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BPP HK23EK feeding issues


Got Uzi

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Picked this gun up yesterday and from the looks of it, the gun was hardly used....well I’ve figured out why I think.....

The gun will not go into battery when dropping the bolt on a round being fed out of a belt. Here is what I’m using-

Wolf 55gr steel case

new M27 SAW links from AmmuntionStore.com

Ive had the gun apart all day going over the little fine details as I’ve found a few burrs and high spots where the finish was pretty thick causing bolt drag.  I’ve addressed these issues and that’s all. That being said-I’ve discovered that the bolt assembly is stopping at the exact same spot each time and as soon as I release the feed mechanism, the bolt goes home. The gun is a BPP but it has a MM23E feed box (which I found odd) There is something binding up the gun when it tries to cycle the feed wheel in the feed box assembly.  I was able to get the gun to cycle 3 rounds flawlessly with no links, just placing the rounds on the feed wheel and then cycling the bolt.

Can someone point out what is going on and what I’m missing? At this point it seems like the bolt is hanging up on the links but I can’t tell how or where. Can the links be too large or the radius goes around too far and comes up through the feed way cover? I’ve wanted one of these guns for a long time and now that I got one I’m pulling my hair out. 

 

 

 

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IIRC my buddy had issues with his MM23 similar.  Turns out it would only run brass ammo and steel case would not feed and the gun was finicky even with some brass.   Are you using the laquer coated or the slippy coated cases (which I don't think have been around for a while, but I'm no Woof expert?)?  He ended up getting rid of it, since he is neither a gunsmith nor a tinkerer. 

Lots of guys here have experience with the 23 system and I'm sure will offer better advice.  My only time is on my 21e.

223 beltfeds have all sorts of issues.  I recently redesigned and MGA SAW to work.  So far the shrike has been dependable and trouble free, but I did build my own feedway parts for it which I think helped a lot.

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It’s non coated wolf. I was talking to a fellow 23EK owner last night and we might have narrowed it down-the lifter/detente has been ground to hell causing the round to “roll” out of position which is in turn allowing the link to come up through the top cover. The bolt is hanging up on the link so this is a good place to start working. Gonna call and order said part today and see what happens then. 

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Called and left a voicemail with Mike since it’s his feed mec. I’m also wondering if I could have a bent feed cover that’s allowing the link to sit higher in the slot. If it’s bent-it could allow the slot to have become wider, allowing more of the link/round combo to sit protrude out. Just a thought on it. I’m sure I’ll get this figured out, but I just really really want to light up some expensive .223/5.56

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One other thing I would recommend. When speaking with Mike, he always told me to use 62grain M855 only as the belt guns need correct/hot ammo. He said he always had issues with 55 grain and steel case ammo, I have an HK23E and was at a shoot last year and one of the guys had a MM gun. He was having issues, he was running 55 grain ammo and we used a belt of mine and it ran great. 

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This might be a better way to put my issues per what I sent Mike

Feed mec out of the gun-functions fine
Feed mec on bench-functions fine
Feed mec in gun/no ammo-functions fine
Feed mec in gun/3 rounds set on wheel-functions fine

Feed mec in gun/linked ammo, gun locks up on forward stroke in the exact same point each time

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5 hours ago, forkauto said:

One other thing I would recommend. When speaking with Mike, he always told me to use 62grain M855 only as the belt guns need correct/hot ammo. He said he always had issues with 55 grain and steel case ammo, I have an HK23E and was at a shoot last year and one of the guys had a MM gun. He was having issues, he was running 55 grain ammo and we used a belt of mine and it ran great. 

Thats because he feed mech sucks, he will blame ammo, links, etc

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3 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

This might be a better way to put my issues per what I sent Mike

Feed mec out of the gun-functions fine
Feed mec on bench-functions fine
Feed mec in gun/no ammo-functions fine
Feed mec in gun/3 rounds set on wheel-functions fine

Feed mec in gun/linked ammo, gun locks up on forward stroke in the exact same point each time

He will blame everything on the BBP gun, doubtfull he'll help u

Edited by taylorwso
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6 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

Called and left a voicemail with Mike since it’s his feed mec. I’m also wondering if I could have a bent feed cover that’s allowing the link to sit higher in the slot. If it’s bent-it could allow the slot to have become wider, allowing more of the link/round combo to sit protrude out. Just a thought on it. I’m sure I’ll get this figured out, but I just really really want to light up some expensive .223/5.56

Go read this

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/bpp23ek-2-5-year-range-report.215419/

see if you have any of the same problems.

 

I probably have more time fixing/breaking parts than most people. I've also help a lot of people with theirs, Im not a expert but I can make it work.

before any says anymore about wolf/steel, it will run just fine in a 23eK, saw or 21e with 23e feed mech.

The  MM feed mech and BPP gun are prob the worst 2 combos to use. Since its was without a BPP mech, I bet somebody has already been fucking with this gun,and just got rid of it. I have found MM feed mech wont run/fit in a real 23e but BPPs do. I also know that a BPP will runa a HK feed mech both 21 and 23

Are you running f/a? If so was the bolt/carrier fitted to the trip? if not the trip will bind. What bolt carrier/bolt?

look at the top of the feed mech/bullet feed on the right side, is it hitting the carrier? My BPP cartridge guide had to be taken down/ sanded to clear the  carrier- couple thousanths. Look at the 4-5th picture right under the calipers on the right side you can see the shiny metal.

See if it will charge w/o the feed mech but with the trigger pack. if it binds it could be the 23e ejector on the left with not enough clearance (trigger pack not fitted correclty) or the trip if using f/a.

if it charges with the trigger pack and w/o the mech see if it will close w/o ammo. If not see where its hanging up.

Is there any damage to the rounds being fed, or is it not getting that far.

 

IM me and we can talk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

Called and left a voicemail with Mike since it’s his feed mec. I’m also wondering if I could have a bent feed cover that’s allowing the link to sit higher in the slot. If it’s bent-it could allow the slot to have become wider, allowing more of the link/round combo to sit protrude out. Just a thought on it. I’m sure I’ll get this figured out, but I just really really want to light up some expensive .223/5.56

dont fucking do that until you know whats wrong.

That guide is hardened and if you bend/grind it you'll fuck it up

 

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I’m closer to the end result. Found the trunion had a tight spot where the bolt was hanging up. I added just enough clearance where the bolt head passes through from the rails to the trunion. 

Now that I have it cycling and firing (test fired it finally) 

A new issue has come to my attention that I wouldnt have known until it was firing-the plunger that rides in the feed advance slot on the bottom of the bolt carrier is popping out after 2-3 rounds. Someone ground on it and it’s now short and not staying in the slot. Easy enough fix as I’ll be picking up a piece of drill rod tomorrow at work. One step closer to a fully functional weapon.

Edited by Got Uzi
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have found that you need 5.56 or 223 that will produce at least 3000 FPS. Also oil the shit out of the feed mech and carrier/bolt AND keep the oil OUT of the chamber. Mine (M&M) runs just about any brand ammo, any weight... as long as it’s over 3000 FPS. Brass, steel, 55gr, 62 gr no big deal.

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When I put it all together for the test fire-I costed the rails and carrier with a good tacky red grease. I like running grease over oil as it doesn’t run off when hot and it makes things nicer to clean. It also seemed to help in the break in process. 

Ill be sure to check the velocity on what I feed it. Thanks for the tip

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Man you are prob screwed for life with that gun dude.  A BPP gun with MM parts added? Clearly the gun wasnt running right as it originally came from BPP. Adding a MM feed mech (which MM doesnt supply to BPP as far as I know) was a last ditch effort on that gun.

You have bigger issues than the feed mech. Im thinking. 

Start with the gun builder....Carlos at BPP for service on it. Get a BPP feed mech in it...then you have one throat to choke.

If I were Mike I wouldnt touch any of that personally. It;s gonna be a tar baby.

And yes I have a bunch of MM guns including a MM233/21e and all the fixings ...and its heavy volume blaster of mine. I have one of the earliest gen MM23e...improvements certainly have been made over the many years. I bet there's 20x as many MM 23e's out there vs BPP 23e....

So if you have a BPP you are by definition gonna have a MUCH smaller pool of user resources and service to choose from.

Hate to break that to you.

 

 

 

 

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Well at this point I have it working well so I’m gonna keep running it. It’s funny how much hate there is with guys who have BPP guns vs MM guns. 

Being a machinist and gunsmith means I’m somewhat smart enough to work on one of these....clearance is clearance and sorry to sound arragant but BPP and MM ain’t the only people smart enough to work on these things. 

Btw-you did see the YouTube video I posted of the gun running?

Edited by Got Uzi
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^^ No...It's more that I've been thru this type of goat rope and have seen many others as well. Thats all.

And its true....mixing and matching parts from 2 beltfed clone builders is a risky proposition. That's all.

Hks are unique , beltfeds are much more complex than mag fed of course. Most of us don't have your mad skillz or desire to be filing down parts on custom build guns that cost >$12k . 

I want the best for you and your gun. I'm GLAD its running. I hope it runs 100% here on out and that you fixed whatever out of spec problem you may have had. Bravo! 

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A few years ago I was at Big Sandy, a guy from Vegas had a BPP hk23e that was not feeding.  I took my mm23 feed Mech and stuck it on his and it ran like the sewing machine. My point is that you should be able to switch parts from one gun to another. I realize that gives the builders somebody else to point the finger at,  which is not really what you want. It can get very frustrating sending these guns back and forth to builders and not having them fixed correctly I understand why GOT UZI took it upon himself to make it run. And run it does. Good Job.

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15 hours ago, x50plt said:

\My point is that you should be able to switch parts from one gun to another. I realize that gives the builders somebody else to point the finger at,  which is not really what you want. I

they should, but they dont.

ALL clone makers build guns to their spec, not to HK spec.  From CAI grinding bolts, to heat treat of parts, to final fit and finish.

Some parts will switch, sometimes, others never will.

15 hours ago, x50plt said:

A few years ago I was at Big Sandy, a guy from Vegas had a BPP hk23e that was not feeding.  I took my mm23 feed Mech and stuck it on his and it ran like the sewing machine.

I've seen MM feed mech NOT fit on a spec 23e, a BPP fit on a hk23E and not run, and a HK feed mech in a

MM gun and not run.

The only thing Ive seen switch and run all the time are real HK parts. As I said clones should be treated as one offs.

Edited by taylorwso
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17 hours ago, Got Uzi said:

Well at this point I have it working well so I’m gonna keep running it. It’s funny how much hate there is with guys who have BPP guns vs MM guns.

Its not hate between the two, its hate for them both. Spending 10K plus on a gun that wont run puts a lot of people off. After dealing with a BPP gun for years I know guys on both sides that are still pissed, some still SOL.

You are lucky, you fixed a problem which should have never been in the first place. Some people still have 10K paperweight that wont work.

 

BTW for all those reading Got Uzi said he had to clearance a rail on the BPP to get the bolt to slide into the trunion. IE it was getting hung up and the rollers were hitting the rails before the truinion locking the gun up.

 

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It was more the bolt head itself on the trunion. Feeler gauges would clear the roller but not the bolt head. It was a combination of a lot of things but the end result was the trunion needed more clearance to allow the bolt to fit inside. 

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