year only two of us to set up and breakdown.  I'm feeling my age already.

I understand what You said about glad this happened to you instead of the young boy.  I feel the same way about something like this.  Oh and BTW, keep the mount you took no charge.  I don't need it and it's my get well soon present to you.


  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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14 hours ago, Ryo said:

Interesting way to mount your optic. I went the way of installing a rail. 

HH0FDo2.jpg?1

Mine is on a rail as well but your method looks better.  How did  you do it?  I drilled and staked a rail on my cover.  Accuracy is not exactly sub MOA, lol but good enough for a belt fed MG.


  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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I got this idea from seeing MG42's with installed rails. Spent a long time looking for the best method to mount. I did see another MG34 with a rail similar to mine.

I took a Remington 700 rail that I had lying around and dremilled some spacing where the 3 rivets are located. I tapped the top cover for 2 screw locations. I plan to do one more spot so the back side of the rail isn't floating in the air. I need to create a spacer for this area. I waxed the top cover where the rail would contact it. I used JB Weld to fill in any gaps between the rail and the top cover so it would have a the most solid contact it could ever get. Bedding compound would work too, but I have only JB Weld available.

I haven't tested the accuracy yet. I should throw in the good barrel and try it out. I need to adjust the sights. Last time few times I took it out was pretty inaccurate shooting even in the Lafette since I haven't dialed it in.

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MIne was surprisingly accurate.  Granted whatever I could see without magnification at 200 yards I could hit.  It looked like I was hitting something the size of a Coke can but likely was 12" or bigger.  I could make it jump up or a shiny piece of metal disappear which means I hit it.


  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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On 7/1/2021 at 0:07 AM, AndrewsArmoryllc said:

This is a correct account.  two hours in a tourniquet hurt like hell.  This is a one second vid my daughter Jacy caught with her iPhone slowed down.  Thank God it didn't happen to the 14 year old kid who shot this same weapon didn't have this happen to him.  As weird as it sounds, I'm actually glad I took the bullets instead of him.

I'm told, but haven't seen the grip yet that its similar to this one which has reportedly taken the hand of another dude using it on a sbr shotgun.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_to4cIIWyMyA0mZKxKRtgY-qwQzRTmps/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15dXDAQCUC_DVNZ68N0wRMtjrBzvLUdBw/view?usp=sharing

 

 

 

 

 

Glad to hear your doing ok Roy! Hope everything worked out well with the recent surgical consult. Boy, you sure did have us worried that night! You’re all anyone talked about that night. At least it got us off the new nickname. =D. Hope you make a decent and timely recovery! Take it easy bud!

Tim

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2 minutes ago, challenger70rt said:

Glad to hear your doing ok Roy! Hope everything worked out well with the recent surgical consult. Boy, you sure did have us worried that night! You’re all anyone talked about that night. At least it got us off the new nickname. =D. Hope you make a decent and timely recovery! Take it easy bud!

Tim

Andy, not Roy but I'm sure he's  going by whatever he's called, lol.


  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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Here is my email to Mike regarding my thoughts about this year.
 
First, the accident.  Every year we have a prayer and depend on God's protection.  I know without a doubt God has protected everyone for these past 20 years at OFASTS.  The question begs, what happened with Andy and why did it happen?  Andy told me on the phone a few days ago, there is a lesson to be learned from this and I couldn't agree more.
 
I had the exact same gun, a CZ Scorpion that I had for rental.  The gun was malfunctioning and I soon realized that I had improperly installed a trigger spring.  I attempted to get it running for almost an hour and finally gave up as the trigger pack has a lot of small parts.  
 
Upon reflection and discussion with Andy, I am not going to bring any more sub guns for rental.  The CZ is a very fast subgun.  I have a hand stop on mine but have never checked it for tightness and it's very possible to slide your hand past it into the path of a bullet.  Andy's accident reminded me how very dangerous fast subguns are not only to the shooter but also to bystanders as they can be very uncontrollable.  In my opinion, the chance of an accident outweighs whatever reason I would allow them for rental.  Remember the Knob Creek accident with an Uzi?  Subguns should receive additional attention in your rules you go over on Saturday and Range Officers should make them a priority to watch closely.  Who is renting them and are they competent to control such a weapon?
 
Going forward I intend to only rent fixed belt feds that are locked on target and long MG's such as the BAR.  
 
I'm happy to see the following:
  • Use of the siren you bought from me for cold range,
  • Range officers up and down the line constantly monitoring things,
  • The preacher and prayer before the shoot on Saturday (why not do this on Sunday as well along with the National Anthem?),
  • Increase in minimum rental fees
Things I would like to see or believe should be changed:
  • Chamber flags!  I was not once reminded on my guns to have chamber flags.  My guns on my rack had them but I admit, I got lazy and didn't have any chamber flags or other devices (spent cartridge, etc) in my belt feds that were on tripods, nor was my bolt moved or locked to the rear consistently on cold range.  The further into Saturday and Sunday the less I attended to this.  This was a complete failure on my part and the range officers.
  • The line should immediately go cold if an accident happens.  When Andy got shot, I understand there were two qualified persons who attended to him.  However, what if there wouldn't have been?  Dr. Carr, an emergency room physician was a few line spots down from me.  He didn't know anything about the accident until the next morning.  After you were made aware that someone had been shot, I believe the range should have immediately gone cold and a request for any and all physicians or emergency care persons with training to report to the linespot where the person was shot.  I believe I know why you didn't call for help because it could have impeded the exfil of Andy if a large crowd gathered and also made the fact widely known that an accident just happened.  However, crowd control is what security and range officers are for.  Announcing the accident does give "bad press" but it's going to get out anyway.  Let's say the accident would have involved more than a GSW to his hand, maybe to a femoral artery and the persons at the line say they are qualified but aren't?  What if the tourniquet is incorrectly applied or one isn't and it should have been?  It would be much better to have a practicing ER physician as well as other trained people on site to render aid and their experience.
  • Do you have a Procedure for accidents?  If so, why aren't all linespot holders informed on what should be done in the event of an accident?  One simple rule is to have any linespot person granted the authority to call for an immediate cold range in the event there is a GSW or other catastrophe.  All linespot personnel should be asked and noted if they have emergency aid training.  I'm a Volunteer Firefighter and have had Combat Medical training.  Those people should be identified and known by your RO's.  How many RO's carry and know how to use a tourniquet? What is the closest hospital?  Andy told me that the ambulance took him to a hospital that was further away and smaller than Mercy in Joplin.  I realize that is up to the ambulance driver but what happens if a person should be taken sooner than an ambulance?  Knowing the exact route and which hospital to go to should be in the procedures that all linespot holders should know.  I just happened to know that Mercy in Joplin is about 45 min's away driving the speed limit and that's the one I suppose I would go to if needed.
  • More vendors.  As we all know, Knob Creek is ending in October.  Contact with Knob Creek to see if they would allow flyers to every vendor there would be the best  way to ensure that your event is known about by these vendors.  I can't see why Knob Creek wouldn't allow this unless they have intentions on continuing the gun show minus the machine gun shoot but I specifically asked Gina at Knob Creek and she told me this was the last gun show and machine gun shoot. 
  • Power instead of generators.  Why not run power for your vendors and campers?  Full hookups for campers with an overnight fee for use?  I'd pay for it.
  • Smaller binary targets for shooters.  Every year I bring some pvc with binary to have scattered about.  It's more fun to shoot exploding targets and that ends about 5 minutes or less after every refresh on the targets downrange.  Why not have 50 or 100 smaller binary targets that people can "hunt" and shoot?
Thanks for another great year and I look forward to 2022.  BTW, I'm renting a tent next year. I'm through with pop up tents.

  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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UPDATE;

 

The Knight's Pistol Grip was not at fault. It was the type of rail the owner of the CZ Scorpion had or used.

After examining the grip involved in the accident, there is no question that it didn't come unscrewed from the bottom as originally suspected. The grip had been grazed on the outside by a 9mm round, enough that it also protruded to the inside, causing a matching indentation on the inner sleeve with the plastic pin used to tighten the grip to the rail. This proved that the plastic pin used to hold the grip in place to the rail was fully extended/engaged to the surface of the rail as far as it could move when the grip was actually struck with the round.

So, I thought, how in hell did that grip slide off? I decided to call the owner of the MG to see if the rail was not to mill spec potentially causing the ears to slip off on the side or if there was any type of slop in the system causing the grip to fall off. He literally hadn't looked at the
MG since the accident and a giant rain storm hit that night causing everyone to rush packing their MGs so they wouldn't get soaking wet.

This afternoon, he got back to me literally sick to his stomach. The rail system he was using had the middle part of the rail milled out along the whole length of the rail. I.e., there was literally nothing other than the very tip of that plastic pin tightened down on a flat aluminum surface preventing the grip from simply sliding off the rail. This small plastic, tapered pin was the only thing holding the grip in place. The findings point to 100% user error. The grip was not designed to work with this type of rail system at all.

Mystery solved.

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Andy, sorry I missed your call yesterday.  I'm glad you got to the bottom of this!  I was thinking that KA would have made a quality part. My guess up until now was the VG was a clone as the Chinese clone everything.  However, this reveals how this happened.  CZ made the EVO 3A1 with a "channel" down the middle of the lower and side rails on their guns from the factory  I'm not sure why other than to allow some attachments to slide off easier. It would be interesting to find out if they provide a warning to not use VG that are secured in this manner.

cz-usa-cz-scorpion-evo3-a1.png


  Davy Keith,
  Four Laws of Firearm Safety
  1. The gun is always loaded
  2. Never let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy
  3. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until your sights are on the target
  4. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Rebel Rifle logo.png
418 Pittman Rd.
Ellisville, MS 39437
(601)319-2675
(877)852-9532 Fax
 
FFL 1-64-03368

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