ironbb

looking into my First Transferable Machine gun

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Hi i'm not TOTALLY new to getting NFA items i have a 9mm suppressor but i want to get into the fun switch and i actually have enough saved for a MAC, a Sten or a Reising 50 but i kinda want to wait longer and get something a bit bigger like maybe an AK variant or wait longer and go after an M16a1 or MP5 would like some advice from people who have owned Machine guns is it worth it to go big or is the MAC good enough? like i said just looking for some advice based on experience 

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My very first subgun was a mac11. Paid 600 new in the box. What a pile! Cheap plastic mags that jammed and broke all the time. Had andrewski convert it to sten mags. Big improvement but gun was, is cheaply built. Broke the rear of reciever off right away. Welded it back on. Semi quit working right away( didnt care) these guns before 1985 were only 100.00 and thats all their worth in my opinion. The novelty wears off quick when your mag empties in less than 2 seconds . sure you can get slow fire uppers, but its no mp5. If its all you can afford then yes get a mac.

Forget the reisings, as there are no mags available or parts available.

Stens are ok, i own one but mags are real finicky. 

I have several ak47s. Excellent guns and always a crowd pleaser. You cant go wrong, but buy it in 762x39 caliber. 

I have 2 mp5s. The grand daddy of subguns! If you can afford one then yes get it. Thousands of rds through mine with absolutely no problems. 

My recommendation, If you can save more, get a m16. Get hot when shooting?, simply change the upper and keep shooting. Want a beltfed? Change the upper. Tons of different calibers also just by changing uppers. 

It all comes down to budget. If your limited, buy the mac, it will get you by for awhile, but you will get bored with it. 

If you can afford extra, go with the 16. 

 

 

 

 

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 I’d say for your first gun the m10 sten or reising are all great choices. They are all sub 10k an can be found pretty easy. Reising parts are a little hard to find but if you look you’ll find them last month I bought 3 parts kits so they are definitely out there. The reising is a very fun subgun in my opinion semi auto it feels just like a gun you’d take to chase down squirrels an rabbits as a kid flip it to full auto an you get a big ole grin every time. Sten I own one have not shot it because the atf likes to take there sweet time processing forms... my m10 I enjoy a lot the thing shoots at 12-1300 rnds a min. Also with the m10s/m11s there’s a ton of uppers on the market currently an a ton of really cool ones coming out soon I spoke with a man who’s making triggers for them with the semi fullauto and a burst setting burst will be 2,3,4, or 5 rnds depending witch one you want. He’s also making new uppers that take ar and ak mags it will be a game changer. If I was you I’d buy the m10s/m11 first shoot it for a little while as you save more money then when you go to sell it you’ll have what you paid for it plus a little extra and the cash you have saved up to go towards your next. The m10 w a lage upper are what most guys are running at subgun matches even many of the guys running them run them over uzis so that says something. An just know buying machineguns is like a drug... you buy one an before you get your approval you’ll already have your eye on the next!!!! 

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Well i have a good job, Not SUPER NUTS money but enough where i can actually save a good bit and really do this, Been saving for months i have $8,000 saved at the moment BUT with the M16 the sky is actually the limit with customization. The possibility of buying a HK416 upper and making it functionally a Civilian owned 416 (my dreams come true) or like you said almost ANY other Caliber and the only part i can't replace is the part that literally is under 0 pressure and no Real risk of breaking so...looks like i'll have to grit my teeth and keep saving until l get to the number i need. Thanks for the advice 

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Yeah the M10 is Available and i could put down the money and start the process right now and the uppers make it MUCH more attractive i Really get where both of you are coming from honestly the difficult part of all this is the self discipline and not spending money on stupid shit and that literally Every machine gun has pros and cons Macs have affordability and new uppers making them more modern and controllable and while Stens/Reisings are super doable for what they are but costly parts kits and iffy mags are issues while on the other side of it AK's M16's and MP5's are Modern and are still widely in use by LEO armed forces around the world have cheap SUPER Reliable mags and Toms of aftermarket parts readily available the Price is STEEP for these ranging from what i've seen 15-22K thanks for the advice the more i think about it the more i think the longer i am patient and save the more options i will have 

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Another option if you want a sub gun is to save a bit longer and purchase a MP40 tube gun.  Great shooter, very smooth but parts and mags are expensive as a downside.   I am currently waiting (transfer) on a British C&R Sten, and have never fired one, but parts are easy to come by and mags are super cheap.  A real Sten has some collector value, plus parts and ammo are cheap.

If you want a rifle, then save for a M16, which I can't add any more to the discussion then what folks have already pointed out to you.

Most folks don't stop at one but this is an expensive hobby.

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Personally I would save for the M16. But a Mac would not be a mistake. I would get the M11/9. Several uppers available out there that make it very versatile and turn it into a good shooter. And with the Lage M16 upper while not a real M16 is at least a viable option. Where will you find a full auto fully user serviceable  .223 for under 11k. 

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37 minutes ago, JOELCRAMER said:

Personally I would save for the M16. But a Mac would not be a mistake. I would get the M11/9. Several uppers available out there that make it very versatile and turn it into a good shooter. And with the Lage M16 upper while not a real M16 is at least a viable option. Where will you find a full auto fully user serviceable  .223 for under 11k. 

What Joel said. Best advice. 

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Go to a shoot and make the rounds to shoot the different MGs that interest you. MostMG shooters enjoy showing some one their MGs and letting them fire them. Except to pay for ammo but a few minutes of hands-on with any MG is the only real education you can get prior to deciding what you want. Everything else is just an opinion.

If the owners are agreeable talk to them about their experience with reliability, durability, maintenance, spare parts availability and quality, accessories, etc, etc. Ask them to field strip the guns, too if they will take the time. No better way to actually taste what you might own someday.FWIW

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Posted (edited)

39 minutes ago, BRMCII said:

Go to a shoot and make the rounds to shoot the different MGs that interest you. Most MG shooters enjoy showing some one their MGs and letting them fire them. Except to pay for ammo but a few minutes of hands-on with any MG is the only real education you can get prior to deciding what you want. Everything else is just an opinion.

If the owners are agreeable talk to them about their experience with reliability, durability, maintenance, spare parts availability and quality, accessories, etc, etc. Ask them to field strip the guns, too if they will take the time. No better way to actually taste what you might own someday.FWIW

that absolutely sounds like a good idea and honestly the only Truly consistent thing about MG's is the cost of ammo and when i finally get one i'm actually thinking about having an arrangement where if you want to shoot my gun you pay half the ammo cost or something where they don't just start mag dumping whole boxes of ammo and not helping at all i'll absolutely look into that for the experience and honestly for the fun and maybe talk to someone who maybe interested in selling when the time is right 

Edited by ironbb

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4 hours ago, JOELCRAMER said:

Personally I would save for the M16. But a Mac would not be a mistake. I would get the M11/9. Several uppers available out there that make it very versatile and turn it into a good shooter. And with the Lage M16 upper while not a real M16 is at least a viable option. Where will you find a full auto fully user serviceable  .223 for under 11k. 

solid point concerning the new Uppers which Really adds Value to the M11 (and making it more expensive)

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1st mg?  then I'll rec' a M11/9 or and Uzi and be done with it for now. If you get the Mac then count on buying a Lage upper now. The gun sucks without it. 

next up the ladder  ? go with a converted AR15 - as I assume you are looking at shooter grade guns and not wall-hangers/safe queens.

 

I dont see a lot of downside in the above recs.

If you can make it to OFASTS in June ...you are welcome to shoot all the stuff you may want. Line spot 41 but holler at5 me ahead of time bc I usually dont bring a lot of SMGs to that shoot as its more of a beltfed thang. Anyway...open invitation to you.

Welcome to MG world.

 

 

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My 2 cents,  if you can afford it, start with an M16.


-- Matt

 

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I got my start with an UZI.  Cheap to shoot, plenty of parts.  Iconic gun, will always have a good following.  Plus you get to buy a shirt that says "UZI Does it.." without being a poser.  Make sure and buy a registered receiver, not a bolt gun if you go down that path.  

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THIS thread is putting my limited ability to remain neutral and only pass the facts to the extreme test.  all these toys are great and the joy's unlimited no matter what you choose. if the bug bites after your first choice, its likely you will end up with at least 2 maybe 3 in the herd and that's when it gets really serious but you will be more prepared. my tastes run the same in all things , things need to look and taste like what drew me to them in the first place . muscle cars with auto trans ? not in my garage. WW II mgs with pic rails and AR folding stocks not on my wall.    I understand why folks like the LAGE uppers but they are not for me. one of my 60's is an E-6 but I hate to use it, too many sharp edges and things in the way so I only shoot the one in the original configuration. again  my personal opinion on that has no place here because you are trying to get started and not shoot your self in the foot with the wrong choice. a new player will choose from 3 main types, subgun , assault rifle, belt fed.  now do you want just a shooter in each or a little more . so the 3 types have at least 2 things to consider, the "shooter" will cost less, be easier to find , while the "collectable shooter" will cost more and a harder search.  in subguns the M-11/9 is in a class all its own I have 2 but never use them because of the damned magazines! and they will certainly go when I have time to deal with all the emails and pic requests. my number one is a reg'td receiver UZI , next would be the REISING, then a GOOD MAC 10.  all the others are good choices for the second subgun. ASSAULT RIFLE ? M-16 ,BM-59,FNC sear, HK-sear. all the .223 guns getting expensive and too close in cost so a HARD search for a deal on a M-16 is well spent these days . I bought 2 NIB BM-59's at auction last year under $10k and deals are still possible. at full retail not in the chase. in belt fed the 1919 if you don't want to mess with a W/C is top dog. if W/C fits, I prefer the Vickers. the past 4 years fantastic deals way under a 17 have been easy and common but at the same money pretty much equal.  the units I suggested when clean with good ammo and support equipment will run all day and be tons of fun. at the big shoots, I find it disgusting how much people have to "fiddle" with drop in AR sears, Hk sears not tuned to the gun, stens with bad mags etc. as always there are exceptions to the rule and many manage to stick with it and work things out. but over all solid good examples of systems with proven parts is the way to fly and avoid grief . over the years , many of the new people have so much trouble they don't come back and the guns just sit until finally dumped to someone else.  CHEERS! 


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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My first machine gun was a Vector RR Uzi. Reliable, cheap to feed, mags are plentiful, parts are plentiful, and you can make it into different calibers if you chose-9mm, 22lr, 45acp are all common calibers for an Uzi. 

I agree with others that you’ll have more than one machine gun LOL with having $8,000 saved up, sure you could buy a MAC but you’ll have another $2,000-$3,000 in it to have it what you want.....well you are now in Uzi Range....and you don’t have to tune or tweak it much (if at all) 

Ive been kicking around selling my M16 to buy an HK sear as it would fill the role better than my M16 does now. You have to decide what’s best for you and your wallet.

Good luck as Class III ownership isn’t a hobby.....it’s a disease and there isn’t a Gov’t subsidized study or rehab for it lol

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when considering what you want or advising folks on what they want, remember there is a huge variation out there. some folks only want the cream of the crop and don't want to fiddle. maybe just the current or recent issue's.  certainly many of the weapon systems in the registry wont appeal to everyone and are meant for folks that want a little something more than noise. one of my FAV's is the JAP type 11 but no way would I advise a first time buyer to even consider it. the BREDA-30 has one of the worst raps in the trade, and almost all suffered from no use, care and are in bad condition. but when you see one in excellent condition, you will not believe the machine work , complexity and its profile. a few came in from museums and in calibers that don't need an oiled round. they run like a watch and never fail to gather a crowd at shoots. still not for everyone or the best choice for an off the charts weapon. the BRITISH PORTIVE if not messed with and correct will shoot all day and all night and never stutter is as well made as anything out there and all the parts are 4 times heavier than needed. until recently one of the lowest cost machine rifles possible. I know several that its their only machine gun. again I would never suggest it to a first timer.


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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I started out with a H&K MP5.. Love that SMG.  I ran it with HST and it blasted my money away like it was nothing.

For versatility, you can't beat the M16 (or legally AR-15 MG for a slightly lower cost). If you plan to only get on.. I'd follow everyone else on this and get the M16.  I think right now is a good time to look into it since it looked like value was dipping pretty badly at the end of 2019.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you EVERYONE for the Advice and i'm seeing a lot of Solid suggestions and i'm actually headed to the SOT in a Few hours to get Rolling on a MAC 11 and i'm planning on having it enjoying the SHIT out of it and while enjoying it Save my money Save some and after Saving Save just a touch more after that then Sell the MAC and grab my Dream an M-16 and you can bet i'm gonna Deck it out with all the cool stuff (because who keeps a REAL one Stock?) it's gonna HURT knowing all that money is gonna Vanish but i'm gonna be happy as fuck knowing that i can have a Real Deal MG and i'm not even 30 yet ;) (28)

Edited by ironbb

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Congratulations - enjoy your first of many MGs!!!

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Lots of good suggestions!  After lots of full autos over 10 years I really lean toward firearms that can be dependably converted to .22 rim fire.  Cheaper to shoot and quieter suppressed generally.  That pretty much limits one to UZI, M16, MAC.  Of those three UZI converts best.

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Posted (edited)

On 6/6/2020 at 7:50 AM, davester said:

Lots of good suggestions!  After lots of full autos over 10 years I really lean toward firearms that can be dependably converted to .22 rim fire.  Cheaper to shoot and quieter suppressed generally.  That pretty much limits one to UZI, M16, MAC.  Of those three UZI converts best.

I'm addicted to .22lr MGs and conversions.  As was pointed out, the UZI converts the easiest, but my funnest .22lr conversion is for my '28 Thompson.  It was fit to my '28 by PK back in 2010.  According to Paul, it was one of the very first BDM kits manufactured.  The ROF is very slow, around 600 RPM.  It runs clean and I can run 1000-1200 rounds before a cleaning is needed.  You can't beat that.

SN150715.jpg

SN150716.jpg

Paul fit an original AO .22lr magazine adapter and I use original AO 30 round steel magazines.  They work perfectly.

SN150719.jpg

SN150722.jpg

Paul's marking.

IMG-2429.jpg

Here is how the kit was delivered to me.

SN150748.jpg

Edited by pstidan
I'm spelling challenged.

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Welp it's DONE i just bought a MAC 11 with a .380 upper/Bolt 9mm upper/Bolt and a LAGE MK2 upper with a AR-15 buffer tube and Magpul CTR Butt stock and a 3 lug barrel Ready for a supressor 10 Magazines both Sten and Mac and a super nice carrying bag for 10K how'd i do? :)

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Enjoy your new smg. They are a blast. 

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That was a good choice. You know you could always save just a little more and grab the Lage 11/15 upper and scratch that 5.56 urge for $3k instead of an extra $20k. As thumpy mentioned before TheRedneckEngineer is coming out w the Ultimac which should give even more versatility then the Lage (because of utilizing interchangeable magwell), but he’s starting w the M10 first then moving onto the m11. I’m in the same boat as you. I have what would be a REALLY awesome AR host, that I’m dying to get a lightning link for, and I originally got a Mac thinking I’d someday sell it and upgrade. Here’s the thing, after seeing and shooting the Mac for awhile, and getting all the upgrades, .22 upper, Lage uppers, multiple caliber swaps, and all of the other things that are in the works for them, I could never be mac-less. I like them so much I went and bought a second one. Ones going to wear an ultimac and stay configured as an assault rifle, and the other will stay as a smg. I’ll tell you this... I think the Macs currently have more room to increase value wise more then about ANY other mg you could buy (ultra rare high end 1 of 1 six figure guns excluded). 

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1 hour ago, challenger70rt said:

That was a good choice. You know you could always save just a little more and grab the Lage 11/15 upper and scratch that 5.56 urge for $3k instead of an extra $20k. As thumpy mentioned before TheRedneckEngineer is coming out w the Ultimac which should give even more versatility then the Lage (because of utilizing interchangeable magwell), but he’s starting w the M10 first then moving onto the m11. I’m in the same boat as you. I have what would be a REALLY awesome AR host, that I’m dying to get a lightning link for, and I originally got a Mac thinking I’d someday sell it and upgrade. Here’s the thing, after seeing and shooting the Mac for awhile, and getting all the upgrades, .22 upper, Lage uppers, multiple caliber swaps, and all of the other things that are in the works for them, I could never be mac-less. I like them so much I went and bought a second one. Ones going to wear an ultimac and stay configured as an assault rifle, and the other will stay as a smg. I’ll tell you this... I think the Macs currently have more room to increase value wise more then about ANY other mg you could buy (ultra rare high end 1 of 1 six figure guns excluded). 

 

Oooo.. this sounds interesting.  Though the 5.56 urge bottom line prices I've seen is $16k.  Still expensive.. but not in the 25k zone.

Do you have any links for this mod he's doing?

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Looks like you made a good choice to get you started.  It's fun.. and hard to stop buying.  

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Ryo said:

 

Oooo.. this sounds interesting.  Though the 5.56 urge bottom line prices I've seen is $16k.  Still expensive.. but not in the 25k zone.

Do you have any links for this mod he's doing?

Best bet is to check the old uzitalk threads. Here is the original link. It’s like nearly 50 pages deep. I’m not clear on which m11 you bought but you mentioned a .380 upper, which makes me think it’s one of the “baby” Macs? So to my knowledge, Lage has 5.56 uppers for sale for the 11/9 currently available to ship. They’re $3k. He also has designs for the same thing pending for the M11A1 (which is I’m guessing what you would need) as well as the M10 currently pending ATF tech branch approval. There’s also the A&S Tenko pending ATF, which is an adapter to let a Mac use an out of the box AR-15 upper. And finally the “Ultimac” design which is also being developed that I mentioned earlier, w interchangeable mag wells. I’m actually a big fan of that design myself and am actually supposed to start Beta testing that one later this month and will be posting videos and reviews and such. I’ll leave you links for all three. It’s interesting reading material. 
 

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?84842-M11-15-Prototype&highlight=Lage

 

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?91848-The-UltiMac-a-modular-Mac-upper.

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?90156-A-Sad-Update-For-The-Tenko-10-16

Edited by challenger70rt

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That is so awesome.. 

Don't have a MAC.. but this will make me want one. 

I remember MGI suppose to make one for the AR platform but never saw it happen. This would be amazing. 

Look forward to your testing. I'm assuming you'll post it on uzitalk forum? I'd very much like to follow the progress. 

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Posted (edited)

On 5/10/2020 at 10:28 PM, ironbb said:

Hi i'm not TOTALLY new to getting NFA items i have a 9mm suppressor but i want to get into the fun switch and i actually have enough saved for a MAC, a Sten or a Reising 50 but i kinda want to wait longer and get something a bit bigger like maybe an AK variant or wait longer and go after an M16a1 or MP5 would like some advice from people who have owned Machine guns is it worth it to go big or is the MAC good enough? like i said just looking for some advice based on experience 

 

23 hours ago, ironbb said:

Welp it's DONE i just bought a MAC 11 with a .380 upper/Bolt 9mm upper/Bolt and a LAGE MK2 upper with a AR-15 buffer tube and Magpul CTR Butt stock and a 3 lug barrel Ready for a supressor 10 Magazines both Sten and Mac and a super nice carrying bag for 10K how'd i do? :)

Yo, you did the right  thing. 

My first was  Gordon Ingram & I still shoot it , fantastic fun...

All American Made .

Just doesn't get any better for your  first love.

The cost of ammo outweighs the initial investment, for me by 10 times or more with relentless reliability...M10/45, many available parts and accessories. 

Also recommend while you're waiting,  read "The Mac Man"

Frank Iannamico & Don Thomas 

Edited by Born loser...in Montana
+

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16 hours ago, LTSWA said:

That is so awesome.. 

Don't have a MAC.. but this will make me want one. 

I remember MGI suppose to make one for the AR platform but never saw it happen. This would be amazing. 

Look forward to your testing. I'm assuming you'll post it on uzitalk forum? I'd very much like to follow the progress. 

Yes.. will be posting to UT, youtube, 

Reddit /NFA, snugbus, probably here. Pretty much to anyone that’ll listen LoL. I’m just starting w an AR/M16 mag well and later an AK but I know he plans on eventually having mag wells for a myriad of options. Suomi, glock, Thompson, uzi, AK74, you get the idea. If everything goes well it’s gonna make Macs ridiculously versatile. It should accommodate basically any caliber that you can do in an M16 w the added benefit of magazine modularity too. 

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Later this month I’ll be at OFASTS mg shoot. The redneckengineer is in our crew on line spots 43-45. I think he’s bringing his UltiMac devices and we’ll have a few Macs ( M10  and M11/9) there to beta test and fiddle with. 
 

drop by if you like. Our spot will have an “ XrayGuns” flag hanging on it.

like y’all I greatly look fwd to the versatility of his Mac upper !

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I’ll see ya there! Looking forward to it!

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Wish I could be there. 

Look forward to new news.

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Just my .02

The MAC11 is a .380 caliber submachine gun made by the original MAC Corp, RPB and SWD.

The 9mm M11/Nine technically is not a MAC 11, SWD made them, not the Military Armament Corp. Referring to an M11/Nine as a MAC 11 causes a lot of confusion. BTW when introduced in the 1980s the SWD M11/Nine had a retail price of $165.00; many of them were originally made as semi-pistols, but SWD converted them into submachine guns. 

MAC MAN book (plug) Chapter 10 page 315

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/inventory/detail.item.cfm?product_id=30 

  

10-8.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Thank you Frank.. That was a really interesting information on the history of the M11/9.

 

Side question.. I was trying to figure out what is the best to get, M11/380, M11/9 or M11A1 if going with a Lage.  Sounded like currently the M11/9 had more options than the M11/380 (plus 380 has 2 grip sizes). M11A1 sounded like it has a better feel/hold (Ivan from Forgotten Weapons mention liking the M11A1 more and how Lage will make stuff for them).  Then there are the modders that replaced the grip with a Glock style grip and uses Glock mags (don't know which "MAC" he used).

I would have bought a M11/9 if it wasn't sold before I inquired about it. Doh. 

Edited by Ryo

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