Johnny Ringo

Mp44 bring back. Dismal info on legalizing it.

Location:

18 posts in this topic

So, my grandfather had a mp44 that was brought back by his brother. Unfortunately, it missed the registration and it seems there's no way to legalize it in any form. Any of you experts (don't guess, assume, or speculate) have any ideas on options?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been there many times liquidating decedents estates.  No good news.

 

You can strip and sell  for parts and surrender the receiver to atf or donate the entire weapon to qualified museum.  Justin Wehring in Texas has such a museum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Johnny Ringo,

I'm no expert but when you say it was "brought back" I'm assuming that the guy was a soldier coming home from Europe.  I have seen posted here several times that capture papers or other documents giving the soldier permission to bring it back (assuming he had permission) are allowed by ATF as de facto registration documents.  Look at EVERY piece of paper you can find in your grandfather's stuff.   You may get lucky.  When we were cleaning out Mom's stuff 5 years ago my sister almost threw out a stack of random papers but decided to look and found a $25,000 life insurance policy stuck in the middle of the random pile.  We found mostly useless stuff but some interesting stuff that she and Dad had accumulated since the 40's.  Sadly we found no MP-44.  Good luck.

Kevin in NC 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah.. you might be screwed.. Are you sure he didn't register it or are you assuming it? Really hate to see the MP44 cut up! 

If you are forced to cut it up, I would be interested in buying it as a parts kit.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ryo said:

Yeah.. you might be screwed.. Are you sure he didn't register it or are you assuming it? Really hate to see the MP44 cut up! 

If you are forced to cut it up, I would be interested in buying it as a parts kit.  

Yeah, I've had the numbers searched, but it's not documented/registered. I've already been in contact with a federal agent friend and atf about it. Doesn't seem there's much I can do. All of my local museums have some of these already. Unfortunately, this one will be turned in.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Johnny Ringo said:

Yeah, I've had the numbers searched, but it's not documented/registered. I've already been in contact with a federal agent friend and atf about it. Doesn't seem there's much I can do. All of my local museums have some of these already. Unfortunately, this one will be turned in.  

If you are interested in donating the gun to a museum there is a small museum with some firearms displays near my parents home in Georgia that might take it. The museum is at Georgia Veterans Park in Cordele Georgia. Its been a long time since I have been in the museum but I do not remember there being any German guns in their displays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Form 10 to a police department would save it....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you 100% sure there isn’t papers some where? Just because you call them to see if a guns has paper work an they say it doesn’t, doesn’t mean there isn’t any papers ? From the looks of it your  you aren't far from Kansas City you should call the WW1 museum an see if they’d take it to save it or if they knew of a museum that needed one to save it. I’d keep looking for paper work man just incase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cut the receiver of the gun in two. Sell the parts kit. Estimated worth is $3k to $4k.

Do not go to the Feds right away. They know you have it and now have to confiscate it. It was in the attic for over 50 Years. It can stay up there for a few more days.

The only way this gun will become legal is captured papers from WWII, Registration at amnesty, or destruction of the receiver.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HOLD ON GUYS! the law is possession not intent! if it never leaves the place it was found, one can determine its not legal and cut it. but remember a conspiracy is 2 or more people discussing an unlawful act . and I assure you there are several screens with these threads open in many federal buildings .  because of the parts value, it needs to be cut and it must be at todays level of destruction. its ok to have an old one saw cut receiver , BUT if its offered for sale the seller is in violation if not destroyed to CURRENT LEVEL ATF has ruled on.

yes it can go to any NON-profit museum, I believe that takes a form 9 ?

no matter what is said and done by any commander or port authority as they did following WW II it will never see the registry. that old miss used thought that a member of armed forces can get it done , comes from the amnesty window and VIETNAM VETS. if they were still in country in active service b-4 the amnesty AND after it closed, when the returned to the states, even as late as 1973 they were entitled to the full benefits. again continuous active duty b-4 and after the amnesty period 


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Thumpy said:

Are you 100% sure there isn’t papers some where? Just because you call them to see if a guns has paper work an they say it doesn’t, doesn’t mean there isn’t any papers ? From the looks of it your  you aren't far from Kansas City you should call the WW1 museum an see if they’d take it to save it or if they knew of a museum that needed one to save it. I’d keep looking for paper work man just incase.

If I recall, some things were not registered correctly.. ie serial # bit off, make and model also screwed up. I think my AM 180 had something screwy on the paperwork, but it was legal registered. 

I remember watching this video from Forgotten Weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fV6M8IAKg&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i know an attorney and old bring back mg collector who deals specifically w/ these issues. PM me if you'd like his contact info.  

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no way to register the gun for private possession if there is no evidence of the serial number in the NFRTR. The receiver is the controlled part of the MP. If you cut up the receiver, all removable parts are not restricted. Remove every part that can be removed and then cut the receiver into four pieces. Torch is preferred but chop saw or hacksaw is acceptable since it is not an import. Once the receiver is cut up the receiver parts are legal to possess as "scrap' and no longer legally a controlled firearm. Careful destruction of the receiver will leave the receiver parts available for a licensed firearms manufacturer to weld the parts back together and build a live post-May sales sample. the continues the "life" of the gun for years to come. It can also be restored as a semi-auto "rifle". Last, the parts are very valuable for shooters to keep their guns operating and for registered examples missing parts to be completed. 

The internals bring high prices especially the op-rod and bolt, stock and complete lower. A complete kit can go as high as $6k on GB.

The likelihood that there is a legitimate CO signed possession certificate for the gun is about 0. It was illegal for GIs to bring back MGs due to the NFA '34. Many did, of course, mailing them back, hiding them and brining them in, etc, etc but mostly filing import paperwork to get them back into the US legally. Many MGs were registered once the guns were in the US since registration was free.  However, after about fifty years involved with vintage MGs, DEWATs, reactivations, sales and MG gunsmithing, I have yet to encounter a legitimate certificate listing an MG. Seen many dozens of certificates for pistols and rifles but so far none for MGs. Not to say that there are mot some but  ATF has not had processed any registrations of an unregistered MGs based on a bringback certificate. They have registered unregistered MGs based on other sources proving that the MGs were legitimately possessed but not certificates. too bad......

Do not turn the complete gun over to ATF. Destroy the receiver and keep or sell the parts. ATF's goal is to make sure that all unregistered MGs are properly kept out of the hands of the crooks and kf your intentions are directed along that path they will generally not bother with it. Destruction and sale of the very valuable parts is a worthy use of the gun to help preserve them for the MG community as noted above. FWIW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding was a lot of guys brought back MGs because of ignorance. "It doesn't have a magazine with it, therefore it's OK. The firing pin was removed, it can't be shot, so it's good." Not right, but that's what people believed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also point out that often, the serial number was not the data furnished on the forms, but another number somewhere on the gun was used.

There are documented cases where even the manyfacturer of weapons has been erroneously put on the forms.

Basically, you are easily looking at $30,000 or more for a complete gun such as this (sight unseen!) so, yes, I would examine every scrap of paper from the estate. Safe deposit boxes??

Good luck!

Okrana

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

In order to utilize a F-10, the museum needs to be run by the government.  Any internet/gun shop commentary on funding sources, etc. are in error.  See 27 CFR 479.104 ("governmental entities").

Same for the captured enemy equipment certificates.  Commonly cited on the web as defacto registration, but to date I have not been able to get anyone claiming that to cite a verifiable example and the process is not in law or regulation anywhere.  Also inquired with two real life gun lawyers (Barnes & Halbrook) who at that time had not seen any such examples.  I have never seen anything that connected War Dept forms issued in overseas regions with Treasury registration in the US.  This myth may be somewhat rooted in truth due to an E TN appeals court case in the 70s (McKeehan) where firearms brought back and subsequently transferred paperless were protected from confiscation.  That concept is not being applied to anyone else. 

Edited by The Lone Ranger
spelling
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no option of lost paperwork. After reading advice from you all, I'll strip it down and just turn in the receiver. Maybe sell off the parts and build a nice rifle my grandfather would be proud of. Something I can pass down to my boy. I appreciate your time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an idea.. though could be a long shot.

Do a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) on your grandfather.  You will have to provide a death certificate. Worst case they will say they have nothing listed for him..

Quote
  • If your request is for information about a deceased individual, you must provide proof of death. Acceptable forms of proof of death include: obituaries, death certificates and other recognized sources that can be documented, i.e. printed media or Social Security Death Index page.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/freedom-information-act-foia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now