MontanaRenegade86

Left Wing Gun Owners - Friends or Foes?

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For the past few days, I've been reading the Reddit associated with left-leaning / left-wing gun owners. These guys are gun owners with a very progressive view of the world --- pro-BLM, pro-gay, pro-choice, etc. Despite being on the left side of the spectrum, they appear to be pretty solid on the Second Amendment. Most of these guys appear to be against "assault weapon" bans, support NFA firearm ownership, support self defense, support concealed carry, etc. 

I have been a Second Amendment supporter my whole life. To me, there is no greater right than the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. It is the right that secures every other right that we have as free men and women. In this regard, I am very glad to see "lefties" embracing the Second Amendment.

However, I am really struggling to accept them as allies when a lot of their beliefs are so contrary to mine: support for draconian market regulation, support for "free" healthcare and "free" higher education, support for unchecked immigration, support for criminal shitbags, putting the world ahead of the United States, demonizing success/wealth, etc. 

I also find fault with their (generally held) view of conservatives as being uneducated, racist, homophobic, drooling retards who are out to oppress anybody who is not a white Christian conservative. This is bullshit. In 34 years and change, I cannot recall a time when I oppressed anybody. If I've been an ass to somebody, it's because they were an ass first and I responded with an equal or greater amount of asshattery. Arbitrary labels people give themselves have nothing to do with me being a jerk to them. I'll call bullshit on anybody, include a white Christian conservative when the occasion calls for it. When it came to voting, I have always voted to advance the candidate who holds a viewpoint most similar to mine. If my preferred candidate was a turd sandwich, the other candidate was even worse. 

So, how do the rest of my Sturm friends view lefty gun owners? Friends or foes or somewhere in between? 

Also, if somebody from the LGO Reddit happens to run across this post, I'd love to have a civil dialog where we can discuss policy issues and see where we might find common ground.

In Liberty,

KristopherH

Edited by MontanaRenegade86

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Kristopher, 

Living in western Montana,  I  know  many... "What do you   need  with with that thar  military rifle? that's  only good for killing Coyotes "??  And the big lie , we liberals defend the 2nd Amendment  , we will always protect our heritage of hunting... nothing could be farther from  the  Truth.  

I have  introduced many Democrat Montanans  to the 2nd Amendment  , all with the same smile a Republican has after Shooting Fullauto.

Thankfully our State of Montana went full on Republican.   

Trump Flags are still Flying all around the  Hood.

Never judge a book by it's cover. 

Best to talk it over before  Shooting. 

North or South  , East or West 

we the people will be the last word.

Edited by Born loser...in Montana
had to go to the head.

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Foes.

There have been several threads on gunboards where there seem to be a substantial number of democrat voters who think their vote won't have any effect on their rights.  Being delusional is a mental illness and that's the first sign you can't have a coherent argument since they will ignore random facts, past history, etc.  They truly believe since they are lefty's "their" guys won't do anything to "them", assuming they have the same "privileges" as their liberal icons.   They are too blind to see the corruption in their own caste system where hollywood, TV news script readers, and politicians all read the same scripts tell us what to do, then violate the same rules and laws with no consequences.   All of these people have have armed security in places the rest of us are not allowed to defend ourselves.  Mayors hand down orders to police chiefs to "allow" certain people to destroy other peoples property without any fear of prosecution, or may do some minor arrests and their liberal judge "friends" dismiss any charges at a later date.  The whole left vs. right thing goes a whole lot further than just firearms it's really about human decency.

Slave owners have always wanted slaves.  The democrat party is the party of slavery and if you look at the schools right this moment the democrat run big cities have stopped all education in hopes of enslaving another generation destined to poverty, while the upper class (politicians and the above mentioned) all send their kids to private schools.  During the indoctrination tools of freedom such as firearms are demonized.

They do protect their own as you see politicians on one side now circling around the ones outed to be in bed (literally) with chinese communists.  You've watched hollywood actors, who've been outed as slightly conservative blacklisted.    The question is  will our side start doing the same thing?  I've turned away work in the last 6 months from know libs and when I can't get out of it, I dramatically raise my rates with the funds going toward conservative causes sort of the same way racketeers (labor unions) do, but mine is voluntary.

When will our side smarten up?

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1 hour ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

 

Quote

There have been several threads on gunboards where there seem to be a substantial number of democrat voters who think their vote won't have any effect on their rights.  Being delusional is a mental illness and that's the first sign you can't have a coherent argument since they will ignore random facts, past history, etc.  They truly believe since they are lefty's "their" guys won't do anything to "them", assuming they have the same "privileges" as their liberal icons.   They are too blind to see the corruption in their own caste system where hollywood, TV news script readers, and politicians all read the same scripts tell us what to do, then violate the same rules and laws with no consequences.

Truth. 

A guy I once knew self-identified as an avowed socialist/Marxist. He loved to hunt, so he had lots of "hunting" rifles and gear. He was insane on other issues, though. He had several prime pieces of property all over the state worth major bucks, but he had the audacity to whine about a neighborhood couple who lived in what was little better than a box.

He and his wife later moved from our working class community to one of the most expensive areas in the state. 

Edited by MontanaRenegade86
trying to get quote boxes to work

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They want all forms of self defense banned. They are afraid for their lives. They want to "protect" themselves before the full liberal agenda of community policing, social worker first responder and weapon ban/confiscation is in place. 

They are not our ally. They have guns, because you have guns. They believe the government will disarm you first. It is a our power. We have it. They will take it. 

This is a long con. Demonize, disarm, dominate.

I talked with some very politically active DC liberals years ago. They have pretty much confirmed it.

 

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My problem with the reddit folks is the mods in some subs (the NFA subreddit, of all places?) will straight up silence you or ban you for even expressing a more libertarian view than what they have.

In July, I simply posted Biden's proposed gun laws to the NFA subreddit.  Just a screenshot of his website, and nothing else.  Although the there were no rules against political posts at the time, the post was removed and I was banned.  Subsequently they made the rule that there could be no political posts.  And now there are no political posts.  Well, no political posts that don't along with their agenda.  Posts that go along with their agenda are A-OK.  Rules for thee, not for me, after all.

I do think there are lots of people there who are more right wing/libertarian.  They just remain silent about their opinions (most days), as they don't want to be silenced / banned.  (And they call us right-wingers fascists...) 

But yeah, if you can't discuss potential NFA laws on the NFA subreddit, I don't have much hope for non-suppressed speech anywhere on reddit.  It's a lost cause.

 

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They are not our friends. They preach of tolerance but do not tolerate our beliefs....  only good thing about leftist owning guns is when this country finally hits the breaking point we will be able to use there arms an ammo as extras hahaha.  

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On 12/12/2020 at 8:11 PM, MontanaRenegade86 said:

For the past few days, I've been reading the Reddit associated with left-leaning / left-wing gun owners. These guys are gun owners with a very progressive view of the world --- pro-BLM, pro-gay, pro-choice, etc. Despite being on the left side of the spectrum, they appear to be pretty solid on the Second Amendment. Most of these guys appear to be against "assault weapon" bans, support NFA firearm ownership, support self defense, support concealed carry, etc. 

I have been a Second Amendment supporter my whole life. To me, there is no greater right than the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. It is the right that secures every other right that we have as free men and women. In this regard, I am very glad to see "lefties" embracing the Second Amendment.

However, I am really struggling to accept them as allies when a lot of their beliefs are so contrary to mine: support for draconian market regulation, support for "free" healthcare and "free" higher education, support for unchecked immigration, support for criminal shitbags, putting the world ahead of the United States, demonizing success/wealth, etc. 

I also find fault with their (generally held) view of conservatives as being uneducated, racist, homophobic, drooling retards who are out to oppress anybody who is not a white Christian conservative. This is bullshit. In 34 years and change, I cannot recall a time when I oppressed anybody. If I've been an ass to somebody, it's because they were an ass first and I responded with an equal or greater amount of asshattery. Arbitrary labels people give themselves have nothing to do with me being a jerk to them. I'll call bullshit on anybody, include a white Christian conservative when the occasion calls for it. When it came to voting, I have always voted to advance the candidate who holds a viewpoint most similar to mine. If my preferred candidate was a turd sandwich, the other candidate was even worse. 

So, how do the rest of my Sturm friends view lefty gun owners? Friends or foes or somewhere in between? 

Also, if somebody from the LGO Reddit happens to run across this post, I'd love to have a civil dialog where we can discuss policy issues and see where we might find common ground.

In Liberty,

KristopherH

Firearms alone are not reflective of personally held policies or traditions. Firearms are used to CHANGE policy and or regimes by either party or persuasion. The mere fact that someone from the left likes firearms, has very little to do with their true feelings about social issues, customs and moors. They...liberals STILL think it's ok to kill unborn children, sell their body parts for $$$, that there are more than 2 sexes, that it is "natural" and a right for same sex marriage, that health care is a "right" that they are entitled to as much free shix as they can abscond and or cheat the gov out of.

Or better yet make YOU pay for their free shix through high taxation. 

Sorry I'm old, ornery hard headed, prejudiced, and fixed in my ways. I still believe in the same archaic and antiquated morals and life lessons I have learned and lived by for the last 67 years.

The left is NEVER to be trusted, most especially with firearms in their possession.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's s duck.

Liberals suck, and THEY are the poison that is, slowly, systemically destroying this country!!

 

FWIW,

R.L.

Edited by R.L.
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R.L., 

I've been tossing this around in my mind for the past couple of days, and I believe that the good people of Sturm are indeed correct that we need to be very wary of left-wing gun owners.

In the past, my litmus test was only the Second Amendment. At this point in time, however, I cannot ignore the other issues that left wingers espouse.

The question in my mind now is: do left wingers, with all of their contempt and hatred for our system, have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, especially when they may use said arms to overthrow our system? I am inclined to say NO. These bastards have already managed to %^*^ up our elections. I shudder to think of what they will do if they arm themselves, get trained up, and organize themselves into something resembling an army.  

The good news is, judging by the posts on Reddit, most of them got to the party pretty late. The dumbasses didn't follow the "buy cheap, stack deep" rule. :D 

Right is Might,

KristopherH

 

 

 

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Nah, you have to extend the right to defend oneself to everyone.  To not do so is a really slippery slope.

In my opinion, while I don't agree with much of what the left thinks, we should get as many of them into firearms as we can.  I feel like it's a hook of sorts.  They see their rights in regards to ownership of them threatened over and over again over time, and as age and experience take their toll (maybe also seeing what the curbing of free speech does, as well seeing "high taxes" as being a thing they actually have to pay vs. just a tax on the "greedy rich"), they may flip.  Just my thoughts.

Edited by lllest

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More people calling for less restrictions on gun rights provides for a larger impact on government officials who want to press the anti gun agenda of their sponsors so to get beyond the crazy talk of politics and to actual effectiveness of blocking policy initiatives that will degrade the rights granted under the second amendment I see no way that larger numbers of supporters creates anything but a benefit. 2 cents

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19 hours ago, lllest said:

Nah, you have to extend the right to defend oneself to everyone.  To not do so is a really slippery slope.

In my opinion, while I don't agree with much of what the left thinks, we should get as many of them into firearms as we can.  I feel like it's a hook of sorts.  They see their rights in regards to ownership of them threatened over and over again over time, and as age and experience take their toll (maybe also seeing what the curbing of free speech does, as well seeing "high taxes" as being a thing they actually have to pay vs. just a tax on the "greedy rich"), they may flip.  Just my thoughts.

I have no problem with a person, any person, defending himself from a legitimate threat by any means available.

What I do have a problem with is a bunch of spoiled children, criminal dirtbags, and professional victims trying to overthrow our government, our values, our freedoms, our very way of life. Maybe I'm only seeing a small percentage of what makes up the left-wing community, but the events of the past year haven't inspired much confidence in their movement. Burning down entire neighborhoods because some dirtbags got ventilated by some cops? What damage would those leftist cretins have done had they armed themselves? Sure, not every lefty in America was explicitly calling on the thugs to cause mayhem, but I don't recall a single liberal condemning the bad behavior, either. 

Like I said, I am having a hard time accepting that the typical lefty gun owner is "one of the guys".

Just my take on things, worth exactly what was paid for it. (MSRP: $0.02)

Good thing we are not on the cesspool known as Reddit, we would have been banned many times over by now. Reddit discourages civil discussion. :D 

-KristopherH

 

 

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I knew a SOT back in the 90s who considered himself a Communist. He and his wife were some of the nicest pro-2A people you'd ever meet!

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11 hours ago, riflejunky said:

More people calling for less restrictions on gun rights provides for a larger impact on government officials who want to press the anti gun agenda of their sponsors so to get beyond the crazy talk of politics and to actual effectiveness of blocking policy initiatives that will degrade the rights granted under the second amendment I see no way that larger numbers of supporters creates anything but a benefit. 2 cents

The problem is in your  assumption that more people (Democrats) calling for less regulation/ restrictions  on gun rights, is absolutely wrong. 

In my State of Montana ,  Democrats always say, they  will defend our rights to a own gun, but it really means  that they defend the right for only  guns  that  they  approve.  

Every  Democrat  from Montana (TRUMP COUNTRY), has always voted with the  party (Communist Party) when it comes down to  the  2nd Amendment. 

Edited by Born loser...in Montana
Grammar
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25 minutes ago, Born loser...in Montana said:

The problem is in your  assumption that more people (Democrats) calling for less regulation/ restrictions  on gun rights, is absolutely wrong. 

In my State of Montana ,  Democrats always say, they  will defend our rights to a own gun, but it really means  that they defend the right for only  guns  that  they  approve.  

Every  Democrat  from Montana (TRUMP COUNTRY), has always voted with the  party (Communist Party) when it comes down to  the  2nd Amendment. 

I agree with your characterization of democratic politicians and their view of appropriate firearms. However a democratic voter happy with their new AR and willing to say the same to an elected official is nothing but positive to the cause of the second amendment. 

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10 hours ago, riflejunky said:

I agree with your characterization of democratic politicians and their view of appropriate firearms. However a democratic voter happy with their new AR and willing to say the same to an elected official is nothing but positive to the cause of the second amendment. 

Unfortunately you are 100% wrong about this.  It's party first, regardless of whether they are banning your firearms, or the pedophiles in public office has the best needs of the party and agenda in mind,  they are willing to overlook anything including loss of freedom, high taxes, eliminating free speech, etc.   Look over on gunboards at some democrats that have outed themselves and read their justifications as to why and you'll see they are delusional at best, but party first and are willing to overlook every illegal action they've taken in the last 5 years to get rid of orange man and not one of these has resulted in any charges to any  of them.  They've now become emboldened and it will get worse.  Expect some serious censorship coming down from big tech and the chinese. I just saw where Putin is thrilled about a Harris presidency.  Watch for 120% voter turnout in Atlanta while everyone watches with eyes wide open and does nothing to stop it.

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The Georgia election results are definitely being scrutinized no matter the narrative being put forth. I requested a mail in ballot and it was sent to the wrong address, it was then forwarded to me and I mailed it in then before I made it home a states investigator was at my house making sure it was not a fraudulent vote.

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13 hours ago, riflejunky said:

The Georgia election results are definitely being scrutinized no matter the narrative being put forth. I requested a mail in ballot and it was sent to the wrong address, it was then forwarded to me and I mailed it in then before I made it home a states investigator was at my house making sure it was not a fraudulent vote.

Yes correct,  all a fraud .

If you really know about  the             

2nd Amendment,

all infringement has been  initiated By the Democratic Party, it is true that many Republicans have betrayed the Constitution. For self gain. 

The Communist knows  many Capitalists can be bribed. 

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Left is arming themselves... isn't that concerning?  

I think for some it is a good thing.. they start opening their minds a bit. It will take time.
It will also mean better things for firearms industry since they might fall in the rabbit hole of purchasing firearms stuff hence less likely want to band.. even if their ideology hasn't changed.

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50 minutes ago, Ryo said:

Left is arming themselves... isn't that concerning?  

I think for some it is a good thing.. they start opening their minds a bit. It will take time.
It will also mean better things for firearms industry since they might fall in the rabbit hole of purchasing firearms stuff hence less likely want to band.. even if their ideology hasn't changed.

They're not concerned with any potential bans.  If you've noticed the difference between a Trump rally and a blm march, you note that the after the Trump rally everyone is happy, excited, the area left behind is spotless.  When blm goes by, first the police show up after the mayors let them, but only as an escort for the fire department to put out the remaining smoldering piles of rubble.   What they know is that even with bans and laws in effect, they are members of a group that's never prosecuted.  Check your local big city for prosecutions of felons in possession of a firearm....it never happens and they know this so the only ones surrendering anything would be law abiding conservative folks.

If bans are enacted, it's more likely you'll be joining them as non-law abiding potential felons than them joining us by giving up their firearms.   Think of all the bump stocks that have never been destroyed?  If you live in the hood and are caught, nothing will happen to you, if you live out more suburban a DA will potentially likely prosecute you.  Different rules for different people......the goal of communists, who now hold high positions in the US government.

Riflejunky when you say "investigator" are you sure it was not a democrat party operative looking to harvest your ballot?  They have people that "follow" ballots.

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12 hours ago, Born loser...in Montana said:

Yes correct,  all a fraud .

If you really know about  the             

2nd Amendment,

all infringement has been  initiated By the Democratic Party, it is true that many Republicans have betrayed the Constitution. For self gain. 

The Communist knows  many Capitalists can be bribed. 

What party was in control in May of 1986?

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58 minutes ago, riflejunky said:

What party was in control in May of 1986?

No Party had complete control,

Senate and House was controlled by Democrats,  as we have seen over the pass 4yrs. just because you have a Republican president  doesn't mean conservative values will be upheld. Many  Republicans took an oath to enrich themselves instead of defending the Constitution. 

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5 hours ago, riflejunky said:

What party was in control in May of 1986?

May 1986:

President - Republican 

Senate - Republican majority  

House - Democrat majority

In November '86, Republicans lost eight seats in the Senate and four in the House, where they were already massively outnumbered, and were the minority party until the November '94 elections. 

...

For what it's worth, in 1986, the parties were apparently not quite as hardline as they are today. Several Democrats voted against the machinegun ban and for FOPA as a whole and several Republicans voted for the machinegun ban and against FOPA as a whole. 

Believe it or not, Joe Biden voted for the Firearm Owner's Protection Act in 1986. Of course, he probably wasn't suffering from cognitive impairment back then. 

-KristopherH

 

 

 

 

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Quote

 

I’ve been seeing memes circulating the internet aimed at the liberal gun owner, who didn’t vote the way the conservatives may have wanted us to.

Not only are the memes childish, and low effort, but it also shows that both of them feel entitled to our “gun vote”.

As someone who emphasized other issues in this last election, there’s a lot conservatives need to help us out on before I’d put all effort into protecting and regaining lost ground of our 2nd Amendment rights.

In other words for the lurkers, scratch our backs, and we will scratch yours. As of right now, there’s way too many dealbreakers people-gun candidates have that keeps me pushed away.

Equality for persons of color, beating COVID-19, LGBTQIA rights, Affordable housing, climate change, equal employment for marginalized groups, and social welfare programs aimed to help those in poverty are not negotiable for me.

It’s simple really, If conservatives want our gun vote a lot sooner, then they need to break off from their old ways and help their fellow human being. If they can do just that, I would have no problem handing out the “gun vote”. No problem at all.

 

I just had to share this little gem I found on Reddit. It is absolutely hilarious. Guess this assclown doesn't really care about his guns after all. 

You know what I say? %*^# him!!! Guys like us will still have our guns while this little beta is being put in the Gulag. 

-KristopherH

Edited by MontanaRenegade86

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3 hours ago, MontanaRenegade86 said:

May 1986:

President - Republican 

Senate - Republican majority  

House - Democrat majority

In November '86, Republicans lost eight seats in the Senate and four in the House, where they were already massively outnumbered, and were the minority party until the November '94 elections. 

...

For what it's worth, in 1986, the parties were apparently not quite as hardline as they are today. Several Democrats voted against the machinegun ban and for FOPA as a whole and several Republicans voted for the machinegun ban and against FOPA as a whole. 

Believe it or not, Joe Biden voted for the Firearm Owner's Protection Act in 1986. Of course, he probably wasn't suffering from cognitive impairment back then. 

-KristopherH

 

 

 

 

Yes  ,  in "The Month of May "  the the Communist Party  realised  that the best way to overthrow the United States of America , was to use  their own  freedoms against  them. Just  walk across the  border  and join in on all the Freedom.

No sense  in trying to  fight   with  the Country of the "Home of the Brave". Better off to influence and infiltrate all institutions .

If the Democrats gain control of the Senate and House  ...kiss the 2nd Amendment  good by. 

The Golden Age of the AR 15 is coming to a end under Democratic Rule. 

 

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