Ryo

Carrier as a MG?

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13 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Ryo said:

Just curious if a M16 carrier was ever registered as a.

 

Here we go again,  making lists. 

All of my AR carriers are full auto mil spec... 

Will that mean a $200 NFA  Biden Tax for each?

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No I'm talking about a carrier was registered as a machine gun, like a sear is registered as a machine gun.. It was said that this carrier is on a Form 4.

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Ryo,

Respectfully, I  completely  concede. 

Your question deserves consideration, 

I believe barrels were also MARKED. 

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9 hours ago, Ryo said:

No I'm talking about a carrier was registered as a machine gun, like a sear is registered as a machine gun.. It was said that this carrier is on a Form 4.

I fail to see how a registered **standalone** bolt carrier can be made into a legally functioning machinegun.

Why? Because in order to have a functional machinegun, you are going to have to have a way to make that thing work: modified receiver, drop in auto sear, lightning link, etc. 

If it has already been installed into a host rifle and is fully functional, that's one thing, as you could make a case for the "married combination of parts" argument. 

As it stands, that standalone bolt carrier is asking for trouble. Can you transfer it? Why not. Can you build a host rifle around it? I would not. As soon as a guy drills the hole in the receiver or makes a sear/link, it's game over. 

Man, I wish people in 1986 hadn't done silly shit like this. It pisses me off to no end when a dealer sells something like this, knowing that the "transferable" machinegun is nothing but a very expensive and worthless paperweight.

My opinion only, worth exactly what you paid for it. MSRP: $0.02

-KristopherH

 

 

Edited by MontanaRenegade86
clarity

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I wouldn't waste too much thought on this until someone sees said registered carrier.  99.99% chance that whoever ORIGINALLY relayed the info really doesn't know what they're talking about and it is something else.  That's usually how these topics play out.  I'm thinking lightning link.  Will be interesting if it actually IS something else.

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I am curious why ATF allowed M2 carbines to have registered only parts such as hammer, trigger housing, trip lever, selector switch, etc, but on M16's, no parts could be registered, just the receiver.

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3 hours ago, mac1 said:

I am curious why ATF allowed M2 carbines to have registered only parts such as hammer, trigger housing, trip lever, selector switch, etc, but on M16's, no parts could be registered, just the receiver.

I believe it was because the m2 parts are all “bolt on” parts requiring no modifications to the reciver to work? Same way a sear for a mp5 or a dias for a m16 work no modifications to hosts. Or even with reg bolts for uzis you can use them for the most part with no modifications to the reciver of the firearm. I could be wrong that’s just how it was explained to me when I asked.

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22 hours ago, Thumpy said:

I believe it was because the m2 parts are all “bolt on” parts requiring no modifications to the reciver to work? Same way a sear for a mp5 or a dias for a m16 work no modifications to hosts. Or even with reg bolts for uzis you can use them for the most part with no modifications to the reciver of the firearm. I could be wrong that’s just how it was explained to me when I asked.

Okay, thanks for explaining that Thumpy.  I agree with your explanation as I own a registered trip lever and use it on a host M1 carbine which does not require modification to the receiver expect for the drop in parts to make it select fire.  

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2 hours ago, mac1 said:

Okay, thanks for explaining that Thumpy.  I agree with your explanation as I own a registered trip lever and use it on a host M1 carbine which does not require modification to the receiver expect for the drop in parts to make it select fire.  

This is what it's all about  ...

The passage of knowledge.  With the  blessing of free speech  , our Country and Constitution  will prevail!  

If anyone here has reason to object please speak out or forever hold your peace. 

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On 11/27/2020 at 5:40 PM, Thumpy said:

I believe it was because the m2 parts are all “bolt on” parts requiring no modifications to the reciver to work? Same way a sear for a mp5 or a dias for a m16 work no modifications to hosts. Or even with reg bolts for uzis you can use them for the most part with no modifications to the reciver of the firearm. I could be wrong that’s just how it was explained to me when I asked.

This is my understanding as well. 

The M2 Carbine is made full auto only by the the addition of seven parts and the replacement of approximately five parts on an M1 Carbine. No changes to the receiver are necessary to make an M1 Carbine full auto. The same goes for a slotted Uzi bolt, an HK sear, or an M16 Drop In Auto Sear or Lightning Link.

Where you run into problems is with a registered part that requires a modification to the host receiver in order to work. An uninstalled AK sear is but one example. You can have the uninstalled registered sear, no problem, but the second you drill the hole in the AK receiver to accommodate it, you've committed a crime.

Again, if the item we are discussing is truly a registered bolt carrier, and it is not already married to and installed in a host firearm, it is, for all intents and purposes, a very expensive and very worthless paperweight. 

I've been doing this stuff as a collector for a while and I have seen some pretty goofy shit out there being sold: unslotted registered Uzi bolts, a Lightning Link welded onto a DIAS, an unbuilt BAR with an approved Form 1...truly some crazy stuff. 

In Liberty,

KristopherH

Edited by MontanaRenegade86

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Lightning Link welded to a DIAS?  Love to see a photo of that.  O.o

Edited by Ryo

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38 minutes ago, Ryo said:

Lightning Link welded to a DIAS?  Love to see a photo of that.  O.o

It was nothing short of a botched abortion. 

The part of the LL that had the serial number was cut and welded to the bottom of an unregistered DIAS. The third party seller got called out and he pulled the listing. 

Most guys in this hobby are very astute when it comes to these things. It's the new guys that might not be aware of the shenanigans that I worry about. Nobody should get in trouble with the ATF because some greedy dickhead was up to no good. 

-KristopherH

ETA: Thought you guys might like to hear this story. It sort of ties in with the gist of this thread.

Several years ago, I was shopping around for my first M2 Carbine and ran across a "registered" M2 Carbine slide. Nothing else, just the slide. At the time I was a new machinegun owner and didn't know very much, so I asked around. The general consensus was that the registered slide was worthless. If the manufacturer had included all of the naughty parts when he registered this thing in the 1980's, it probably would have been kosher, albeit improper, under the "combination of parts" clause of the law. Since it didn't contain any of the other parts, one would have had to have gathered the other seven M2 specific parts, thus creating a very serious situation. Needless to say, I looked elsewhere. 

Edited by MontanaRenegade86

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