taylorwso

Form 3 or Form 4 for SOT with personal weapons?

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I have a dias that I have on a form 4 since before I became a SOT. Now that I'm a SOT can I transfer it out on a form 3?

I'm going with yes after reading the handbook for the tenth time. Can anyone confirm?

 

APPENDIX A NFA, 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53

5852 General transfer and making tax exemption.

(d) Transfers between special (occupational) taxpayers. A firearm registered to a person qualified

under this chapter to engage in business as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer may be transferred by

that person without payment of the transfer tax imposed by section 5811 to any other person qualified

under this chapter to manufacture, import, or deal in that type of firearm.

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Posted (edited)

No you can not unless your FFL is under a Sole Proprietor.  If it is on a Form 4 and your not a Sole Proprietor, you want to transfer it out on a Form 4 to your business and then you can Form 3 it to someone else.

Edited by Ryo
Correcting partially incorrect info.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Ryo said:

No you can not.  It is on a Form 4 so if you want to transfer it out on a Form 3, under your FFL, you need to have it transferred to your business on another Form 4.

Depends on if he's a sole proprietor or not and if the DIAS is owned in his own name or not, ie. in a trust.  IF it's in his own name and he has a sole proprietor FFL/SOT then he can get the DIAS added to his online inventory to do an eForm3 or just file a paper Form 3 and it will transfer without a tax. People sometimes get confused on this based on what form the item transferred in on, but it's irrelevant, it only matters that the same entity is both the registered owner of the FA item and the licensed entity on the FFL/SOT.

Edited by b_san

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16 hours ago, b_san said:

Depends on if he's a sole proprietor or not and if the DIAS is owned in his own name or not, ie. in a trust.  IF it's in his own name and he has a sole proprietor FFL/SOT then he can get the DIAS added to his online inventory to do an eForm3 or just file a paper Form 3 and it will transfer without a tax. People sometimes get confused on this based on what form the item transferred in on, but it's irrelevant, it only matters that the same entity is both the registered owner of the FA item and the licensed entity on the FFL/SOT.

16 hours ago, b_san said:

name and he has a sole proprietor FFL/SOT then he can get the

16 hours ago, b_san said:

Depends on if he's a sole proprietor or not and if the DIAS is owned in his own name or not, ie. in a trust.  IF it's in his own name and he has a sole proprietor FFL/SOT then he can get the DIAS added to his online inventory to do an eForm3 or just file a paper Form 3 and it will transfer without a tax. People sometimes get confused on this based on what form the item transferred in on, but it's irrelevant, it only matters that the same entity is both the registered owner of the FA item and the licensed entity on the FFL/SOT.

17 hours ago, Ryo said:

No you can not.  It is on a Form 4 so if you want to transfer it out on a Form 3, under your FFL, you need to have it transferred to your business on another Form 4.

Yes it is a sole proprietorship and in my name. It would be the same as selling a personally own weapon that I had before the FFL.

What sucks is I cannot get anyone from the ATF to answer a phone or reply to a email about it.

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Again...

Sole proprietor; FFL/SOT Yes, you can transfer form 4 guns out on a PAPER form 3, mailed to ATF in Martinsburg.  

If you want to e-form 3 transfer, you have to add it to your online inventory via a form 5 and email it in. 

FORM 5 instructions...from ATF

#1 Check “OTHER”  and indicate “Inventory Update

#2a – Indicate FFL Name and Address as it appears on the FFL/SOT

You do not need to check any of the boxes underneath of 2a.

#3b- Indicate Individual Name and Address (This is where the approval will be returned) – If your premise address differs from your mailing address please use 3e. and indicate the premise address there and the mailing address in 3b.

#4 – You can indicate “See attachment”

The contents on that attachment must have all the info. as it would be found under # 4 – Manufacturer Name, Type of Firearm, Caliber, Model, Barrel Length, Overall Length and Serial Number.

#5 – Input the FFL and SOT info. for the Sole Prop license.

#7 – Do NOT put any FFL/SOT info. as you did not have this license when you acquired the items.

You do not need to complete the back of the Form 5.

attach a brief letter indicating that you are a Sole Prop. just needing to move your inventory into your Sole Prop license. 

 

 

 

Edited by Frank Iannamico

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2 hours ago, Frank Iannamico said:

If you want to e-form 3 transfer, you have to add it to your online inventory via a PAPER form 5. 

This may or may not be required. I had an MG in my name that I had owned awhile before adding my SOT and was able to get it added to my online inventory by going through the Ask the Experts link on eForms.  I had to email a copy of my F4, FFL/SOT and a written request to add the item to my inventory and it showed up online in around 3 weeks. I then transferred it out to the buyers dealer without any issues.

3 hours ago, taylorwso said:

What sucks is I cannot get anyone from the ATF to answer a phone or reply to a email about it.

Use the Ask the Experts link in the eForms portal.

Edited by b_san

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Thanks guys, awesome info. I knew someone on here would know.

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1 hour ago, b_san said:

This may or may not be required. I had an MG in my name that I had owned awhile before adding my SOT and was able to get it added to my online inventory by going through the Ask the Experts link on eForms.  I had to email a copy of my F4, FFL/SOT and a written request to add the item to my inventory and it showed up online in around 3 weeks. I then transferred it out to the buyers dealer without any issues.

Use the Ask the Experts link in the eForms portal.

I filled out a form 5  along with a list of my guns and emailed it in, as per their instructions, not snail-mailed, sorry. I had "several" personal guns to xfer into my online inventory and had to include a separate sheet listing the guns, with serial numbers etc.

Edited by Frank Iannamico

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I bought my lightning link that way 10

yrs ago.  They guy had it before he became a ffl  it was in his name on a form 4 for about 5 years.  He became a ffl and atf required he run it through his ffl and it transfered on a form 3 in about 2 weeks.  Funny thing it was also approved on the 10th anniversary of 911.  The approval stamp is 9-1-11

But definitely transfers on 3.  even if.you buy something for personal it is on a 3. I tried to buy something on a 4 once and pay the tax and they bounced it back and said I needed to acquire on a 3. You can then log it out to your self personally.  When they did my inspection the ones logged out as personal they did not ask to see.  However don't abuse this if they see 50 pct of your stuff logged out as personal it would be a problem. 

Just my experience

 

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Question: If I were to become a Sole Prop FFL/SOT, would I need to log my personally owned mgs in my bound book?

Also, I would guess my Trust owned goodies would be separate since that is a trust and a trust is not eligible to hold a FFL/SOT.

Sorry to get off point. There is so much great information here. 

-KristopherH

Edited by MontanaRenegade86

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On 9/6/2020 at 9:26 AM, MontanaRenegade86 said:

Question: If I were to become a Sole Prop FFL/SOT, would I need to log my personally owned mgs in my bound book?

Also, I would guess my Trust owned goodies would be separate since that is a trust and a trust is not eligible to hold a FFL/SOT.

Sorry to get off point. There is so much great information here. 

-KristopherH

No need.  Personal item doesn't require to put on the books.

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On 9/6/2020 at 10:26 AM, MontanaRenegade86 said:

Question: If I were to become a Sole Prop FFL/SOT, would I need to log my personally owned mgs in my bound book?

Also, I would guess my Trust owned goodies would be separate since that is a trust and a trust is not eligible to hold a FFL/SOT.

Sorry to get off point. There is so much great information here. 

-KristopherH

On 9/1/2020 at 8:14 AM, Frank Iannamico said:

 

Sole proprietor; FFL/SOT Yes, you can transfer form 4 guns out on a PAPER form 3, mailed to ATF in Martinsburg.  

As stated, NO, BUT you need to keep accurate record of both, especially if you keep them in the same place. I bought another safe just to do that.

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